Interpretive Guides on the Hoosier State Starting 11/27/16

I am the Executive Director of a group called the APRHF Rail Rangers... we are a NON-PROFIT rail history group that provides educational programs on private rail excursions. I am happy to announce after about 6 months of planning we struck a deal with Ed Ellis, Iowa Pacific, and INDOT to provide our programs on select Sunday mornings on the Hoosier Train between Lafayette, IN and Chicago, IL. We begin our efforts on November 27th and will run a couple of times per month. We will still mainly do private rail excursions -- but this is the first time we are on a public train since breaking away from Trails & Rails last summer. We have 10 Interpretive Guides in the program and will likely expand that number soon.

Here is the scoop:

http://www.aprhf.org/2016/10/31/aprhf-rail-rangers-riding-the-hoosier-rails-program-launches-november-27-2016/

We also launched:

http:///www.hoosierrails.org

Again, while our non-profit is running this -- we are not making any money off of it (hence non-profit!) -- and I have absolutely no personal gain what-so-ever in this (had to make that clear so certain moderators on here don't delete or move this thread) -- but just want to get the word out and invite all of our AU friends to come and ride with us an learn about Indiana and Illinois history on a public train. It will be a fun time!

Our group used to run Trails & Rails on the Texas Eagle CHI-STL (1999-2004), Empire Builder CHI-MSP (2005-2010), and Southwest Chief CHI-LAP (2012-2015). We broke away from Trails & Rails and started our own outreach efforts in July 2015 called the APRHF Rail Rangers.

While I have not yet experienced your program, I have almost always enjoyed the various Trails and Rails presentations, as I am one who is most interested in what is going on (or was going on at one time) outside the window. Hopefully it will quickly succeed and you will be facing a Lounge crammed with pax eager to learn!

rtabern said:

I am the Executive Director of a group called the APRHF Rail Rangers... we are a NON-PROFIT rail history group that provides educational programs on private rail

Again, while our non-profit is running this -- we are not making any money off of it (hence non-profit!) -- and I have absolutely no personal gain what-so-ever in this (had to make that clear so certain moderators on here don't delete or move this thread) -- but just want to get the word out and invite all of our AU friends to come and ride with us an learn about Indiana and Illinois history on a public train. It will be a fun time!

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I'm just curious as to why you wouldn't expect a moderator to move this since it is in the Amtrak forum and the Hoosier State is not an Amtrak train, nor or is it operated by Amtrak. While it does have an Amtrak T&E crew, so does a MetroLink train...which we'd update in the commuter forum.

I'd be more surprised if certain moderators DIDN'T move it.

I've found the route guides to be a mixed bunch. Many seem to think they can give a good speech without actually having any public speaking experience. Rattling off rambling topics of arbitrary value does not a presentation make. That being said, I found Eva J. Hoffman's presentation to be a very enjoyable experience. She's the lady who wrote the flashing yellow route guides for those who are unaware. Her delivery wasn't perfect but her selection of historical topics and cultural curiosities was top rate. Many of her stories seemed to be based on uncorroborated oral histories, so I wouldn't expect them to hold up to any sustained scrutiny, but she did a great job of adding a bit of local flavor to the already amazingly scenic journey of the CZ.

Devil's Advocate said:

I've found the route guides to be a mixed bunch. Many seem to think they can give a good speech without actually having any public speaking experience. Rattling off rambling topics of arbitrary value does not a presentation make. That being said, I found Eva J. Hoffman's presentation to be a very enjoyable experience. She's the lady who wrote the flashing yellow route guides for those who are unaware. Her delivery wasn't perfect but her selection of historical topics and cultural curiosities was top rate. Many of her stories seemed to be based on uncorroborated oral histories, so I wouldn't expect them to hold up to any sustained scrutiny, but she did a great job of adding a bit of local flavor to the already amazingly scenic journey of the CZ.

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I have been doing onboard programs for more than a decade now... including holding down management-level roles in these groups... and totally agree with you Devil's Advocate. Some folks can be really good... and some folks can be really bad. It's sorta just the nature of the beast though I guess. A few Trails & Rails programs on the Empire Builder through ND and MT have actually stopped running in recent years because of a lack of qualified docents. Some Trails & Rails groups will pretty much just let anyone in too... regardless of public speaking ability and a travel background... because they need warm bodies to do the programs... especially when the start city is extremely remote or low populated. It's much harder for a Trails & Rails group to get 20 good docents in Minot, ND than it would be Chicago, California, Seattle, New York, or Washington, DC.

Luckily, for the Rail Rangers we use Chicago-based volunteers and really have the "cream of the crop" I like to think in our group now. The APRHF co-sponsored a Trails & Rails program on the Southwest Chief from Chicago to La Plata, MO from December 2012 to July 2015... I was the Chicago Coordinator of that group... we had about 40 docents involved. When we spun off and started our own onboard interpretive programs last summer, we only needed 10 Interpretive Guides. We really got to pick the best 10 out of Trails & Rails and do some "weeding out" of the questionable folks. We have been providing our services (until now) on private railcar excursions. You can't have "bad" docents on an excursion where people are paying top dollar and expect excellent service. I am proud to say all 5 of our private railcar partners who gave our services a try -- have invited us back to become permanent fixtures on many of their trips. In fact, Mr. Ellis heard our program and liked us so much he asked me to develop this program for the Hoosier. We have been working one-on-one with him directly.

Eva is great! She is a friend of mine and helped us to develop this program.

http://www.rtabern.com/book/2015-ALLAUTHORS.jpg

Since I know you ( never had the pleasure of meeting your better half) and have ridden many miles on LD Trains with Trails and Rails Rangers, I wish you all the best with your new endeavour and look forward to riding the IP Hoosier to experience yall's presentations! ( In the Summer of course! )

Thirdrail7 said:

I'm just curious as to why you wouldn't expect a moderator to move this since it is in the Amtrak forum and the Hoosier State is not an Amtrak train, nor or is it operated by Amtrak. While it does have an Amtrak T&E crew, so does a MetroLink train...which we'd update in the commuter forum.

I'd be more surprised if certain moderators DIDN'T move it.

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Except you can't see and search a Metrolink schedule on Amtrak.com, nor is the full Metrolink schedule printed in the National Timetable. You can't buy a Metrolink ticket on Amtrak.com, nor through the Amtrak 1800 number/Julie. Except for using your AGR credit card, you receive no AGR points for buying a Metrolink ticket or pass. You certainly can't redeem your AGR points for a Metrolink ticket or pass. You can do all those things for the Hoosier State.

Amtrak holds out to the world -- or the American traveling public, to be less flowery -- that the Hoosier State is an Amtrak train.

I consider the Hoosier State an Amtrak train in same sense that the Piedmonts are Amtrak trains. Amtrak provides the operating crews and fully integrates the train into the Amtrak reservation system and timetables. The train equipment and on-board services are provided by others.

John Bredin said:

Thirdrail7 said:

I'm just curious as to why you wouldn't expect a moderator to move this since it is in the Amtrak forum and the Hoosier State is not an Amtrak train, nor or is it operated by Amtrak. While it does have an Amtrak T&E crew, so does a MetroLink train...which we'd update in the commuter forum.

I'd be more surprised if certain moderators DIDN'T move it.

Click to expand...

Except you can't see and search a Metrolink schedule on Amtrak.com, nor is the full Metrolink schedule printed in the National Timetable. You can't buy a Metrolink ticket on Amtrak.com, nor through the Amtrak 1800 number/Julie. Except for using your AGR credit card, you receive no AGR points for buying a Metrolink ticket or pass. You certainly can't redeem your AGR points for a Metrolink ticket or pass. You can do all those things for the Hoosier State.

Amtrak holds out to the world -- or the American traveling public, to be less flowery -- that the Hoosier State is an Amtrak train.

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Except, this board is supposedly better than that. To put it another way, Amtrak dispatches, maintains, staffs, operates and sells tickets for the MARC PENN Line. They also store, service and position the MARC Camden and Brunswick line trains....yet, I wouldn't think about discussing their operations or similar operations that occur with the Amtrak staffed Shore Line East Service in this forum merely because Amtrak supports or cross honors them.

I kind of remember the former ACES train being available on Amtrak.com, with Amtrak agents selling their tickets and the schedule being cross referenced in the timetables. The train operated entirely on Amtrak between NYP-Shore and then operated on an Amtrak Line (ACY) that is being leased by NJT. Yet, we always considered it a NJT operation.

That being said, the moderator has spoken:

PRR 60 said:

I consider the Hoosier State an Amtrak train in same sense that the Piedmonts are Amtrak trains. Amtrak provides the operating crews and fully integrates the train into the Amtrak reservation system and timetables. The train equipment and on-board services are provided by others.

Click to expand...

Truthfully, I considered the Piedmonts to be the equivalent to the MARC and Shore Line East services. I didn't really consider them "Amtrak" trains.

I guess you indeed learn something new everyday. The next time a MARC train breaks down, I know where to post.

Thirdrail7 said:

..

That being said, the moderator has spoken:

PRR 60 said:

I consider the Hoosier State an Amtrak train in same sense that the Piedmonts are Amtrak trains. Amtrak provides the operating crews and fully integrates the train into the Amtrak reservation system and timetables. The train equipment and on-board services are provided by others.

Click to expand...

Truthfully, I considered the Piedmonts to be the equivalent to the MARC and Shore Line East services. I didn't really consider them "Amtrak" trains.

I guess you indeed learn something new everyday. The next time a MARC train breaks down, I know where to post.

Click to expand...

Amtrak seems to think that both the Hoosier State and the Piedmonts are Amtrak train services. The ridership of both services is included as part of Amtrak ridership. The ticket revenue is included as Amtrak ticket revenue. When I look down the list of trains, riders, revenue, route and on-time performance in Amtrak's monthly reporting, I find data for both the Hoosier State and the Piedmonts. I don't find MARC or Shore Line East.

So, if you feel strongly that the Hoosier State and the Piedmonts are not really Amtrak trains, your argument is with the Amtrak suits, not us. Who are we to argue with Amtrak management?

Thirdrail7 said:

Truthfully, I considered the Piedmonts to be the equivalent to the MARC and Shore Line East services. I didn't really consider them "Amtrak" trains.

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My rule of thumb would be if I can book a ticket on a train at Amtrak.com, then it's an Amtrak train. That I can do to Lafayette, IN (even on days the Cardinal doesn't run) and to Kanapolis, NC via a Piedmont, but not to Brunswick, MD.

Is there really much to describe to the rider's of the Hoosier State?

I mean one cornfield looks like any other....

Just kidding...I know there's a lot more to it then that.

Congratulations on achieving your new contract!

PaulM said:

Thirdrail7 said:

Truthfully, I considered the Piedmonts to be the equivalent to the MARC and Shore Line East services. I didn't really consider them "Amtrak" trains.

Click to expand...

My rule of thumb would be if I can book a ticket on a train at Amtrak.com, then it's an Amtrak train. That I can do to Lafayette, IN (even on days the Cardinal doesn't run) and to Kanapolis, NC via a Piedmont, but not to Brunswick, MD.

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That thumb needs to become more nuanced I'd say. I can book a ticket on an NJ Transit train from Philadelphia to Atlantic City, indeed even the train is identified as "NJ Transit Train" in the Amtrak reservation system. Merely the fact that a ticket can be purchased for it on amtrak.com does not really make it an Amtrak train at all.

Perhaps amend PaulM's rule of thumb to read something like "if I can book a ticket on a train at Amtrak.com, then it's either an Amtrak train or a Thruway service"

railiner said:

Is there really much to describe to the rider's of the Hoosier State?

I mean one cornfield looks like any other....

Just kidding...I know there's a lot more to it then that.

Congratulations on achieving your new contract!

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I think there's a battlefield near the route (don't know exactly where, near Lafayette).

And just remember, there's more than corn, in Indiana....

Sorry, whenever I think about cornfield's in Indiana, I am reminded of that classic crop duster scene, in Hitchcock's "North By Northwest"

Metra Electric is referring to a commercial that used to run every summer on Chicago TV inviting folks to visit an amusement park somewhere in North Central Indiana.

Metra Electric Rider said:

railiner said:

Is there really much to describe to the rider's of the Hoosier State?

I mean one cornfield looks like any other....

Just kidding...I know there's a lot more to it then that.

Congratulations on achieving your new contract!

Click to expand...

I think there's a battlefield near the route (don't know exactly where, near Lafayette).

And just remember, there's more than corn, in Indiana....

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There is always a lot out there if one learns the route. My wife and I designed the Trails and Rails program from Chicago to La Plata, MO. Amtrak and the NPS asked what is out there besides corn fields you want to talk about. My response was to write a 350 page route guidebook for the Chief through IL, IA, and MO. It has sold 2,000 copies since May 2013 and we were allowed to do our program (until last summer when Trails & Rails management flipped out in the wake of the Philly derailment and put so many insane restrictions on volunteers no one wanted to keep doing the program... so we founded our own educational group called Rail Rangers).

We wrote a 110 page route guide book (brand new!) for the Chicago to Indy route.

Yes... Tippecanoe Battlefield is seen just north of Lafayette.

Come ride with us... Train #851. Select Sunday morning trips. Schedule up at www.hoosierrails.org

jis said:

PaulM said:

Thirdrail7 said:

Truthfully, I considered the Piedmonts to be the equivalent to the MARC and Shore Line East services. I didn't really consider them "Amtrak" trains.

Click to expand...

My rule of thumb would be if I can book a ticket on a train at Amtrak.com, then it's an Amtrak train. That I can do to Lafayette, IN (even on days the Cardinal doesn't run) and to Kanapolis, NC via a Piedmont, but not to Brunswick, MD.

Click to expand...

That thumb needs to become more nuanced I'd say. I can book a ticket on an NJ Transit train from Philadelphia to Atlantic City, indeed even the train is identified as "NJ Transit Train" in the Amtrak reservation system. Merely the fact that a ticket can be purchased for it on amtrak.com does not really make it an Amtrak train at all.

Click to expand...

Same thing's true for ACE Commuter trains between San Jose and Stockton.

MikefromCrete said:

Metra Electric is referring to a commercial that used to run every summer on Chicago TV inviting folks to visit an amusement park somewhere in North Central Indiana.

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At Indianaaaa Beeeeach! On Beautiful Shafer's Lake...

(Also on Central Indiana TV)

I prefer fun at "Prairie Stop, Highway 41"