Does Amtrak know how trains work?

Good article on one of Amtrak's odd boarding processes...

http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2013/07/10/_.html

There are so many security issues that are not addressed in this article. If people were allowed to just wander around the platforms in Chicago and any big city, it would not make it easier to get on the train, it would make it worse. The crowding around the trains would be impossible, Comparing Amtrak trains to commuter trains is not right as most commuter trains have the name of the train on it somewhere or there is only one that leaves from a specific platform the same each day. The Amtrak trains do not always end up on the same tracks in Chicago, so having signage that lists the train would have to change constantly. It is much like an airport yes, because trains come into different tracks and there is only one door to get to that track. Letting you wander around the platforms will not help you get to your train any quicker.

Plus unfortunately, there are people who would try to jump on a train without a ticket and hide in a bathroom for instance to get from one place to another without paying. Plus there are terrorist around that without having the tickets checked, would be able to just walk onto any train and do major damage. Have a train blow up when it arrives into a large station that can have hundreds of people if not thousands of people if you add the commuters at rush hour, would be devastating.

how does a 2 second glance at a ticket prevent a terrorist from getting on a train?

I actually think that the article makes a very good point or two at least as it applies to Washington Union Station. It has the most rediculous boarding procedure that is wasteful of both time and space and also of resources and really archives none of its alleged goals. It really is time to rethink it completely. Just IMHO of course

I, for the most part, agree with this article. There's no reason why passengers can't wait on the platform or walk to the train on their own. The boards already list which gate the train is leaving from, so that can just change that to track and have people get on board via track instead of gate.

A terrorist could, in theory, walk on a train, and someone could just hide in the bathroom, but almost every other rail agency has figured out how to handle that with passengers being on the platform. Heck, commuter rail agencies allow people to wait on the platform, and they go into the same stations as Amtrak does.

Frankly, the boarding procedure in Chicago annoys me. Just let me walk out to the track listed on the board like I can for Metra.

(Note that I have not boarded anywhere on the east coast, hence my use of Chicago as the example.)

I have to agree that the Amtrak boarding system is pathetic. Passengers are treated like dumb sheep. If I were a terrorist, I would probably buy a ticket and try to blend in... yeah, lets hope they never think of that!

All over the world passengers buy tickets, find their trains, and get on trains by themselves. Maybe us Amtrak passengers need more looking after, who knows?

Ed

williamn said:

how does a 2 second glance at a ticket prevent a terrorist from getting on a train?

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It doesn't. Never did and never will. Quite amazing that there are some people out there that think it does.

June the Coach Rider said:

Plus there are terrorist around that without having the tickets checked, would be able to just walk onto any train and do major damage. Have a train blow up when it arrives into a large station that can have hundreds of people if not thousands of people if you add the commuters at rush hour, would be devastating.

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This doesn't make sense. They don't check tickets in Kalamazoo and other intermediate stations, so it would be just as easy for someone to hop on in Kalamazoo and blow up the train in Chicago. That's the point of the article; some cities don't check tickets, so it's kind of pointless to get all terrorist-happy concerning the big cities. That would be like having the TSA at ORD and MDW but not at AZO or GRR.

You can also board Metra trains without the kindergarten walk, as Jeb mentioned, so it doesn't make any sense that Amtrak trains, which board on the exact same concourses, aren't "open" like the Metra trains. So, again, it has nothing to do with security.

They have perfectly good signage next to all of the tracks along with monitors displaying all of the routes and gates, so they could switch "gate" to "track" on the monitors to help people find their train.

I agree that the Boarding Procedures in WAS and CHI need to be Modernized and made to Work Better! Nanny like Safety Procedures and "Security" Theater that Acomphlishes Nothing are a Waste of Time and Money!

This method ... also involves overcrowding of the interior of the station.

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So I guess the writer's answer is to overcrowd the platforms instead!
At stations like Metropark, BWI, FLG, SDY, GJT, MKA, etc..., you can wait on the platform because there is (most times) only one train at a time. But at WAS, unless the regional is arriving from VA, should you stand next to the regional on track 16 or track 12? And should you stand on the platform for the Acela on track 20 or track 15? And is First Class at the front or back of the train? (Yes, they do say in the Club Acela, but I'm surprised by the few passengers that use it. I've spent a lot of time there - like from 1 pm to closing at 9:30 pm, and some trains have less than 5 passengers go out to board!)

And as was said, in CHI will the CZ be on track 24 or 27 today? The TE also departs about the same time.

My opinion is don't go looking for a problem to the answer.

Another thread on this forum has an article about a man who built a gun out of materials he bought after the security checkpoint. There's a great quote in that article... "If we're trying stop a terrorist threat at the airport, it's already too late." The same is true for train stations or bus terminals.

It boils down to this: Amtrak needs to stop kidding the public... this isn't about terrorism.

the_traveler gives a good explanation of the only logical reason I've heard for the gates and the kindergarten walk... WAS, NYP and CHI have small platforms. I can completely understand why Amtrak does not want a platform packed full of impatient passengers waiting for a Northeast Regional train... and having passengers who are arriving on said having to fight their way onto the platform.

Personally, I prefer to sit down in the station until it's time to board, instead of standing on the platform to wait for my train. I'd just prefer that Amtrak get rid the gates and simply make a boarding call... saying that passengers can now board train xxx on track xxx.

If I'd be a terrorist i would blow up a french TGV, a german ICE or perhaps a russian Sapsan or an indian Rajdhani, or eventually a commuter train around NYC (wait, no, they do the job already by themselves) but certainly not the EB, CZ or SWC.

Also the whole toilet trick does not really work, not on a TGV, and not on an american train. You are very likely to get in trouble if you try this in Europe.

If you want to see narrow, overcrowded platforms, just have a look at your average swiss or dutch train station. There trains have a capacity of around 1000 passengers and the average station stop is just between 3 and 5 minutes which is enough to get up to 1000 people off and another 1000 people on the train (the average number is probably around 400).

If you watch old railroad movies that's how they boarded. I recall a starlet hanging around a 1940's NYP trying to board a PRR train to Florida, flirting with rich men as an agent checked their names and their tickets. It's how you board a flight. Perhaps the writer of this article would rather have people run onto the tarmac to try and locate their planes.

Yes it is crowd control. Yes it is annoying. No, it has little to do with "terrorism". Considering half of the people I meet on an Amtrak LD train usually say "I never knew they ran trains like this before" I think we should probably treat everybody like kindergartners in the interests of directing people where to board and limiting the number of errors on the part of passengers who quickly blame Amtrak for not telling them where to be or where not to go.

A friend in recently vacationing in England got on the wrong and blamed the station and the train company for not providing adequate signage so she could make the three-minute connection she booked.

rickycourtney said:

Personally, I prefer to sit down in the station until it's time to board, instead of standing on the platform to wait for my train. I'd just prefer that Amtrak get rid the gates and simply make a boarding call... saying that passengers can now board train xxx on track xxx.

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Same here, and I agree that CHI is too crowded to just let people pack the platforms. Maybe there's a way to keep the automatic doors shut, the same way they're able to lock them in the "open" position. I thought I had that in my original post, but I must have cut it by accident when I deleted some other text.

SarahZ said:

rickycourtney said:

Personally, I prefer to sit down in the station until it's time to board, instead of standing on the platform to wait for my train. I'd just prefer that Amtrak get rid the gates and simply make a boarding call... saying that passengers can now board train xxx on track xxx.

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Same here, and I agree that CHI is too crowded to just let people pack the platforms. Maybe there's a way to keep the automatic doors shut, the same way they're able to lock them in the "open" position. I thought I had that in my original post, but I must have cut it by accident when I deleted some other text.

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I guess I'm too much of a train person - would rather wait on the platform, watch the train come in, watch off-boarding and the micro-maint, and then board. ... but, that's just me. ;-)

Here is recent commentary from Streetsblog on the boarding situation in CHI.

I tend to agree with those who are troubled or bothered by Amtrak's boarding process at many major stations. Perhaps at a few stations there are IMHO reasonable concerns about narrow/overcrowded platforms, but Amtrak has a similar gate control/ticket check process at stations where such concerns are absent. It seems to me that better signage on platforms could alleviate concerns about which train and car to board, and personnel currently assigned to gate control could be redeployed to help answer questions and provide information to passengers who need assistance. If anything, this might reduce crowds and lines.

So how would you deal with situations where you can have trains in places like NYP where on the same platform can be two identical trains going in opposite directions to opposite locations. You could ask Congress for millions to put in new fancy electronic signs and hire Al Roker to announce the arrivals like on some commuter rails, but you're definitely going to get confused people on the wrong train. Amtrak has a much higher percentage of people who are not familiar with trains, veterans and daily commuters may not be bothered by such a policy but tourists and first-timers (who already find NYP to be confounding) will end up getting on the wrong platform, waiting for the wrong trains, getting on the wrong trains...

Amtrak's gate checks seem to be about making sure as few people get on the wrong trains as possible.

My friend and I were recently in CLT when 19 and 20 were in at the same time, and despite being told which way to turn (twice) I got to the platform and was confused and we nearly got on the wrong train. I have many trips under my belt. Thankfully the last and final line of boarding checks (the conductors) caught our mistake before we missed our train.

How many tourists get on the wrong train in the NY subways? Lots every day. Thankfully they can correct their error within minutes of noticing it by crossing to the other side of the platform and waiting five minutes for another train. The same cannot be said of people who wind up on the wrong train on Amtrak's LD trains.

gmushial said:

SarahZ said:

rickycourtney said:

Personally, I prefer to sit down in the station until it's time to board, instead of standing on the platform to wait for my train. I'd just prefer that Amtrak get rid the gates and simply make a boarding call... saying that passengers can now board train xxx on track xxx.

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Same here, and I agree that CHI is too crowded to just let people pack the platforms. Maybe there's a way to keep the automatic doors shut, the same way they're able to lock them in the "open" position. I thought I had that in my original post, but I must have cut it by accident when I deleted some other text.

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I guess I'm too much of a train person - would rather wait on the platform, watch the train come in, watch off-boarding and the micro-maint, and then board. ... but, that's just me. ;-)

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It's simply not possible in CHI. The platforms are narrow, and there are passengers and Red Caps everywhere. There's hardly room to move around when you're walking to/from the train during busy periods. I can't imagine doing it with more people crowding the area.

That said, I still wish there were a way to make it so.

Seems easy enough on paper to solve.

• Don't so much bar access to the platforms but use the current gates as they are. However, in the boarding lounges, there should be no gates at all! Make them just that, an unstaffed lounge that a customer has the choice of using or not using at their leisure. It would (and should) be entirely on the shoulders of a customer to listen for gate opening announcements and pay attention to train information boards.
• Eliminate the "Gate Dragon" and instead replace them with a greeter wearing a very identifiable uniform, who's sole job is to make it quite clear that "Train XXX" is boarding here and answer questions. In no case are they to inspect tickets, unless the customer desires them to. And when that happens, they should be very well trained to provide an educated answer instead an attitude.
• Don't have any que or line-up of any kind before a gate opens. Allow a gate to open exactly 30 minutes before a train departs (CHI being a terminal station, this is very obtainable.) The gate should remain open and unrestricted for all that desire to pass through that time window, closing the moment the conductor calls "All Aboard!"
• As for security, require Amtrak Police officers to actually just patrol and stroll along the platforms instead of hole up in the office behind the counter neighboring the ML. In addition, train the officers to provide information in a courteous and polite manner to confused or lost passengers.

Of course, actually making the change to this very simple and likely less expensive system is futile. Amtrak has shown that the company sees no issue with the current setup, and nothing will be changed.

I will agree that open access to the platforms, solely for crowd control, is a very bad idea in today's world.

Blackwolf's Idea for Chicago is Excellent but I'm Not Sure it will work in WAS,PHL or NYP where you have to use Stairs, an Escalator or Elevator to Go down to the Platforms to Catch Amtrak Trains!

The idea of Better Training for Station Personnel is Outstanding since Chicago is Known for Rude and Unhelpful Staff Though this Does Seem to be Getting Better Especially in the Metro Lounge! I too wonder why So Many Amtrak Police Hang out around the Security Desk by the Metro Lounge instead of Patrolling the Station and the Platforms More Often!

Blackwolf said:

Don't have any que or line-up of any kind before a gate opens. Allow a gate to open exactly 30 minutes before a train departs.

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I think you'll just have a lineup from 45-30 minutes before departure.

jebr said:

I, for the most part, agree with this article. There's no reason why passengers can't wait on the platform or walk to the train on their own. The boards already list which gate the train is leaving from, so that can just change that to track and have people get on board via track instead of gate.

A terrorist could, in theory, walk on a train, and someone could just hide in the bathroom, but almost every other rail agency has figured out how to handle that with passengers being on the platform. Heck, commuter rail agencies allow people to wait on the platform, and they go into the same stations as Amtrak does.

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There's really not much a terrorist could do on a train anyway; the train bombings which occurred in various cities some years ago were really a bust from the point of view of the terrorists. It's more effective for a terrorist to bomb a station waiting room or a shopping mall, or to sabotage a bridge or tracks. Amtrak is making serious efforts to secure tracks and bridges, to Amtrak's credit. FWIW Amtrak *does* not normally pull out the completely bogus claim of "security" when Amtrak tries to justify the bizarre "gate" procedures at Chicago, DC, etc.
Rather, Amtrak has said for years that the worry is platform overcrowding. This, unlike "security", could be a real issue. But there's got to be a better way to do it.

I think -- guessing here -- that the idea of the current procedure in NY or DC might be to unload the train before allowing people to start getting on the train, to separate the train-to-station traffic flow from the station-to-train traffic flow. That would make some sense.

But all of the trains to Chicago start or terminate in Chicago, and I think they all leave the station for servicing after unloading and before loading, so this doesn't really make any sense whatsoever in Chicago, does it?

Frankly, the boarding procedure in Chicago annoys me. Just let me walk out to the track listed on the board like I can for Metra.

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Yeah.

I recall a movie circa 1940 about a woman who was trying to catch a train from New York to Florida, she stood next to a PRR employee who was checking names off a list of people at the upper level while people were escorted by the conductors at the lower level. Assuming that movie was an accurate depiction of a boarding procedure I commented "Amtrak's security checks haven't changed much since the 40s". Though at one point the millionaires who abscond with the woman shoot up the train, the conductor's, after multiple gunshots (destroying a PRR coach and nearly killing the black OBS staff) are warned by the conductors that discharging the weapon was "a misdemeanour".

June the Coach Rider said:

so having signage that lists the train would have to change constantly.

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This "problem" was solved 200 years ago, initially with chalk boards and hanging signs adjusted by station staff, later with Solari boards, and finally with digital monitors, listing which train is leaving from which track. In short, this is not a problem.

Guest said:

Rather, Amtrak has said for years that the worry is platform overcrowding. This, unlike "security", could be a real issue. But there's got to be a better way to do it.

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While I agree that Amtrak's "security" measures amount to little more than crowd control, platform overcrowding is a "security" threat in the same sense that Amtrak's wants it's passengers to be secure from injury or death from accidents which may occur on overcrowded platforms. I suspect it reduces lawsuits at the end of the day and "security" is just a good sell-word in this crazy world of ours.