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Amtrak Accident in Chicago
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daveyb99
OBS Chief
CNN now reporting an accident involving a AMTRAK #371, inbound to Chicago from Grand Rapids.
The accident has occurred in the yard south of Union station (near 48th and Shields). For whatever reason, the AMTRAK train rear-ended a freight. The engine overran the last freight car, a stack train car with one module. It appears the passenger cars remained upright and did not derail.
Video shows the #8 Engine with three Superliner cars (#35008, xxxxx, xxxxx). (courtesy WGN and WLS)
Chicago FD reporting 100+ passengers as walking wounded, with serious and critical injuries involving the AMTRAK crew.
The accident has occurred in the yard south of Union station (near 48th and Shields). For whatever reason, the AMTRAK train rear-ended a freight. The engine overran the last freight car, a stack train car with one module. It appears the passenger cars remained upright and did not derail.
Video shows the #8 Engine with three Superliner cars (#35008, xxxxx, xxxxx). (courtesy WGN and WLS)
Chicago FD reporting 100+ passengers as walking wounded, with serious and critical injuries involving the AMTRAK crew.
daveyb99
OBS Chief
from CNN
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/11/30/trains.co...e.ap/index.html
from WLS-TV
http://abclocal.go.com/wls/front
Chicago Sun-Times
http://abclocal.go.com/wls/front
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/11/30/trains.co...e.ap/index.html
from WLS-TV
http://abclocal.go.com/wls/front
Chicago Sun-Times
http://abclocal.go.com/wls/front
daveyb99
OBS Chief
While this story is still breaking, find LIVE COVERAGE HERE
WLS-TV LIVE COVERAGE
http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=news&id=4628066
WLS-TV LIVE COVERAGE
http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=news&id=4628066
VentureForth
Engineer
Really weird. No slowing down or application of brakes prior to impact. Doubt the brakes can go 'out' considering that airbrakes default to applied when malfunctioned. Wonder if the engineer just thought that the frieght was on a different track?
amtrak_russ
Service Attendant
Its a little sureal, I was out and about last night and i stopped at the depot to see this train... I know the conductors involved and it seems that they are okay from when i saw them on cnn. Just rather odd.
Navy 118
Train Attendant
CHICAGO (AP) -- An Amtrak train plowed into the back of a freight train Friday on the south side of the city, seriously injuring five Amtrak employees in an engine car that hurtled to a stop atop a crushed boxcar. Most of the 187 passengers walked away.
Fire Department spokesman Larry Langford said none of the passengers appeared to have suffered serious injuries when the Amtrak train came to a "very hard stop," but were being checked by medical personnel. Some were taken away on stretchers and backboards.
The Amtrak's three double-decker passenger cars remained upright, officials said. Most of the damage was concentrated on the passenger train's engine, and no one was in the portion of the freight train that was struck.
There were 187 passengers and six crew members aboard the train, traveling from Grand Rapids to Chicago when the accident occurred in a rail yard south of Union Station, Amtrak spokesman Derrick James said.
The National Transportation Safety Board was sending investigators. James said of particular interest is what the signals were before the Amtrak train got to the area where the collision occurred.
We just got the NAVY car home this morning. From the CNN footage, I have seen that the conductors and the Student Engineer were able to walk away, and the Engineer was taken away in a stretcher. The condition of the LSA is unknown.
Consist as I remember it from last night.
AMTK 8
AMTK 35008
AMTK 34002
AMTK 34054
Fire Department spokesman Larry Langford said none of the passengers appeared to have suffered serious injuries when the Amtrak train came to a "very hard stop," but were being checked by medical personnel. Some were taken away on stretchers and backboards.
The Amtrak's three double-decker passenger cars remained upright, officials said. Most of the damage was concentrated on the passenger train's engine, and no one was in the portion of the freight train that was struck.
There were 187 passengers and six crew members aboard the train, traveling from Grand Rapids to Chicago when the accident occurred in a rail yard south of Union Station, Amtrak spokesman Derrick James said.
The National Transportation Safety Board was sending investigators. James said of particular interest is what the signals were before the Amtrak train got to the area where the collision occurred.
We just got the NAVY car home this morning. From the CNN footage, I have seen that the conductors and the Student Engineer were able to walk away, and the Engineer was taken away in a stretcher. The condition of the LSA is unknown.
Consist as I remember it from last night.
AMTK 8
AMTK 35008
AMTK 34002
AMTK 34054
G
Guest
Guest
Questions:
Were they "driving" into the setting sun?
Why are there windows on the side of the engine? Who sits in there to see out? I have this great curiosity as to what exactly is in the engine car (besides the engine and the engineer).
If there were 3 coaches, why would there have been an LSA on board? Wouldn't that imply that one of the cars was a lounge?
What would keep the engine from turning over on its side?
Were they "driving" into the setting sun?
Why are there windows on the side of the engine? Who sits in there to see out? I have this great curiosity as to what exactly is in the engine car (besides the engine and the engineer).
If there were 3 coaches, why would there have been an LSA on board? Wouldn't that imply that one of the cars was a lounge?
What would keep the engine from turning over on its side?
G
Guest
Guest
I would guess, based on the exact location of the incident, that the engineer thought the freight cars were on another track. There is a slight curve just before the site, and by the time the danger was apparent, it was far too late.
Navy 118
Train Attendant
The seats are attached by four bolts. It would be perceivable that they could come loose in a collision.
Not at 10:00 AM in the morning.
So that the engineer and the fireman can see out of the window. There are mirrors on the side of the engine so that they can see behind them. Normally only and engineer and maybe a fireman sit in the engine, but in this case it seems as though there may have been some training going on and therefore there were more people than normal in the engine. One has to wonder if the training or the number of people in the engine didn't have something to do with the crash.
As for what's in the engine, seats, controls, a bathroom, the engine, transformers, generators, large cooling fans, and an air compressor to name a few things.
It seems that they have a cart service on this train, much like they do on the Hiawatha service.
To some extent, luck. The fact that it was coupled to the car directly behind also had some influence in keeping it upright. But if the colision forces had been greater, if something had caused the engine to tilt more, or had the coupler broken or uncoupled, then it would have almost certainly rolled over. And we can be thankful that didn't happen, as more than likely that would have led to far more serious injuries, especially for the crew of the engine.
George Harris
Engineer
No, it is not normal, particularly at the speed involved. At this point we really do not know that they did. This was a statement by a passenger, and if you read news reports on train accidents, there are a lot of "eyewitness" and passenger statements that have a considerable divergance from reality. If there is truth here, then the question becomes how many, where, and why, because it should not have happened.
Let's do a little calculation here:
Normally a train brakes at between 1 mph/second and 1.5 mph/second.
....1.5 mph/s = 2.2 ft/s/s = about 7% of gravity
Transit cars normally brake, and in the low speed range, accelerate at around 3 mph/second
....3 mph/s = 4.4 ft/s/s = about 14% of gravity.
If the pictures and stated speeds are to be believed, by riding up over the container, the train stopped from 15 to 20 mph in a distance of about 50 feet. Churning through the math gives a stopping rate of about 9 ft/s/s, or the other way, 6 mph/second. Yeah, I know the actual conversion 9 ft/sec is 6.136 mph, but the 9 is a result of an approximation of both speed and distance so it could well be anywhere between more or less about 8 and about 10, so 6 is good enough. This gives an acceleration rate of 28% of gravity, call it somewhere between a 25% and 30% range. This will throw you off your feet, and if unexpected, and this was, shove you into the seat in front of you. But, normally the results of a stop at this rate are in the bumps and bruises range. People seated should have for the most part have experienced a good shaking, spilled coffee and little more. A quick stop in a car can be at a higher rate than this, but you are supposed to belted in there. The time between initial contact and stop should have been somewhere in the range of 3 to 4 seconds.
As some had said, if the containers had been two high and loaded, the stop would have been much more abrupt, and there would have been a lot more injuries and more serious injuries. In addition, the engine crew would most likely have ended up dead.
From things said elsewhere, it appears that there were three people in the cab and the third was a student engineer.
Why is it that the first thing that came to my mind was didn't that big Metra derailment a couple of years ago happen somewhat near the same place. I'll be interested to see what the factors that are viewed to be the cause of this wreck. I'm just glad there were no fatalities.
G
Guest_TransAtlantic_*
Guest
I kind of wonder why (per the news reports) there were 5 Amtrak employees in the cab...
If the first coach was 35008, then I suppose it's possible the LSA could have been selling food downstairs.
Navy 118
Train Attendant
This consist used the lower level of the snack coach which was the 1st car in the consist. The set up is loosely like the Superliner I lounge lower-level attendant area. The main benefit for the snack coaches HOT COFFEE!!!! Which a cart based attendant can't do.
Geographically, yes. However the Metra derailment was on a different set of tracks that were on the east side of the Dan Ryan Expressway (90-94). Those were the Rock Island RR's tracks. I believe NYC used them too.
Today's incident occurred on the set of tracks that are west of the Dan Ryan. These tracks used to belong to the Pennsylvania RR. The two sets of tracks intersect at Englewood. If you use google maps, you should get a clearer picture of this area. Hope this helps.
yarrow
Engineer
i realize we don't know who was in the cab but i read one may have been a student engineer. what kind of experience, training and certification are necessary to be an amtrak engineer. also, i was watching a crew change on the eb at minot, nd a few weeks ago and saw, what i assume were, our new engineer and fireman climb into the cab. they looked young(maybe 30's)to me. what is an average age for engine crews? thanks and our thoughts to those who were injured in this accident.
That's look really bad. I'm guessing that the locomotive is totaled.
That will probably depend on how badly the frame was bent, and it does look like it might be bent at least bit. Most of the nose can easily be repaired.
PerRock
Engineer
Acording to a post on another forum I am active on:
peter
this is from: http://railroadfan.com/phpbb/index.php (Lower Michigan Talk area)
peter
Looks like the whole front end of the engine is bend downwards, and looks like a lot of the front workdesks came loose and flew forward, or perhaps it is the downward bend of the exterior that is causing that effect. That must have been a horrendous jolt to the front of the engine.
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