Northwest mudslide season begins

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JayPea said:
When houses start sliding onto the tracks, I bet you'll see property owners making more of a move to help alleviate the situation. :p
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That doesnt seem to work in LA Jeff! Houses (Very Expensive Ones!)slide off the Cliffs all the time and No Fix has ever happened!

Same thing with the Boobs that build on the Coasts where Storms happen Regularly, on Rivers that Flood etc. and then they expect the Government (Us!) to Pay them to Rebuild! Even the City of New Orleans would be a Classic Example! ;)
 
As most of you know, WSDOT has a program in place to work with BNSF to try to stabilize the cliffs. Their website is a bit sketchy on info and gives no info I can find on what to me is the most important issue -- do the properties that adjoin the cliffs have access to storm drain or even sewer system? Or does it all go into the ground water and then out via the cliffs? I spent hours searching King Co. websites for a map of their storm drain system and all I found was a report suggesting that "Gee, a map would be a really useful thing to have". So I just wrote an e-mail to Melanie Coon, info officer for WSDOT for the mudslide project, asking for info. Obviously, I'll post whatever info I get back.
 
I responded to Ms. Coon's reply for clarification with a request for a link to the proposal they must have written to FRA to secure the funding. I found copies of numerous other proposals on WSDOt websites (like the Defiance re-route) but couldn't find the "mudslide" proposal. So far no response from her.

Yep, I too am sure all of those swimming pools are drained into storm drains :) But seriously, w/o addressing the issue of storm and septic drainage from the properties and roads adjoining the cliffs, anything WSDOT and BNSF do to mitigate the slides is going to mean money wasted. I just can't see how "simply" engineering structures along the right-of-way is an efficient way to deal with the problems. I'd really like to see if/how this issue was addressed in the WSDOT proposal. Also be interesting to see what the BNSF technical assessment had to say. Anybody have inside sources??
 
CHamilton said:
Radio talk show hosts call for Sounder north line commuter trains to be discontinued in the wake of mudslides.

http://mynorthwest.c...nk-in-agreement
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Wait...a radio station is running a news story about several of its hosts agreeing on a particular issue? Jeez, talk about

an overinflated sense of self-importance. Can you imagine the discussion in the newsroom: "Joe Bigmouth thinks Sounder

North Trains ought to be eliminated." "Now, Jim Loudtalk is saying the same thing." "So that makes two sources...GO WITH IT!"

That's not to say that questioning the value of this line isn't a legitimate exercise...I just find this particular "news" article to be

an obnoxious way to approach it.

That said...this winter sure is making this route a tempting target. Heh, maybe it ought to be "seasonal" service only?
 
This story has a picture, but I can't tell if it's a new one, or just a rerun of an old one. They all run together after a while.

North Sounder service halted until at least FridaySEATTLE (AP) - Mudslides continue to plague passenger rail traffic north of Seattle.

Burlington Northern Santa Fe spokesman Gus Melonas says tracks between Seattle and Everett have been shut down for passenger trains 95 percent of the time since Thanksgiving.

He says there have been 75 slides in that period. The latest was at south Everett Wednesday morning. Another slide Tuesday night covered tracks in British Columbia south of Vancouver.

Crews can usually clear the tracks quickly to allow freight train traffic to resume. Amtrak and Sound Transit Sounder trains must observe a 48-hour moratorium for safety.

The earliest that Amtrak and Sounder trains could roll north from Seattle would be 8 a.m. Friday.
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Sorry I have not been following this topic since I don't happen to go to that part of the country, but now I have a trip coming up so getting worried- someone please tell me how grave (or non-existent) is the risk to Coast Starlight as far as the mudslide season goes? Does it get stuck for hours/canceled/bustituted often or is the problem limited to only north of Seattle?
 
fairviewroad said:
CHamilton said:
Radio talk show hosts call for Sounder north line commuter trains to be discontinued in the wake of mudslides.

http://mynorthwest.c...nk-in-agreement
Click to expand...
Wait...a radio station is running a news story about several of its hosts agreeing on a particular issue? Jeez, talk about

an overinflated sense of self-importance. Can you imagine the discussion in the newsroom: "Joe Bigmouth thinks Sounder

North Trains ought to be eliminated." "Now, Jim Loudtalk is saying the same thing." "So that makes two sources...GO WITH IT!"

That's not to say that questioning the value of this line isn't a legitimate exercise...I just find this particular "news" article to be

an obnoxious way to approach it.

That said...this winter sure is making this route a tempting target. Heh, maybe it ought to be "seasonal" service only?
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Also, their proposal is to drive people in minivans? That's 188 vans (with 6 people each, plus the driver) each day. Or 94 vans each way each day. That's more than a few employees.

Now, it could be proposed for bus service to start taking over this line. Assuming 30 people on each bus (some with more, some with less, assuming non-articulated buses,) that's "only" 38 buses a day, or 19 each way each day. Spread out among the stations, and assuming few people are going from station to station (I don't know that, so that could be a flaw), it's not that bad of a deal.
 
Texan Eagle said:
Sorry I have not been following this topic since I don't happen to go to that part of the country, but now I have a trip coming up so getting worried- someone please tell me how grave (or non-existent) is the risk to Coast Starlight as far as the mudslide season goes? Does it get stuck for hours/canceled/bustituted often or is the problem limited to only north of Seattle?
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By far the most troublesome slide zones are between Seattle and Everett, particularly just south of Everett. The Coast Starlight originates and terminates in Seattle and does not go through this area. There are other slide areas that can affect the Coast Starlight but they are not the ones currently causing most of the problems. Therefore, the risk to the Coast Starlight is not zero, but it is fairly low.
 
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jebr said:
Also, their proposal is to drive people in minivans? That's 188 vans (with 6 people each, plus the driver) each day. Or 94 vans each way each day. That's more than a few employees.

Now, it could be proposed for bus service to start taking over this line. Assuming 30 people on each bus (some with more, some with less, assuming non-articulated buses,) that's "only" 38 buses a day, or 19 each way each day. Spread out among the stations, and assuming few people are going from station to station (I don't know that, so that could be a flaw), it's not that bad of a deal.
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Plus, factor in the fact that some people who are willing to commute by train would be unwilling to commute by bus, and you'd need even fewer busses than that. Of course,

the roads would be that much more congested as a result.
 
...Tracks between Seattle and Everett have been shut down for passenger trains 95 percent of the time since Thanksgiving....There have been 75 slides in that period. The latest was at south Everett Wednesday morning. Another slide Tuesday night covered tracks in British Columbia south of Vancouver.
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From the Seattle Times. Also, there was a mudslide this morning that closed a road in West Seattle.
 
johnny.menhennet said:
If the Bellingham coal trains are going through Stevens, there would not be a need to travel along the line in question...
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Stevens is close to its limit of trains right now. I think I remember reading somewhere that that number is 27 based on the time it takes to clear the tunnel of exhaust gasses. Because Stevens is a mountain grade, they will try to reduce heavy tonnage trains like coal drags on this line. Although the former NP line over Stampede could handle the traffic, its 2.2% grade is steeper than Stevens. Current coal trains travel the Columbia Gorge former SP&S line and then north on the former NP Portland/Seattle line.

Coal trains are a reality now. They just pass through Washington on their way to Tsswwassen BC to a large trans-loading terminal there. The question isnt WILL there be coal trains on this line but whether or not they will continue on toward BC or use a terminal to be constructed in Washington (and all the jobs that brings) The Chinese and Koreans WILL buy coal. The mine owners WILL sell it to them. BNSF WILL transport it. It WILL travel these lines through Seattle. Its just a matter of whether the people of Washington are not so short sighted as to not take advantage of the inevitable.
 
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From Amtrak Cascades tweet fw minutes ago;

Service between Seattle & Vancouver BC Suspended until 1/11/13 @ 8:00am due to mudslide. Replacement buses are available.

UGH
 
Add twelve hours to that.

Amtrak Cascades ‏@Amtrak_CascadesService between Seattle & Vancouver BC Suspended until 1/11/13 @ 7:40PM due to mudslide. Replacement buses are available
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Melonas says three slides hit the area Wednesday, including two on Wednesday night. Another slide Tuesday night covered tracks in British Columbia south of Vancouver. That makes a total of 77 slides in that period in the greater Pacific Northwest corridor.
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Mudslides don’t mean a holiday for Sound Transit staff

Those who run Sounder trains still have plenty of tasks to keep them busy despite the record-breaking number of cancellations....

What do staff who run the train do when the train's not running?

Service has run only one day since Dec. 17 between Everett and Seattle because of mudslides. As of Wednesday, 146 trips had been canceled, spokeswoman Kimberly Reason said, compared with the previous record of 72, set two years ago in the winter of 2010-11.

Sound Transit says its workers assigned to the trains are kept plenty busy when the line is shut down.

Organizing replacement bus service and working with Burlington Northern Santa Fe Railway staff on slide locations and prospects for resuming service are some of the duties of Sounder employees, Reason said.

The Sounder trains are driven by employees on loan from BNSF, she said. Sound Transit pays the railroad for the operators' services on a per-mile basis, and since they're not driving the trains while service is down, they don't get paid by Sound Transit during those times, Reason said.

It costs roughly $2,700 per day to run all the trains round trip, she said. Figures for per-mile wages for train operators were not immediately available Wednesday.
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Crews work to clear a mudslide off the tracks Thursday morning between Seattle and Everett.
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130110_mudslide_train_660.jpg
 
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