Upcoming 20th for Sunset / Bayou Canot tradgedy

[NE933]

Twenty years from September 22, 1993 will be the one next year in 2013.

I know a memorial marker was built at the site of the bridge. Is it accessible by road or must a boat be used?

Other items:

1. Where does lead engine 819 rest? Was it scrapped, or it part of a shrine to remember the horrific ending to three men inside the driver's cab?

2. Is the tugboat Mauvilla still in service?

3. Does anyone speculate that Amtrak will run a special "Sunset" consist similar to what it used to run with, either over or near the site, for prayers or meditation for those who died or were otherwise harmed?

4. Has the bridge's rotating mechanism that was never used, and never anchored, been 'corrected'?

I shall like to be part or at least know of what services will be held; in fact probably most of us would want to be a part of it if possible to get the time off from our jobs, etc.

Thanks, and live in peace.

I edited for grammar and sppeling errors.. ;-)

 

[Trogdor]

3. Does anyone speculate that Amtrak will run a special "Sunset" consist similar to what it used to run with, either over or near the site, for prayers or meditation for those who died or were otherwise harmed?

You're kidding, right?

 

[TML]

Amtrak did lay the foundation for restoring the Sunset Limited east of New Orleans by conducting a study a few years ago; now all it needs is for Congress to approve additional funding. I fully support restoring the SL east of NO, but it seems that the only way for that to happen is for Congress to take appropriate action.

 

[NE933]

3. Does anyone speculate that Amtrak will run a special "Sunset" consist similar to what it used to run with, either over or near the site, for prayers or meditation for those who died or were otherwise harmed?

You're kidding, right?

No Trogdor I'm not. Accidents like these leave no room for kidding. I was being fully solemn in my question. It's just an inquiry, with a bit of a wish. If you something please share.

 

[GG-1]

Twenty years from September 22, 1993 will be the one next year in 2013.

Aloha

Wow has time flown, It was about a month after that acident that I rode the SSL. I stii rember the somber feeling of everyone on board as we passed the scene of the accident.

 

[ParrotRob]

1331008072[/url]' post='351760']

1331007606[/url]' post='351757']

1331006790[/url]' post='351756']3. Does anyone speculate that Amtrak will run a special "Sunset" consist similar to what it used to run with, either over or near the site, for prayers or meditation for those who died or were otherwise harmed?

You're kidding, right?

No Trogdor I'm not. Accidents like these leave no room for kidding. I was being fully solemn in my question. It's just an inquiry, with a bit of a wish. If you something please share.

If they do anything at all I'd be amazed. But I'd bet a very large amount of money they're not going to run any kind of special train.

 

[ParrotRob]

And the answer to your first question is no, there are no roads anywhere near the site. It's very much backcountry and you'd need a boat to get there.

 

[George Harris]

4. Has the bridges rotating mechanism what was never used, and never anchored, been 'corrected'?

The rotating mechanism was never installed. The span was destroyed so it was replaced. The issue of the "never anchored" bearing was and is a red herring. Anchored or not, the span would not survive the hit.

 

[the_traveler]

Maybe they'll "temporarily suspend" the "temporary suspension" of the SL-East!

NOT!

 

[SP&S]

I seriously doubt that Amtrak would do anything to anything to note this anniversary. I don't see this as a matter of respect or disrespect for the victims. I'm just sure they would rather have this and other tragedies fade from the collective memories of the traveling public.

 

[rrdude]

3. Does anyone speculate that Amtrak will run a special "Sunset" consist similar to what it used to run with, either over or near the site, for prayers or meditation for those who died or were otherwise harmed?

You're kidding, right?

BEST LAUGH in a WEEK!

Oh man, my kids downstairs came running up, wanted to see what made me laugh so loud.

 

[jis]

3. Does anyone speculate that Amtrak will run a special "Sunset" consist similar to what it used to run with, either over or near the site, for prayers or meditation for those who died or were otherwise harmed?

You're kidding, right?

BEST LAUGH in a WEEK!

Oh man, my kids downstairs came running up, wanted to see what made me laugh so loud.

Yeah I suspect that it is more likely that the survivors and next to kin of the victims would charter a boat and go there on the day, if anything happens there at all. It is very unusual to run a train down to the location of a large accident to commemorate such.

 

[TampAGS]

Two documentaries about the tragedy are available for viewing online.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JkYWY6eOAc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbVvHgp4Oig

 

[afigg]

Yeah I suspect that it is more likely that the survivors and next to kin of the victims would charter a boat and go there on the day, if anything happens there at all. It is very unusual to run a train down to the location of a large accident to commemorate such.

yes, I can't see why Amtrak would want to commemorate an accident that caused such a large loss of life. Airlines don't spend much time commemorating plane crashes. Not exactly good for business. There were memorial services for 9/11, but that was a national tragedy with far reaching consequences.

Survivors of the accident and surviving family members might organize a ceremony and lean on Amtrak to get involved, but for Amtrak to organize a special train on their own initiative? Very unlikely. There might be an in-house ceremony of some sort with a moment of silence in memory of the lives lost, but Amtrak is not going to generate much publicity about the worse accident in their history. Even if it was not Amtrak's fault.

 

[NE933]

Following up on this, some interesting items and a few more questions. When 'Googling' the topic, I discovered that a survivor from England had asked for and pre-arranged an escort on a fire boat to carry herself and companion to the bridge, where she lay some flowers on one of the concrete piling supports that still exists. Besides mourning her fellow passengers and the crew members who did not make it, it also brought some closure to her nightmares. When a CSX freight came on the scene, it sort of made them feel better, as if it signaled that the broken rail on the bridge was finally sewn up and something she can see and touch.

I remember reading that the lead Genesis #819 was embedded so badly in the mud it took two hours of power hosing the cab before the destroyed bodies of the three people in the engineer's cab could be freed. My feelings and thoughts to the ones who performed their jobs involving ghastly circumstances. Same for the conductors and fellow passengers who had to see and hear drowning victims faces, not being able to open a window or door, that hellish look of knowing their ends were inevitable.

The optional rotating feature on that bridge, the fact that the two spans adjacent to the truss section lay on a spindle which would allow it to become an open/close drawbridge someday, I don't remember reading it - ever- in the papers. And in typical fashion, I obsessively combed through the press even going into garbage cans when I saw a related headline. How would the deed holder to bridge (CSX after it's predecessors - all 80 years of them) forget to install an anchoring mechanism that would have kept the span from moving? I'd be afraid that train traffic itself might one day at random generate a stray lateral force, such as when cargo shifts, enough to have caused this sooner or later! And the FRA for swatting flies but not stopping the dragon.

When 2:53 came and the Sunset Limited went into the river, there had to have been severe turbulence in the water and loud sounds consistent with a train crash in progress. While I don't and can't minimize the psychological agonies of the decisions of the captain and his copilot, there were two other men aboard who were deckhands, a total of four people who inexplicably - i think - waited 8 minutes until 3:03AM before calling the Coast Guard. My asking "why?" comes almost 19 yrs. later, knowing it won't reverse anything in the past, but never the less intrigued.

 

[Donctor]

3. Does anyone speculate that Amtrak will run a special "Sunset" consist similar to what it used to run with, either over or near the site, for prayers or meditation for those who died or were otherwise harmed?

You're kidding, right?

BEST LAUGH in a WEEK!

Oh man, my kids downstairs came running up, wanted to see what made me laugh so loud.

The three family members in my household came downstairs for the same reason.

 

[Donctor]

I know a memorial marker was built at the site of the bridge. Is it accessible by road or must a boat be used?

One of the difficulties with response was that the site isn't near any roads. So no, it's probably not near any roads.

1. Where does lead engine 819 rest? Was it scrapped, or it part of a shrine to remember the horrific ending to three men inside the driver's cab?

It was bronzed and mounted on a pedestal.

3. Does anyone speculate that Amtrak will run a special "Sunset" consist similar to what it used to run with, either over or near the site, for prayers or meditation for those who died or were otherwise harmed?

Yes, they will. They actually keep a number of cars specifically for this purpose.

 

[NE933]

So where is the bronzed 819 pedestalled?

:-o

I get it...

 

[AlanB]

1. Where does lead engine 819 rest? Was it scrapped, or it part of a shrine to remember the horrific ending to three men inside the driver's cab?

P40 #819 was scrapped after the investigation and insurance people were done with it.

 

[George Harris]

One thing that would help with all the suppositions, guesses, erroneous information, and monday morning quarterbacking would be to read the NTSB accident report. It can be found by searching ICC Historical Accident Reports.

The optional rotating feature on that bridge, the fact that the two spans adjacent to the truss section lay on a spindle which would allow it to become an open/close drawbridge someday, I don't remember reading it - ever- in the papers. And in typical fashion, I obsessively combed through the press even going into garbage cans when I saw a related headline. How would the deed holder to bridge (CSX after it's predecessors - all 80 years of them) forget to install an anchoring mechanism that would have kept the span from moving? I'd be afraid that train traffic itself might one day at random generate a stray lateral force, such as when cargo shifts, enough to have caused this sooner or later! And the FRA for swatting flies but not stopping the dragon.

I have said it before and will say it again: The whole "rotating bridge" issue is insignificant to the outcome of the accident. Installing an "anchoring mechanism" was not forgotten. It was not installed because it was not needed. There are many "rotating bridges" in the railroad world, where they are called swing bridges. Some are functional, some not. There are three functional swing bridges within a few miles of this one on this same railroad line. A stray cargo shift will not cause movement of these bridges. There is concern about shifted loads striking members of through bridges, yes, but that is not because they are movable bridges, but because of damage to train and bridge from the impact. We are not talking about a few boxes out of line, but heavy and dense cargo such as logs or steel beams.

When a bridge of this kind or any other steel railroad bridge of similar span is struck by a barge, it will move.

When 2:53 came and the Sunset Limited went into the river, there had to have been severe turbulence in the water and loud sounds consistent with a train crash in progress. While I don't and can't minimize the psychological agonies of the decisions of the captain and his copilot, there were two other men aboard who were deckhands, a total of four people who inexplicably - i think - waited 8 minutes until 3:03AM before calling the Coast Guard. My asking "why?" comes almost 19 yrs. later, knowing it won't reverse anything in the past, but never the less intrigued.

If you read the accident report, you will see that the barge captain and pilot (not copilot. this is a towboat, not an airplane) were reacting and action to the events that occurred as the first reasonable thing to do before reaching for the radio. While there may be reason to fault the towboat pilot's actions leading up to the collision, these does not appear to be any reason to fault his actions afterward. Read the accident report, and the word relating to the time lapse would be insignificant as to importance.

 

[FunNut]

I do not find one thing funny about the topic of this thread. A good friend of my husband's (who was standing behind Anwar Sadat when he was assassinated and was severely injured) died in this accident, with his wife. Somehow they managed to push their daughter up and out of the car, but they could not escape. It was a major tragedy and there is no humor in this topic.

 

[Ryan]

George, if you have a link to the report, I'd love to read it. It isn't on the site you specified. All I have been able to find is a short summary. Searching for the report number (RAR-94-01) has been equally fruitless.

 

[NE933]

George, if you have a link to the report, I'd love to read it. It isn't on the site you specified. All I have been able to find is a short summary. Searching for the report number (RAR-94-01) has been equally fruitless.

The NTSB website has indeed relegated it to a summary rather than the whole cover to cover.

And for the record, I/me have a hard time understanding how the unused spinning/rotating/turning feature, which lowers the force threshold needed to pivot the span and thus the track out of alignment - is insignificant. The bridge's physical reaction to barge contact was not only a rail kink, but it put a large steel gerder in the gauge. while not the total cause, it was a significant contributor of the outcome.

I know that all of this falls under an "... it would've been nice if they had done..." thing. But that's the whole function of investigating, which is to find those nice things that would ensure as close to a faultless element as possible. Less funerals, less boxes of kleenex, band-aids, body bags, anti-anxiety pills, etc.

 

[NE933]

I do not find one thing funny about the topic of this thread. A good friend of my husband's (who was standing behind Anwar Sadat when he was assassinated and was severely injured) died in this accident, with his wife. Somehow they managed to push their daughter up and out of the car, but they could not escape. It was a major tragedy and there is no humor in this topic.

Yes, it isn't funny. I read about the horrific moments you've described of parents saving their daughter by sacrificing their own lives.

I don't think anyone is making light of it. Like 9/11, which happened 4 blocks away from me, sometimes we need to laugh where we can without making it seem like it's making fun. God knows how many times we've shed tears, wretched, and writhed in nightmares. It's sort of like a generation of macabre movies similar to Godzilla. Blowing up bridges and gas tanks isn't funny, yet when we watch the giant lizard do it's thing it becomes sort of humorous. I've actually allowed myself to laugh at a 9/11 joke recently, and it felt good to me, because it felt like I've conquered my trauma over the whole event just a little better. It's either that or the mental hospital for me. Discussing these things here on A. Unlimited helps me, and hopefully others, find our way to victory.

Whatever journeys you've taken, I hope that this terrible loss of your friends is something that found its way into your lives in some semblance of peaceful harmony.

 

[PRR 60]

George, if you have a link to the report, I'd love to read it. It isn't on the site you specified. All I have been able to find is a short summary. Searching for the report number (RAR-94-01) has been equally fruitless.

The NTSB website has indeed relegated it to a summary rather than the whole cover to cover.

And for the record, I/me have a hard time understanding how the unused spinning/rotating/turning feature, which lowers the force threshold needed to pivot the span and thus the track out of alignment - is insignificant. The bridge's physical reaction to barge contact was not only a rail kink, but it put a large steel gerder in the gauge. while not the total cause, it was a significant contributor of the outcome.

I know that all of this falls under an "... it would've been nice if they had done..." thing. But that's the whole function of investigating, which is to find those nice things that would ensure as close to a faultless element as possible. Less funerals, less boxes of kleenex, band-aids, body bags, anti-anxiety pills, etc.

When a bridge superstructure is impacted by something with the momentum of a moving barge, the structure is going to displace. That is fundamental physics and structural engineering. The displacement may have been greater due to the reduced rotational resistance, but even had the bridge been fixed against rotation, the barge impact would have displaced it, and the end result would have been the same. Even six inches of displacement would derail a train.

The story about the swing span not being fixed makes for a good story in the mass media (witness its constant repetition at AU), but engineering-types know it is just hype. The problem was the barge hitting the bridge. The condition of the bridge was not a major factor in the outcome of the accident.