STATION REFUSED TO CHECK LUGGAGE

[sky12065]

She didn't read a damn one of our posts . . .

Oh -she may have been back and read some, but didn't respond for fear of what would be said next!

I've thought exactly the same thing! But frankly I didn't say it because I felt that it would have been an exercise in futility to... well, do I really need to say more? You saw the reaction to your statement!

 

[sky12065]

She didn't read a damn one of our posts, just forget her. She didn't really care-- we're #1 on "Amtrak forums" and #3 on "Amtrak complaints". She complained, we argued, some of us patronized her some of us rubbed salt in her (apparently deep) wounds.

You're probably correct here, but would it have hurt you to have included IMO, IMHO or the word "probably" in expressing your opinions instead of presenting opinions as absolute fact? IMO, if you had you might not have come across as being so dogmatic!

 

[Everydaymatters]

This entire topic seems to show the separation between the older (in age) forum members who understand and are compassionate about the frailities of health and aging and the younger ones who compare problems with luggage to carrying school books to the school bus (OMG!)

I doubt that Ruth or anyone else would write what she did if they were young and healthy.

Maybe Ruth has been reading this, and as others have implied, is now too intimidated to add further details. I certainly wouldn't put myself out there for more of the same.

 

[sunchaser]

This entire topic seems to show the separation between the older (in age) forum members who understand and are compassionate about the frailities of health and aging and the younger ones who compare problems with luggage to carrying school books to the school bus (OMG!)
I doubt that Ruth or anyone else would write what she did if they were young and healthy.

Maybe Ruth has been reading this, and as others have implied, is now too intimidated to add further details. I certainly wouldn't put myself out there for more of the same.

Interesting observation. I would add, though it really depends on the person. So people at first reading of her comments may feel bad for her. Then after reading again, may feel another way. I actually read it over several times before responding, trying to get more info out of it. I felt bad for her originally, but then after reading again, it didn't pass the smell test. There must be more that she did not include. Or something else. If there had been more detail, or more posts from her, I would be able to tell if it truly was a major thing for her or if she is normally one who complains. Again, not picking on her, but knowing that there are people out there that look for things to complain about, makes me wonder.

I for one am a little older, but have always been the 'little mother' even as a child. So I'm not sure if there is an age separation on this subject. But anything is possible.

 

[RRrich]

This entire topic seems to show the separation between the older (in age) forum members who understand and are compassionate about the frailities of health and aging and the younger ones who compare problems with luggage to carrying school books to the school bus (OMG!)
I doubt that Ruth or anyone else would write what she did if they were young and healthy.

Maybe Ruth has been reading this, and as others have implied, is now too intimidated to add further details. I certainly wouldn't put myself out there for more of the same.

I guess I (and wifey) are in the old f@rt camp. I looked at the pic of the stairs and thought that if wifey had to cope with them, we would be SOL - luggage is not an issue. If the elevator is not available, we can't ride the train out of that station.

A member here contacted me and suggested that if wifey has such problems, I should inform Amtrak in advance that if the expected service is not available then we will have MAJOR problems. Thanks Pal.

 

[sky12065]

This entire topic seems to show the separation between the older (in age) forum members who understand and are compassionate about the frailities of health and aging and the younger ones who compare problems with luggage to carrying school books to the school bus (OMG!)
I doubt that Ruth or anyone else would write what she did if they were young and healthy.

Maybe Ruth has been reading this, and as others have implied, is now too intimidated to add further details. I certainly wouldn't put myself out there for more of the same.

Interesting observation. I would add, though it really depends on the person. So people at first reading of her comments may feel bad for her. Then after reading again, may feel another way. I actually read it over several times before responding, trying to get more info out of it. I felt bad for her originally, but then after reading again, it didn't pass the smell test. There must be more that she did not include. Or something else. If there had been more detail, or more posts from her, I would be able to tell if it truly was a major thing for her or if she is normally one who complains. Again, not picking on her, but knowing that there are people out there that look for things to complain about, makes me wonder.

I for one am a little older, but have always been the 'little mother' even as a child. So I'm not sure if there is an age separation on this subject. But anything is possible.

Sunchaser,

I have to agree with Everydaymatters!

Most things in life are not absolute, but I do see more of a tendency for younger people to be less understanding or compassionate especially when they have yet to experience the effects of growing older and/or becoming disabled. At the same time we older people need to keep in mind that we may not have been any different when we were younger!

But this lacking is not exclusive to the young alone. There are still some older folks that still don't get it and quite possibly never will!

 

[MrFSS]

Most things in life are not absolute, but I do see more of a tendency for younger people to be less understanding or compassionate especially when they have yet to experience the effects of growing older and/or becoming disabled. At the same time we older people need to keep in mind that we may not have been any different when we were younger!
But this lacking is not exclusive to the young alone. There are still some older folks that still don't get it and quite possibly never will!

"When I was a boy of 14, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be 21, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned in seven years."

-- Mark Twain

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

A. Ruth never said she was older. Her post doesn't indicate her age

B. I have compassion for those in need, not genuine fools.

C. Ruth's maturity level, as indicated by her post, is one that demonstrates a childish understanding of the world.

D. Her post was in a boisterous melodramatic tone, I HARDLY think that she'd be scared of us.

You people are playing into her childish need to get attention and sympathy where she deserves none. If she can present herself in a logical adult manner then I will offer compassion. Until then, I think she's a childish fool and deserves critique and not sympathy.

And E. I really hate when YOU judge me to be non-compassionate because I am young. I am a very generous and kind person, I just don't offer it to those who have brought drama unto themselves. I ascribe to "if you dug your grave... lie in it" and I will even help shovel you in.

 

[wayman]

**goes off to cry and blog about her horrible bus experience**

What's the URL of that blog?

LMAO! It's not real but if it was I'd so post it.

None of my experience was real it just was my reply to the OP's totally ridiculous post.

I've recently discovered some SEPTA-related blogs which mostly post stories of snafus and screwups submitted by readers (basically, all-vent, all-the-time, with some amount of constructive criticism). Pretty funny, because they're things that every regular SEPTA rider is familiar with, but it's a very different character than this board. http://www.septafail.com for example (which even by its name gives you a sense of where it goes!).

But nothing so dramatic as mercedeslove's humorous example And none of it's name-calling or trolling or other examples of bad behavior.

So I guess where I'm going is that venting and posting the bad experiences can both be positive for a forum, and while they're somewhat different things, they're similar in that they can both lead to greater awareness of problems and constructive suggestions both with how riders can cope with them and with how the company could change to correct them. And as such neither should be squashed initially. If the comments go in a bad direction, that's different, but that could happen to any thread. I'm glad this board is moderated in the way that it is.

 

[Neil_M]

How many times has the particular scenario happened to someone other than the first poster?

Seems to be a lot of 'what ifs and whens' but if this is a one off or very very rare then why is everyone getting overexcited if they haven't personally experienced it?

Lots of stuff can go wrong, I imagine getting kicked off the train in the middle of the night onto a bus is not nice, (and that's the worst case scenario for me, apart from the diner running out of food!)

Anyone can create a worse case scenario, but that don't mean its going to happen!

 

[Ryan]

A. Ruth never said she was older. Her post doesn't indicate her age
B. I have compassion for those in need, not genuine fools.

C. Ruth's maturity level, as indicated by her post, is one that demonstrates a childish understanding of the world.

D. Her post was in a boisterous melodramatic tone, I HARDLY think that she'd be scared of us.

You people are playing into her childish need to get attention and sympathy where she deserves none. If she can present herself in a logical adult manner then I will offer compassion. Until then, I think she's a childish fool and deserves critique and not sympathy.

And E. I really hate when YOU judge me to be non-compassionate because I am young. I am a very generous and kind person, I just don't offer it to those who have brought drama unto themselves. I ascribe to "if you dug your grave... lie in it" and I will even help shovel you in.

As a young person who routinely help tourists (or others headed for the airport) load their bags from the low platforms, I couldn't agree more. Sweeping generalizations about young people are about as accurate as sweeping generalizations that old people should just stay home if they're too feeble to get around without assistance (which is to say, not correct at all, and equally offensive).

 

[wayman]

This entire topic seems to show the separation between the older (in age) forum members who understand and are compassionate about the frailities of health and aging and the younger ones who compare problems with luggage to carrying school books to the school bus (OMG!)
I doubt that Ruth or anyone else would write what she did if they were young and healthy.

Maybe Ruth has been reading this, and as others have implied, is now too intimidated to add further details. I certainly wouldn't put myself out there for more of the same.

Interesting observation. I would add, though it really depends on the person. So people at first reading of her comments may feel bad for her. Then after reading again, may feel another way. I actually read it over several times before responding, trying to get more info out of it. I felt bad for her originally, but then after reading again, it didn't pass the smell test. There must be more that she did not include. Or something else. If there had been more detail, or more posts from her, I would be able to tell if it truly was a major thing for her or if she is normally one who complains. Again, not picking on her, but knowing that there are people out there that look for things to complain about, makes me wonder.

I for one am a little older, but have always been the 'little mother' even as a child. So I'm not sure if there is an age separation on this subject. But anything is possible.

Sunchaser,

I have to agree with Everydaymatters!

Most things in life are not absolute, but I do see more of a tendency for younger people to be less understanding or compassionate especially when they have yet to experience the effects of growing older and/or becoming disabled. At the same time we older people need to keep in mind that we may not have been any different when we were younger!

But this lacking is not exclusive to the young alone. There are still some older folks that still don't get it and quite possibly never will!

I've mostly tried to stay out of this thread as far as those discussions have gone, but I'll chime in here briefly.

I consider myself in the younger-member section, but I'm certainly aware of the issues of age, health, and disability. In college I had several friends with serious health issues or mobility issues, at least three of whom walked with canes and one who used a wheelchair most of the time--by their twenties. Another friend went from fully sighted to almost completely blind during the four years we were in college together. Perhaps my experiences are highly unusual in that regard. So I learned firsthand how to try to be accommodating--which means both how to help out and how to respect the many things my friends can still do perfectly well on their own, appearances to the contrary. The first lesson to learn is that you need to be aware of everyone's situation; but the second, and almost the harder lesson, is that you shouldn't assume anything (such as, that someone always needs assistance), because that can be annoying or even insulting!

With regards to the original poster's situation, it means that I would be hesitant to immediately offer to carry her bags, unless it was evident she was having extreme difficulty with them. Since we have no idea how she comported herself in Birmingham, I really can't say how I would have handled the situation personally. It does sound like she may have been asking for assistance, though, and if that were the case I would have tried to help. But if she were being passive-aggressive about it--waiting to be asked if she needed help, rather than seeking it in any way--I might well have assumed she preferred not to be asked because she preferred her independence, and thus stayed away... and if she then later complained, I would feel upset with her behavior.

As it is, there are so many details we'll never know about what actually happened in this particular situation that I do not want to pass any sort of judgment on the actions of either the original poster or her fellow travelers. And given what has come to light about Amtrak's situation on that day, I find it hard to fault the ticket agent who was working in Birmingham. Perhaps he could have done differently, but if he were really working solo that day and having to cope with a situation perhaps beyond anything he'd encountered in his time with Amtrak--perhaps even including dealing with complex and contradictory instructions from Amtrak's offices, the Crescent's conductor, and the rulebook--I can't fault him either. Maybe Amtrak should have had extra board available; maybe they normally do but on that particular day they couldn't bring a second person to Birmingham for some reason. Maybe the elevator worked, maybe it was broken. We'll never know.

The only absolutely crystal clear undeniable fault, in my opinion, lies with the architecture of the Birmingham station! Everything else in this situation is too unclear.

 

[VentureForth]

Blah blah blah...

I thought you wanted this thread closed, but you're doing a great job keeping it live!

I don't think ANYONE posts here thinking this is Amtrak. None of the OP had any of the pronouns (ie: YOU, You're Company, etc) to indicate such. One poster about a year ago or so DID call us here Amtrak but later explained that she simply copied and pasted an email to Amtrak to the forums here.

I appreciate AlanB allowing us to discuss the merits of customer service as weighed against expectations here. If any company not subsidized by the US Government to the tune of half it's budget annually was run the Amtrak is run, it would be gone forever. That's my opinion.

We generally talk about several aspects of Amtrak here: Experience on Amtrak, Routes that need to be restarted, Routes that need to be improved and frequencies increased, and Government's Role (though NO ONE here seems to like politics, it's all the rave).

 

[Everydaymatters]

A. Ruth never said she was older. Her post doesn't indicate her age
B. I have compassion for those in need, not genuine fools.

C. Ruth's maturity level, as indicated by her post, is one that demonstrates a childish understanding of the world.

D. Her post was in a boisterous melodramatic tone, I HARDLY think that she'd be scared of us.

You people are playing into her childish need to get attention and sympathy where she deserves none. If she can present herself in a logical adult manner then I will offer compassion. Until then, I think she's a childish fool and deserves critique and not sympathy.

And E. I really hate when YOU judge me to be non-compassionate because I am young. I am a very generous and kind person, I just don't offer it to those who have brought drama unto themselves. I ascribe to "if you dug your grave... lie in it" and I will even help shovel you in.

I rest my case.

 

[sky12065]

I consider myself in the younger-member section, but I'm certainly aware of the issues of age, health, and disability. In college I had several friends with serious health issues or mobility issues, at least three of whom walked with canes and one who used a wheelchair most of the time--by their twenties. Another friend went from fully sighted to almost completely blind during the four years we were in college together. Perhaps my experiences are highly unusual in that regard. So I learned firsthand how to try to be accommodating--which means both how to help out and how to respect the many things my friends can still do perfectly well on their own, appearances to the contrary. The first lesson to learn is that you need to be aware of everyone's situation; but the second, and almost the harder lesson, is that you shouldn't assume anything (such as, that someone always needs assistance), because that can be annoying or even insulting!
With regards to the original poster's situation, it means that I would be hesitant to immediately offer to carry her bags, unless it was evident she was having extreme difficulty with them. Since we have no idea how she comported herself in Birmingham, I really can't say how I would have handled the situation personally. It does sound like she may have been asking for assistance, though, and if that were the case I would have tried to help. But if she were being passive-aggressive about it--waiting to be asked if she needed help, rather than seeking it in any way--I might well have assumed she preferred not to be asked because she preferred her independence, and thus stayed away... and if she then later complained, I would feel upset with her behavior.

As it is, there are so many details we'll never know about what actually happened in this particular situation that I do not want to pass any sort of judgment on the actions of either the original poster or her fellow travelers. And given what has come to light about Amtrak's situation on that day, I find it hard to fault the ticket agent who was working in Birmingham. Perhaps he could have done differently, but if he were really working solo that day and having to cope with a situation perhaps beyond anything he'd encountered in his time with Amtrak--perhaps even including dealing with complex and contradictory instructions from Amtrak's offices, the Crescent's conductor, and the rulebook--I can't fault him either. Maybe Amtrak should have had extra board available; maybe they normally do but on that particular day they couldn't bring a second person to Birmingham for some reason. Maybe the elevator worked, maybe it was broken. We'll never know.

The only absolutely crystal clear undeniable fault, in my opinion, lies with the architecture of the Birmingham station! Everything else in this situation is too unclear.

Wayman,

This was a very good, well thought out posting. In part it is what I've been trying to say all along.

One thing I may mildly disagree with is where you stated:

"It does sound like she may have been asking for assistance, though, and if that were the case I would have tried to help. But if she were being passive-aggressive about it--waiting to be asked if she needed help, rather than seeking it in any way--I might well have assumed she preferred not to be asked because she preferred her independence, and thus stayed away... and if she then later complained, I would feel upset with her behavior."

I've been in situations where I needed help, assistance or a favor and have been either too timid, apprehensive or just plain embarrassed to ask! Was I too independent to ask? No! It was more about not wanting to be in a position of or feeling bad about inconveniencing others. You may also look at it, and rightfully so as a case of pride on my part, but one thing it definitely was not was a case of independence. But not matter how you look at it, I speak only for myself and not the OP or anyone else in similar situations!

 

[sky12065]

A. Ruth never said she was older. Her post doesn't indicate her age
B. I have compassion for those in need, not genuine fools.

C. Ruth's maturity level, as indicated by her post, is one that demonstrates a childish understanding of the world.

D. Her post was in a boisterous melodramatic tone, I HARDLY think that she'd be scared of us.

You people are playing into her childish need to get attention and sympathy where she deserves none. If she can present herself in a logical adult manner then I will offer compassion. Until then, I think she's a childish fool and deserves critique and not sympathy.

And E. I really hate when YOU judge me to be non-compassionate because I am young. I am a very generous and kind person, I just don't offer it to those who have brought drama unto themselves. I ascribe to "if you dug your grave... lie in it" and I will even help shovel you in.

I rest my case.

EDM, If you win your case, I'll betch'ya it'll be taken to a higher court! :lol:

 

[Tony]

Wayman,
This was a very good, well thought out posting. In part it is what I've been trying to say all along.

One thing I may mildly disagree with is where you stated:

"It does sound like she may have been asking for assistance, though, and if that were the case I would have tried to help. But if she were being passive-aggressive about it--waiting to be asked if she needed help, rather than seeking it in any way--I might well have assumed she preferred not to be asked because she preferred her independence, and thus stayed away... and if she then later complained, I would feel upset with her behavior."

I've been in situations where I needed help, assistance or a favor and have been either too timid, apprehensive or just plain embarrassed to ask! Was I too independent to ask? No! It was more about not wanting to be in a position of or feeling bad about inconveniencing others. You may also look at it, and rightfully so as a case of pride on my part, but one thing it definitely was not was a case of independence. But not matter how you look at it, I speak only for myself and not the OP or anyone else in similar situations!

At least for me, I would have to say it all depends.

IMHO, part of the equation would be that being a fellow passenger, I would probably be aware of some problem (Luggage guy didn't show up for work, elevator not working, etc). So, that strongly temper my judgement and actions.

Now, given that, if I saw a timid 90yo lady struggling to get her carry-on bag up the two flights of stairs, I would definitely step up and offer to help.

However, if I saw a 22yo man, with six-pack abs, struggling to get his carry-on bag (obviously, filled with his dumbbell weight sets) up the two flights of stairs, I would completely ignore him. Yea, there might be some unobvious other reason he might have that's stairs would pose a problem (artificial legs?), but if that was true, he better get use to asking for help.

 

[sunchaser]

Wayman,
This was a very good, well thought out posting. In part it is what I've been trying to say all along.

One thing I may mildly disagree with is where you stated:

"It does sound like she may have been asking for assistance, though, and if that were the case I would have tried to help. But if she were being passive-aggressive about it--waiting to be asked if she needed help, rather than seeking it in any way--I might well have assumed she preferred not to be asked because she preferred her independence, and thus stayed away... and if she then later complained, I would feel upset with her behavior."

I've been in situations where I needed help, assistance or a favor and have been either too timid, apprehensive or just plain embarrassed to ask! Was I too independent to ask? No! It was more about not wanting to be in a position of or feeling bad about inconveniencing others. You may also look at it, and rightfully so as a case of pride on my part, but one thing it definitely was not was a case of independence. But not matter how you look at it, I speak only for myself and not the OP or anyone else in similar situations!

At least for me, I would have to say it all depends.

IMHO, part of the equation would be that being a fellow passenger, I would probably be aware of some problem (Luggage guy didn't show up for work, elevator not working, etc). So, that strongly temper my judgement and actions.

Now, given that, if I saw a timid 90yo lady struggling to get her carry-on bag up the two flights of stairs, I would definitely step up and offer to help.

However, if I saw a 22yo man, with six-pack abs, struggling to get his carry-on bag (obviously, filled with his dumbbell weight sets) up the two flights of stairs, I would completely ignore him. Yea, there might be some unobvious other reason he might have that's stairs would pose a problem (artificial legs?), but if that was true, he better get use to asking for help.

I'm going to go out on a limb here by stating that, regardless of age, most of us would offer help to someone who looks like they could use it.

I do include those that are younger, because I know people of all ages, young & old, and the even the teenagers I know would offer help. So that's why her post was odd to me. There's bound to be at least one person that will help. Maybe I'm too optomistic in this area, it's just what I have seen over the years.

 

[tp49]

A lot of folks raise interesting points and I'd like to hit some of them in kind. Mind you I love playing devil's advocate.

In reference to my previous posts, it certainly wasn't arbitrary. Whatever the reason, the lack of a backup plan, or the failure of a backup plan created the perception to anyone inconvenienced that it was arbitrary.
In my most humble opinion, there should never be a darn good reason why an advertised service is not offered. When a paper slip is taped to a window and the adult in charge doesn't seem to care to explain the whys, it would seem to the average traveller that it was, indeed, arbitrary.

As OBS stated in his post there is one person on the extra board to cover an area from Birmingham to Meridian, Mississippi. If the extra board worker was in Meridian it's a two to two and a half hour trip to get that person from Meridian to Birmingham to cover for the missing person at Birmingham not withstanding the southbound train. If the extra board person was in Tuscaloosa that's at minimum an hour drive to Birmingham again notwithstanding having to work the southbound train at TCL. In theroy, they might have been able to pull someone from Atlanta but even then it's a two and half to three hour drive to Birmingham from Atlanta.

Maybe given the coverage area there should be another person on the extra board from Birmingham to Meridian.

This entire topic seems to show the separation between the older (in age) forum members who understand and are compassionate about the frailities of health and aging and the younger ones who compare problems with luggage to carrying school books to the school bus (OMG!)
I doubt that Ruth or anyone else would write what she did if they were young and healthy.

Interesting observation. I would add, though it really depends on the person. So people at first reading of her comments may feel bad for her. Then after reading again, may feel another way. I actually read it over several times before responding, trying to get more info out of it. I felt bad for her originally, but then after reading again, it didn't pass the smell test. There must be more that she did not include. Or something else. If there had been more detail, or more posts from her, I would be able to tell if it truly was a major thing for her or if she is normally one who complains.

EDM before you paint all of us younger people with a wide brush understand this I have arthritis in my shoulder and knee and it affects my mobility. I manage to do what I have to just fine but I'm apainfully aware of mobility problems. It's funny though in an ironic way as my grandparents were able bodied and healthy but loved to complain about everything and I do mean everything. When I first read the original post it reminded me of them. Second, I believe the books to the bus thing you are refrencing was intended as a joke by the person who wrote it and yes I laughed at it because it seemed to me to be meant to lighten the mood.

I agree with you sunchaser. I read Ruth's post several times before I responded to it. I had the same reaction to it that you did. I would have liked to see more details from what occurred. If she would have said "I have health/mobility issues" having been a member of this community (AU) for almost seven years now I believe the response would have been more compassionate from the beginning than it was.

With regards to the original poster's situation, it means that I would be hesitant to immediately offer to carry her bags, unless it was evident she was having extreme difficulty with them. Since we have no idea how she comported herself in Birmingham, I really can't say how I would have handled the situation personally. It does sound like she may have been asking for assistance, though, and if that were the case I would have tried to help. But if she were being passive-aggressive about it--waiting to be asked if she needed help, rather than seeking it in any way--I might well have assumed she preferred not to be asked because she preferred her independence, and thus stayed away... and if she then later complained, I would feel upset with her behavior.

As it is, there are so many details we'll never know about what actually happened in this particular situation that I do not want to pass any sort of judgment on the actions of either the original poster or her fellow travelers. And given what has come to light about Amtrak's situation on that day, I find it hard to fault the ticket agent who was working in Birmingham. Perhaps he could have done differently, but if he were really working solo that day and having to cope with a situation perhaps beyond anything he'd encountered in his time with Amtrak--perhaps even including dealing with complex and contradictory instructions from Amtrak's offices, the Crescent's conductor, and the rulebook--I can't fault him either. Maybe Amtrak should have had extra board available; maybe they normally do but on that particular day they couldn't bring a second person to Birmingham for some reason. Maybe the elevator worked, maybe it was broken. We'll never know.

The only absolutely crystal clear undeniable fault, in my opinion, lies with the architecture of the Birmingham station! Everything else in this situation is too unclear.

Wayman,

This was a very good, well thought out posting. In part it is what I've been trying to say all along.

One thing I may mildly disagree with is where you stated:

"It does sound like she may have been asking for assistance, though, and if that were the case I would have tried to help. But if she were being passive-aggressive about it--waiting to be asked if she needed help, rather than seeking it in any way--I might well have assumed she preferred not to be asked because she preferred her independence, and thus stayed away... and if she then later complained, I would feel upset with her behavior."

I've been in situations where I needed help, assistance or a favor and have been either too timid, apprehensive or just plain embarrassed to ask! Was I too independent to ask? No! It was more about not wanting to be in a position of or feeling bad about inconveniencing others. You may also look at it, and rightfully so as a case of pride on my part, but one thing it definitely was not was a case of independence. But not matter how you look at it, I speak only for myself and not the OP or anyone else in similar situations!

I agree with Wayman. His post is similar to my thoughts on the subject. As I've continuously said throughout the thread is that I would have liked to know more information. Without additional information there is no way to come to a logical conclusion and coming to a conclusion without all of the facts is dangerous.

Sky as for what you said, I can understand not wanting to inconvenience others but that's an unfair assumption you're making. I also understand it is an issue of pride. However, how is someone going to know that a person needs assistance unless they ask? Worst case scenario is that the person says no but then you'd ask another. Unless Kreskin is in the room people are not mind readers and considering how litigious our society has become people are apt to not want to get involved. A hypothetical would be say Ruth asked a young man if he could help her carry her bag to the platform and the young man says "sure, no problem." As he lifts the suitcase up the handle breaks and the bag falls onto Ruth's foot breaking her foot. Ruth then sues him and wins. Now this person who was just trying to help and do the right thing is on the hook for money. When you hear about situations like that it makes people not want to be helpful for fear of being sued. I know this isn't anything that was stated but I'm putting it out there for consideration.

I generally follow the rule my mother told me when I was a child. If you need help ask for it. If you ask and the person is a jerk about it that's on them it has nothing to do with you.

I'm going to go out on a limb here by stating that, regardless of age, most of us would offer help to someone who looks like they could use it.
I do include those that are younger, because I know people of all ages, young & old, and the even the teenagers I know would offer help. So that's why her post was odd to me. There's bound to be at least one person that will help. Maybe I'm too optomistic in this area, it's just what I have seen over the years.

In the end I agree wholehartedly with this. While our society has its issues I don't think we've been reduced to being total barbarians at least not yet.

 

[Everydaymatters]

EDM before you paint all of us younger people with a wide brush understand this I have arthritis in my shoulder and knee and it affects my mobility. I manage to do what I have to just fine but I'm apainfully aware of mobility problems. It's funny though in an ironic way as my grandparents were able bodied and healthy but loved to complain about everything and I do mean everything. When I first read the original post it reminded me of them. Second, I believe the books to the bus thing you are refrencing was intended as a joke by the person who wrote it and yes I laughed at it because it seemed to me to be meant to lighten the mood.

I didn't intend to paint all younger people with a wide brush. It was a general statement that there is a general separation in age as to attitudes. You and Wayman and others, young and old, made some very good points.

I felt the school books commentary was a sick joke and insensitive.

And to be told " I will even help shovel you in", well that must have been written by a very young person.

This whole topic seems to have brought out some of the best and some of the worst in people.

 

[Ryan]

Yet you continue to paint with a broad brush when you make statements like "must have been written by a young person".

I won't speak for ALC, but given his posts (in this topic and others) I suspect that him and I are very much alike in not suffering fools well. Prove yourself a decent person worth helping, and I'll go to the end of the road helping you out. However, attempt to take advantage, not play fair or at least try to pull your own weight, and not only will I cease to help you (lie in the grave that you've dug for yourself), but make sure that you get what's coming to you (help shovel you in). That's hardly a youthful attribute at all, in my experience age has no bearing on whether folks ascribe to that attitude or take a more "hands off" approach.

But, it's clear that you're stuck in the "youth == bad" and "age == good" paradigm, even by your comments in this most recent post. I wouldn't say that this has "brought out" the best/worst in anyone, but merely made it easier to see what's been there all along. No value judgment required.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

EDM before you paint all of us younger people with a wide brush understand this I have arthritis in my shoulder and knee and it affects my mobility. I manage to do what I have to just fine but I'm apainfully aware of mobility problems. It's funny though in an ironic way as my grandparents were able bodied and healthy but loved to complain about everything and I do mean everything. When I first read the original post it reminded me of them. Second, I believe the books to the bus thing you are refrencing was intended as a joke by the person who wrote it and yes I laughed at it because it seemed to me to be meant to lighten the mood.

I didn't intend to paint all younger people with a wide brush. It was a general statement that there is a general separation in age as to attitudes. You and Wayman and others, young and old, made some very good points.

I felt the school books commentary was a sick joke and insensitive.

And to be told " I will even help shovel you in", well that must have been written by a very young person.

This whole topic seems to have brought out some of the best and some of the worst in people.

Haha, well you certainly don't show your age when you quote me as "blah blah blah" which, by the way, shows me that you didn't bother reading the posts I make-- which demonstrates a rather ineffective view towards the world.

Because if you had actually bothered to read my post you would realize that what I say has logical sense. By acting the way you are you encourage people to create drama-filled situations in order to garner your sympathy. That would make somebody a tool. Are you a tool? I hope not. But certainly people must use you if you allow them to dig their own graves and then beg and plead to help them out.

I'll say it again:

I have NO (NONE, ZERO, NADA) sympathy for somebody who knowingly creates their own disfunction. Your mess is your mess, not mine. Somebody (many people) at that station were subjected to an unfortunate circumstance which should have passed. Instead we have a rant here by a person who decided to make her own situation even worse and then complain about it-- then people on this board have the nerve to make the situation even worse than she made it by offering her sympathy and genuine compassion for her "trauma".

Getting shot is a trauma.

Getting raped is a trauma.

Lord knows thousands of rapes happen every day, thousands of people are murdered every month, there are soldiers with shell shock and people who have lost their retirement thanks to a guy named Madoff. THAT IS TRAUMA.

If you, any of you by any and all strands of thought knowingly SUPPORT this woman's claim to trauma then you are doing an injustice to the suffering of people who actually have things in this world to complain about but silently take it-- YOU are allowing behavior that knowingly preys upon your emotions and insults the actual suffering of other people.

I feel compassion, guilt, sadness, the whole run of emotions on a daily basis to people who suffer because of external forces. None of you have the right to accuse me of not being empathetic-- and if we're talking about what's brought out the worst in some people I think we've seen it. We've seen several people offer genuine pity to a histrionic ranter and then dehumanize somebody who logically dissects the situation.

Grow up. ALL of you.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

Yet you continue to paint with a broad brush when you make statements like "must have been written by a young person".
I won't speak for ALC, but given his posts (in this topic and others) I suspect that him and I are very much alike in not suffering fools well. Prove yourself a decent person worth helping, and I'll go to the end of the road helping you out. However, attempt to take advantage, not play fair or at least try to pull your own weight, and not only will I cease to help you (lie in the grave that you've dug for yourself), but make sure that you get what's coming to you (help shovel you in). That's hardly a youthful attribute at all, in my experience age has no bearing on whether folks ascribe to that attitude or take a more "hands off" approach.

But, it's clear that you're stuck in the "youth == bad" and "age == good" paradigm, even by your comments in this most recent post. I wouldn't say that this has "brought out" the best/worst in anyone, but merely made it easier to see what's been there all along. No value judgment required.

Thank you, could not have said it better myself-- I give you credit for putting it the best way possible, something I have failed at apparently.

Do not suffer the fools.

Right on-- never let the fools distract you from the real issues we all have to face...

 

[JayPea]

Adding to the hubbub: I once worked for an old goat (which is actually insulting to goats) who in his rantings and ravings always started off with "You young people...." I was a younger person then and grew to resent his rantings about the young. I couldn't help being born when I was. Now that I am 49, I'd be flattered to be lumped in with young people!!!! :lol:

With this situation, I have never been in a situation where NO ONE offered to help. Not saying it didn't happen, I've just never seen it. It sounds as if things weren't up to working order at Birmingham. And checked luggage was promised there. I might have asked the reason for it, in a kind way. If I got my head bitten off for asking, that's THEIR problem, not mine. Without more details, it sure sounds like things could have been handled better.

Regarding accepting poor service: I certainly wouldn't accept it as is. I'd make sure to let Amtrak know about it. But I'm not sure throwing a fit right on the spot, as tempting as it might be, would do any good other than to elevate one's blood pressure. And make the problem worse. Best to count to 10 (or 100, or 1,000), cool off, and THEN let Amtrak know when you got back from your trip of the problems.

I don't know whether Ruth was giving an honest report, or if she was just ranting about a situation and made it sound worse than it was ,or what the deal was. I think if it were me I'd want to come back on here and clear up some misunderstandings. But that's me.

Bottom line: I wouldn't rush to judge ANYTHING without all the facts. And that includes the ages of posters here.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

Adding to the hubbub: I once worked for an old goat (which is actually insulting to goats) who in his rantings and ravings always started off with "You young people...." I was a younger person then and grew to resent his rantings about the young. I couldn't help being born when I was. Now that I am 49, I'd be flattered to be lumped in with young people!!!!

Age is just a number, gender is just a letter, race is just a word... Silly things we say "define" us that actually don't make us who we are.

We're individuals, judged on an individual basis by other individuals. It's sad when age, sex, and race and such are all that matter to some people-- it isn't traumatizing or something to take cause against, it is just society. But society can be disheartening.

You can express disheartening or sadness or anger, just leave the histrionics at home. Save the drama... for the stage.