Joel N. Weber II
Engineer
Why is it that commuter rail trains in the US don't ever seem to have a business class option? It's somehow seeming unlikely to me that it's really the case that nobody would want to pay for it if it were available.
When we paid for the Big Dig to be more lanes wide than the minimum Interstate Highway standard of four lanes, we were also subsidizing someone's luxury. I think I've been through those tunnels less than once a year since they opened.If I had to guess, it's probably because then you get into the idea that the public is now subsidizing someone's luxury. Granted that you could probably charge more than enough so that there actually wouldn't be any subsidy, but the critics would still try to claim it's happening. Besides most commuter ops are busy trying to figure out how to get more people into a car, not less.
The problem is that most of the public doesn't see it that way when we're talking about roads. But they do see it that way when we're talking about trains. There shouldn't be a difference, but there is.When we paid for the Big Dig to be more lanes wide than the minimum Interstate Highway standard of four lanes, we were also subsidizing someone's luxury. I think I've been through those tunnels less than once a year since they opened.If I had to guess, it's probably because then you get into the idea that the public is now subsidizing someone's luxury. Granted that you could probably charge more than enough so that there actually wouldn't be any subsidy, but the critics would still try to claim it's happening. Besides most commuter ops are busy trying to figure out how to get more people into a car, not less.
Yes, I'm sure it's a problem for many ops today. If you can't platform all the coaches, then you need more time for loading and especially unloading, and you'll end up with carryby's because of it. Put in bi-levels or multi-levels and you increase loading and unloading times.Is platform length vs train length really a huge problem for commuter ops these days? The MBTA Fitchburg Line trains that I see somewhat frequently are still single level, probably typically 4-5 coaches long.
Considering that it costs approximately the same to buy, maintain, and haul a "coach" trailer as a "business class" one, it seems to me that moving fewer people in a car isn't a great use of the car, even if you can get those people to pay more. There are some commuter railroads that simply can't add cars to service fast enough.Besides most commuter ops are busy trying to figure out how to get more people into a car, not less.
VRE recently acquired a bunch of brand new gallery cars from Nippon Sharyo. I believe gallery cars now make up 100% of their fleet.I have no idea how VRE is covering the set that they have returned.
Actually, I saw an outbound Fitchburg Line train on Sunday and another on Monday, and they were both 6 coaches behind the locomotive. (And since then I saw part of another train at Porter Square through the window while I was in the subway portion of the station, but didn't see the whole train, so I couldn't count it.)Is platform length vs train length really a huge problem for commuter ops these days? The MBTA Fitchburg Line trains that I see somewhat frequently are still single level, probably typically 4-5 coaches long.
The MARC do operate a few trains - the Perryville and Martinsburg trains - that could do with food service on board, for the long journeys.Back in 1994 MARC actually operated two parlor cars on its Brunswick line.
See "Riding the MARC Parlor Car" at http://www.bullsheet.com/news/199405.html
If the Rotem coaches are configured the same way as the existing (Kawasaki?) bi-levels, that sounds like loading/unloading will only get worse, since people will have to walk up and down multiple staircases to get to the one car where the door is open. (And given the number of high level platforms in the system, I can't imagine they wouldn't be built to be one level, at high level platform height, at the end of each car.)I ride the Newburyport/Rockport line on the MBTA and it is often 6 coaches. It sometimes takes 5 minutes to load/unload the car at the Salem station because of this (the only "platform" is at the the end of the station for one car. I can't imagine one of our coaches going business class - there are plenty of people standing as it is. We desperately need bi-level coaches or more seating on this line.
I haven't heard any talk about renovating the "station" (which is just a wind swept piece of land on a river that is bitterly cold). There is no building nor really any shelter there, either. I think that the town is jockeying hard for a parking garage, which is of course needed, especially with the new court house going in. Frankly, I don't care so much about the parking since I walk to the station every day, but I can see why it would be good for the downtown.If the Rotem coaches are configured the same way as the existing (Kawasaki?) bi-levels, that sounds like loading/unloading will only get worse, since people will have to walk up and down multiple staircases to get to the one car where the door is open. (And given the number of high level platforms in the system, I can't imagine they wouldn't be built to be one level, at high level platform height, at the end of each car.)I ride the Newburyport/Rockport line on the MBTA and it is often 6 coaches. It sometimes takes 5 minutes to load/unload the car at the Salem station because of this (the only "platform" is at the the end of the station for one car. I can't imagine one of our coaches going business class - there are plenty of people standing as it is. We desperately need bi-level coaches or more seating on this line.
Are they going to lengthen the platform at some point in the future? IIRC, most of the discussion for Salem tends to be about a new parking garage.
It's a little old, but I'll reply anyway. VRE AFAIK still owns a few Kawasaki Coaches and Cab Cars. I think a few may have been sold to MARC to supplement their fleet, but I think VRE still has a trainset or two. I don't know why VRE was so anxious to get rid of the Kawasaki Coaches, those things are so comfortable compared to the Gallery Cars.VRE recently acquired a bunch of brand new gallery cars from Nippon Sharyo. I believe gallery cars now make up 100% of their fleet.I have no idea how VRE is covering the set that they have returned.
Nope. According to VRE all consists are now made up of gallery cars, be they old ones or new ones.It's a little old, but I'll reply anyway. VRE AFAIK still owns a few Kawasaki Coaches and Cab Cars. I think a few may have been sold to MARC to supplement their fleet, but I think VRE still has a trainset or two. I don't know why VRE was so anxious to get rid of the Kawasaki Coaches, those things are so comfortable compared to the Gallery Cars.VRE recently acquired a bunch of brand new gallery cars from Nippon Sharyo. I believe gallery cars now make up 100% of their fleet.I have no idea how VRE is covering the set that they have returned.
You wouldn't have liked the sound of them anyhow. :lol: :lol: :lol:...still a little sad I didn't catch a Sounder set though.
I recall reading in the Star Ledger within the past year that the Jersey Shore Commuters Club is still going strong. Also, the Wikipedia entry for the North Jersey Coast Line also has some info on them.Also, there is a private group in NJ that for many years paid NJT to haul their private car on the bottom of one of NJT's commuter trains. I'm not sure if this is still happening though. Something in the back of my mind says that I recall reading a story that they finally gave up and disbanded.
Are the sectional sleeper tickets actually going to be cheaper than Amtrak roomettes when you consider that Amtrak roomettes are probably more subsidized than private sectional cars? Or you do have some way around that issue?Actually, one thing I've always wanted to do, business wise, was resurrect the Pullman company, or atleast their intent and model. Take over first class operation on the Acela for Amtrak, maybe. Buy all their sleepers and diners and operate them as separate operations. (And yeah, that would mean some increases in cost for food!) Buy the Amfleets as they went out of service (and perhaps some of the Heritage sleepers) and start operating a more extensive sleeping car network.
Use the Amfleets to introduce lie-flat open sleepers. Possibly buy some other old commuter cars (CDOT's Mafersa coaches would be a start) for conversion to sectional sleepers.
Is there some commuter agency I'm forgetting about that has way more track capacity than they know what to do with? MBTA Commuter Rail is near the limit on South Station capacity, and has significant amounts of single tracking which may prevent sigpnificant additions of north side service; NJT is unlikely to ever have spare capacity for such trains into Manhattan. Most of the rest of the commuter agencies seem to like running on freight tracks.Maybe even contract with the commuter agencies to pull a string of them as express trains from a few choice destinations on the route (the ones that afford such things) as an extra-fare train. Extra fast-extra fine-extra fare.
They also didn't support intermediate station stops at all, which severely limits the ability to use it for luxury transportation.Frankly, GrandeLuxe had the right idea with the GrandeLuxe Limited. They just over did it and charged far too much. Mark that up to Rader's incompetence. He had good ideas. He just isn't the right man to implement them.
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