Also keep in mind that in 1971 a sleeper ticket did not include meals in the dining car, one still had to pay for them separately. Today meals are included in the price of the ticket.I will be fair about the cost comparison. In 1971 a total Amtrak roomette fare from NYC to Chicago was $98.11 one way (source Amtrak fare book). In 2012 dollars that is $566.30. If we combine the coach fares to today's roomette prices, this comes out at approximately Amtrak high bucket. Conclusion: prices have held pretty much constant with inflation, which over that period averaged about 4.2%. Amtrak Sleepers are not more expensive than they were in 1971.
Inflation calculator is here:
Inflation calculator
The question is, ultimately, where do we draw the line for "middle of nowhere" and semi-populated rural areas? No, we shouldn't be investing in four-lane highways through the middle of nowhere just to serve some local populace, but there's relatively few instances where that's even happening. Most of our four-lane highways through rural areas support some kind of intercity traffic that demands a four-lane highway. Even the urban populace uses it from time to time, and intercity infrastructure is necessary to haul goods between cities. Two-lane tar roads are necessary to facilitate transportation, and that infrastructure is relatively built already and only requires maintenance. Expecting rural towns to have zero tar roads into them is not a good way to save money.Our population has been shifting in the same direction for a half century or more. Why shouldn't our tax expenditures follow the same general path?As to the point of "modern amenities in the middle of nowhere", I think that there is a marked difference between, on the one hand, ensuring that there is a viable infrastructure in place in areas such as Wyoming and North Dakota, or decent ground transportation links between Omaha and Denver, instead of having to go back and rebuild large chunks of the system every time there's a resource boom or a population shift.
What would you say if we changed the rules so that no urban resident had to pay for any exclusively rural subsidies and no rural resident had to pay for any exclusively urban subsidies?I'd also take pains to point out that there are probably plenty of rural taxpayers who want to know why they're being asked to pitch in for urban mass transit that there's not even a city in their state that could qualify for grants for.
So it is not surprising that as they were not making money then, they are not making money now either. Sad.Also keep in mind that in 1971 a sleeper ticket did not include meals in the dining car, one still had to pay for them separately. Today meals are included in the price of the ticket.I will be fair about the cost comparison. In 1971 a total Amtrak roomette fare from NYC to Chicago was $98.11 one way (source Amtrak fare book). In 2012 dollars that is $566.30. If we combine the coach fares to today's roomette prices, this comes out at approximately Amtrak high bucket. Conclusion: prices have held pretty much constant with inflation, which over that period averaged about 4.2%. Amtrak Sleepers are not more expensive than they were in 1971.
Inflation calculator is here:
Inflation calculator
There is a sales sheet with key dates on the Pullman Rail Journeys website. The schedule calls for the Pullman website to premier in June, so that is likely when the formal marketing photos of the interiors and cars will be posted. Reservations will be taken starting in August. The reason for no interior photos yet could be is that they are still working on refurbing the cars and redoing the interiors.On a different note: Are there pictures of the interiors of these cars or even artist renderings that are public? Would love to see the insides (and dream a bit!)
What does it tend to cost per-person either per-day or per-round-trip for the OBS on something like this?There is a sales sheet with key dates on the Pullman Rail Journeys website. The schedule calls for the Pullman website to premier in June, so that is likely when the formal marketing photos of the interiors and cars will be posted. Reservations will be taken starting in August. The reason for no interior photos yet could be is that they are still working on refurbing the cars and redoing the interiors.On a different note: Are there pictures of the interiors of these cars or even artist renderings that are public? Would love to see the insides (and dream a bit!)
The sales sheet lists an average of 10 staff members per departure. They will have to sell a lot of rooms to pay for the staff.
Media and travel familiarization tours are planned for September. So travel agents and media people for the high end travel industry may get some free trips!
That's what I was thinking.That may be a market mistake on their part to not take on passengers on at least a couple of larger market stops in-between. This is such a different type of sleeper service from Amtrak offers is that it makes no sense for Amtrak to adjust their Viewliner sleeper assignments based on a 2 day week premium service schedule.
A lot of people (like the Amish) don't really farm to sell but produce most of what they need themselves. $10,000 in sales sounds enough to me to purchase all the things you can't make yourself.I believe it was a report on the 2007 Census of Agriculture that first opened my eyes to the number of "family farms" having less than $10,000 in sales. Does that sound like a fully functioning farm to you or does that sound like someone who is shooting for the absolute minimum amount of productive cropland and/or minimum number of livestock to receive their tax credit?
The staff size of 10 suggests that they will basically have 2 Sleeping Cars (1 SCA per car), a Lounge (1LSA + 1conductor) and a Diner (4SA + 2 Chefs) on each trip.The sales sheet lists an average of 10 staff members per departure. They will have to sell a lot of rooms to pay for the staff.
Are there still suffiecient spare unist available?I wonder if Amtrak will spring for a second P32ACDM on the NYP - ALB leg considering that the cars are claimed to be heavyweights.
For occasional use I am sure they could dig up one, say by subbing a P42 on a NFL train instead of it carry a P32 all the way, which they sometimes do.Are there still suffiecient spare unist available?I wonder if Amtrak will spring for a second P32ACDM on the NYP - ALB leg considering that the cars are claimed to be heavyweights.
We live in what could be arguably termed the most hyper-capitalistic society in the history of mankind. I hear what you're trying to say but I am not aware of any trade-averse population large enough to explain these numbers, including the Amish.A lot of people (like the Amish) don't really farm to sell but produce most of what they need themselves. $10,000 in sales sounds enough to me to purchase all the things you can't make yourself.I believe it was a report on the 2007 Census of Agriculture that first opened my eyes to the number of "family farms" having less than $10,000 in sales. Does that sound like a fully functioning farm to you or does that sound like someone who is shooting for the absolute minimum amount of productive cropland and/or minimum number of livestock to receive their tax credit?
Some of our justices on our supreme court made similar claims as they began to lay the groundwork for the eventual dismantling of the PPACA. It's true that there are millions of Americans who live without any conventional trade to their name, but most of these folks are not avoiding trade as part of a conscious decision. They are without trade because they are destitute and/or because they are incarcerated. In other words they are not likely to be running any family farms or showing up in any agriculture report that doesn't revolve around controlled substances.If you value freedom above capitalism, you will agree that nobody has to trade if they don't need to.
If Pullman Sleeper sticks to the routes shown in their brochure, the Pullman cars will be added to the northbound LSL only 2 days a week. The eastbound trip would be via Pittsburgh and Philly. So a second P32ACDM 2 days a week on the northbound leg only should not present much of an additional equipment load. Although they would end up with an additional P32 in Albany, but they can shuffle the engines around.Are there still suffiecient spare unist available?I wonder if Amtrak will spring for a second P32ACDM on the NYP - ALB leg considering that the cars are claimed to be heavyweights.
Noting that due to the schedules, such a unit would not really be avaliable for any other meaningful use.
Also, am I the only one to find it surprising they want to start in November? That's not exactly prime travelling season and they may find the path to breaking even very long.
They do a lot of P32 shuffling at Albany anyway, since it is the home base for P32s and they have to change out P42s for P32s for several trains headed to Penn Station each day and vice versa.Although they would end up with an additional P32 in Albany, but they can shuffle the engines around.
When they figure out that their customers have figured it out, it will change.Am I the only one bothered by the high prices for the second passenger in a room?
Once a room is purchased the additional costs of adding another person (even if food is included) are small. That is why Amtrak only charges the rail fare when you add an additional person to a room.
I understand charging $1050 for the room with one person, but to ask an additional $900 for a second person sounds ridiculous. At that point I might as well get another room.
This actually also shows up in the B/C accommodation costs: For one person, it seems to (under some circumstances, at least) be identical in cost to book one person in a single bedroom as to book one person in a double bedroom...which makes no sense whatsoever. If anything, the fare structure seems to encourage lone travelers to go with level B and couples to go with level C (rather than vice-versa). Note that none of the figures involve a single supplement (at least, as far as I can tell).When they figure out that their customers have figured it out, it will change.Am I the only one bothered by the high prices for the second passenger in a room?
Once a room is purchased the additional costs of adding another person (even if food is included) are small. That is why Amtrak only charges the rail fare when you add an additional person to a room.
I understand charging $1050 for the room with one person, but to ask an additional $900 for a second person sounds ridiculous. At that point I might as well get another room.
linky no workee here....The New Pullman company has now posted loads of new info on the service including accommodation prices. The cost of the Pullamn rail journeys are not inexpensive but it appears that they are providing a true first class experience.
I believe that the prices are only for sleepers. The cost of dining in probably additional.
Here it is:
Travel by Pullman
and here is the Pullman equipment roster
Pullman Roster
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