The New Pullman Sleeper prices are now posted

[afigg]

As for using the LSL eastbound .... on the eastbound tacked onto the LSL they'd have a somewhat serious problem at Penn Station with the tail of the train sticking out and fouling part of the A Interlocking ladder blocking access to tracks 1 through 4 completely, which would be entirely unacceptable. For the westbound the tail would still foul part of the interlocking in the east but much less severe consequences, since that will not make tracks 1 through 4 inaccessible any more than they already are from that end.

There really is no track available at Penn Station that is accessible from the Empire Connection that can hold 12 or 13 cars plus an engine or two AFAICT.

Ah, I had not heard nor thought about the problems an extra long LSL consist would have pulling into NYP from the Empire tunnel. Thanks for posting this. Now the plan to go eastbound on the CL & Pennsylvanian and westbound on the LSL makes sense. Interesting track interlocking and connector constraints are into play to add the Pullman service cars to the trains.

Are there any reported dates or ballpark guesses as to when Amtrak might start on and then complete the re-build of the A interlocking ladder? That would allow an eastbound LSL with the Pullman cars to access the 17 car long platforms.

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

No additional switch is needed in Pittsburgh to manage the car shuffling needed in the eastbound direction. The crossover that we hear about is needed for doing the same shuffle in reverse in the westbound direction. So the eastbound can already be run via Pittsburgh without any new crossover construction. Indeed I believe their preference might be to run it westbound via Pittsburgh too, if they could, but currently they can't.

As for using the LSL eastbound .... on the eastbound tacked onto the LSL they'd have a somewhat serious problem at Penn Station with the tail of the train sticking out and fouling part of the A Interlocking ladder blocking access to tracks 1 through 4 completely, which would be entirely unacceptable. For the westbound the tail would still foul part of the interlocking in the east but much less severe consequences, since that will not make tracks 1 through 4 inaccessible any more than they already are from that end.

There really is no track available at Penn Station that is accessible from the Empire Connection that can hold 12 or 13 cars plus an engine or two AFAICT.

Thank you Jis.

This is a much bigger problem, I wonder when they found out, and how there going to service NYC now? That is if they are even going to try.

However I did notice last time I grab the west bound Lake Shore Limited (On a Sunday) there was a very noticable lull in the action before the board call. Maybe it can stick out past the platform. Might not work during the week but....

 

[jis]

They won't have a problem running the way they plan to with 4 cars. Five will create problems I think. Eventually when the corssover is put in place at the westend of PGH they will be able to run it on the Cap and Pennsy both ways. The Pennsy has access to the longest platforms at NYP, so it will be no problem to place these cars on it. Besides going around the Horseshoe Curve is probably worth something afterall.

 

[Blackwolf]

Learned some rather troubling news about Pullman Rail Journeys while on the CZ this last Tuesday.

Had lunch while passing through Glenwood Springs with a gentleman and his wife, and learned that he was/is the shop foreman for one of Iowa Pacific's car shops. Long story short, he's laid off currently and the shop is closed as the company (specifically, Pullman Rail Journeys, though indirectly this is IP as well) is grappling with 26 million dollars worth of debt to get all the cars ready, hire crews and then pay Amtrak to get the CONO service started.

As of the first week of December, Pullman Rail Journeys have been indefinitely suspended. This is not a rumor; Amtrak has embargoed PRJ's entire rolling stock and currently cars are marooned in Chicago as well as New Orleans.

The reason for the embargo is, the week after Thanksgiving on a north-bound haul toward Chicago, the axle of one of he PRJ sleepers snapped. The man did not state which sleeper it was, but said it was a six-axle heavyweight and the axle that broke was the middle of the first truck. The event resulted in a minor derail, and luckily the train was traveling at low speeds when it occurred. The PRJ consist was set off at the nearest siding, the Amtrak operating crew refusing to pull the PRJ consist the rest of the way to Chicago. No word on what happened with the PRJ passengers, but a freight locomotive pulled the cars in question (including the one with the broken axle) the rest of the way to Chicago as a dead-head move.

Until a full investigation is completed, Amtrak has cancelled the contract for Pullman Rail Journeys.

Sad... Seems they might be done before ever really starting.

 

[MikefromCrete]

The last two cars of the Pullman consist were pulled (the car with the broken axle was second from the last) with the remaining Pulllman cars taken to Chicago. Reports said CN banned any Pullman cars from its tracks, perhaps Amtrak has also. Some really bad timing since the accident occurred on the first round trip on the CONO route.

 

[cirdan]

How sad.

Right now, the booking system still seems to be open.

I do hope they manage to get this fixed and get a service running. I was looking forward to travelling ... one day, maybe to celebrate some special occasion.

 

[dlagrua]

I would say that the Pullman service was an I'll conceived idea. Lightweight streamliners with NEW trucks would have been a far better option. Private varnish probably ride the rails often but for a 3X weekly service they may need to run on new wheel truck assemblies. Nothing wrong with running historic/heritage equipment as Amtrak does it every day but it must be rebuild properly

 

[Ctim2]

I thought I heard that they were running with borrowed PV equipment?

Tim

 

[Agent]

I thought I heard that they were running with borrowed PV equipment?

Tim

That's what I heard.

 

[TVRM610]

I'm very interested to see what happens with this company.... I've never really understood the goal. It seems to me they would be better off running a first class train on a route that is not served by Amtrak but would be marketable to travelers with money... Like Chicago to Tampa via Atlanta and Orlando. Then the sales pitch is "take the fancy train to florida" rather that "ride our fancy train instead of Amtrak".

What I have heard is that Pullman isn't trying for luxury as much as a historic Pullman experience. Which of course by its very nature is first class.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

I'm very interested to see what happens with this company.... I've never really understood the goal. It seems to me they would be better off running a first class train on a route that is not served by Amtrak but would be marketable to travelers with money... Like Chicago to Tampa via Atlanta and Orlando. Then the sales pitch is "take the fancy train to florida" rather that "ride our fancy train instead of Amtrak".

What I have heard is that Pullman isn't trying for luxury as much as a historic Pullman experience. Which of course by its very nature is first class.

I agree. I don't think this will end up working out. These private trains without subsides keep on failing. That heavyweight sleeper definately needed a new truck, maybe it's not so bad on the lightweights.

 

[MikefromCrete]

I'm very interested to see what happens with this company.... I've never really understood the goal. It seems to me they would be better off running a first class train on a route that is not served by Amtrak but would be marketable to travelers with money... Like Chicago to Tampa via Atlanta and Orlando. Then the sales pitch is "take the fancy train to florida" rather that "ride our fancy train instead of Amtrak".

What I have heard is that Pullman isn't trying for luxury as much as a historic Pullman experience. Which of course by its very nature is first class.

It's a lot easier to add cars to an existing Amtrak train than to arrange passage with a freight railroad over a non-passenger route, provide for locomotives, crews, etc. The company would have to have success with its initial routes before adding expensive standalone service.

 

[Anderson]

I'm very interested to see what happens with this company.... I've never really understood the goal. It seems to me they would be better off running a first class train on a route that is not served by Amtrak but would be marketable to travelers with money... Like Chicago to Tampa via Atlanta and Orlando. Then the sales pitch is "take the fancy train to florida" rather that "ride our fancy train instead of Amtrak".

What I have heard is that Pullman isn't trying for luxury as much as a historic Pullman experience. Which of course by its very nature is first class.

I agree. I don't think this will end up working out. These private trains without subsides keep on failing. That heavyweight sleeper definately needed a new truck, maybe it's not so bad on the lightweights.

On its own, AOE wasn't a failure and didn't collapse because of a lack of business...it failed because of corporate mishandling elsewhere in the company. Big difference, and a meaningful difference at that.

 

[TVRM610]

It's a lot easier to add cars to an existing Amtrak train than to arrange passage with a freight railroad over a non-passenger route, provide for locomotives, crews, etc. The company would have to have success with its initial routes before adding expensive standalone service.

Oh yes I agree. I know that the current service was / is a test for future services. I just think that IF they want to continue in the future it would make more sense to start a new service. I know I would be much more inclined to pay a higher fare if I got to ride a route that I can't ride any other way.

For what it's worth... the company does own some old classic passenger locomotives that are usable on the mainline (they were used when they ran dinner trains out of Chicago Union Station). Of course the locomotives are the easy part compared to scheduling with freight railroads etc.

 

[TVRM610]

I'm very interested to see what happens with this company.... I've never really understood the goal. It seems to me they would be better off running a first class train on a route that is not served by Amtrak but would be marketable to travelers with money... Like Chicago to Tampa via Atlanta and Orlando. Then the sales pitch is "take the fancy train to florida" rather that "ride our fancy train instead of Amtrak".

What I have heard is that Pullman isn't trying for luxury as much as a historic Pullman experience. Which of course by its very nature is first class.

I agree. I don't think this will end up working out. These private trains without subsides keep on failing. That heavyweight sleeper definately needed a new truck, maybe it's not so bad on the lightweights.

On its own, AOE wasn't a failure and didn't collapse because of a lack of business...it failed because of corporate mishandling elsewhere in the company. Big difference, and a meaningful difference at that.

Can I ask for more details? I never really knew why AOE ended... or the Grande Luxe after them... any details you can share? (feel free to PM me if it would go terribly off topic)

 

[Anderson]

I'm very interested to see what happens with this company.... I've never really understood the goal. It seems to me they would be better off running a first class train on a route that is not served by Amtrak but would be marketable to travelers with money... Like Chicago to Tampa via Atlanta and Orlando. Then the sales pitch is "take the fancy train to florida" rather that "ride our fancy train instead of Amtrak".

What I have heard is that Pullman isn't trying for luxury as much as a historic Pullman experience. Which of course by its very nature is first class.

I agree. I don't think this will end up working out. These private trains without subsides keep on failing. That heavyweight sleeper definately needed a new truck, maybe it's not so bad on the lightweights.

On its own, AOE wasn't a failure and didn't collapse because of a lack of business...it failed because of corporate mishandling elsewhere in the company. Big difference, and a meaningful difference at that.

Can I ask for more details? I never really knew why AOE ended... or the Grande Luxe after them... any details you can share? (feel free to PM me if it would go terribly off topic)

Ok, this is just my understanding, but I believe that AOE/Grand Luxe got merged in with Colorado Railcar (I'm not 100% certain it was Colorado, but that's the name that comes to mind). Colorado got into trouble due to management issues, Grand Luxe's reserve funds got raided, and the whole thing went bust when the money ran out, with the luxury passenger operation (which I believe was still viable) getting dragged down.

Also, I'd point out that AOE/Grand Luxe did last about 20 years...while it went belly up in the end, I'd bet that the original owners/investors didn't do too badly for themselves.

 

[AlanB]

I'm not sure if Tom Rader was the original owner of AOE or not. I think he was, but again I'm not sure. Regardless Tom was also responsible for the Florida Fun Train many years ago. After that failed, he setup Rader Railcar, which then became Colorado Rail Car. I'm not sure if he actually raided the funds from Grand Luxe, but regardless as CRC failed, it pulled down the entire empire including Grand Luxe. I suspect that Grand Luxe's attempts to run cars on the back of Amtrak trains like the company that started off this topic, may have also hurt, as those runs did not sell well at all. Most ended up being cancelled. I tried booking one, and it was cancelled when I called. They did run a few trips, but a majority were cancelled before they ever ran.

I personally thought that they picked the wrong time of the year to start operations. I'm not sure if they would have succeeded had they started in the summer, but starting around the Thanksgiving/Christmas holiday period I believe caused some of the sales issues.

The State of Oregon actually had to step in and prop up CRC for almost a year, just so they could get their DMU's finished and out of the shop so that they could start their commuter service.

 

[TVRM610]

So was AOE and Grand Luxe the same company? I assumed Grand Luxe was someone purchasing the remains of AOE when it failed. I guess I never thought someone would "rebrand" a company with such a great name as AOE to something so dull.

 

[Anderson]

So was AOE and Grand Luxe the same company? I assumed Grand Luxe was someone purchasing the remains of AOE when it failed. I guess I never thought someone would "rebrand" a company with such a great name as AOE to something so dull.

That's something I've never been clear on, either. I know there was a succession, but I'm not sure how it went.

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

So was AOE and Grand Luxe the same company? I assumed Grand Luxe was someone purchasing the remains of AOE when it failed. I guess I never thought someone would "rebrand" a company with such a great name as AOE to something so dull.

No American Orient Express and Grand Luxe were different companies. When AOE shut down the equipment was sold to the next operator which named it "Grand Luxe". They could not use the name AOE due to pending legal action from the European train operator.

Also there was two version of AOE. 1st try was high-end rooms and dinning on the tail of Amtrak train. 2nd was the land cruise. Then the equipment was sold to Colorado Railcar family renamed "Grand Luxe". The equipment is currently getting rebuild again for the Greenburg express.

Google is your friend on this sad story line.