Baggage car removed from Sunset Limited / Texas Eagle

[TinCan782]

In San Antonio this morning (10/14) #22 has a standard baggage. #2 still has the baggage as I reported earlier. (From what I could see in the dark from my bedroom window.)

 

[TinCan782]

The baggage on 22 is 61023

 

[KnightRail]

Full VII baggage car seems to regularly be going on 1 & 2 again. No insight as to why it was halted/resumed though.

 

[TiBike]

It doesn't look like Amtrak thinks baggage cars are back, at least not on a consistent basis. Just checked Tucson to LA for several dates in October and November – zero bicycle spaces available.

 

[AutoTrDvr]

One potential impact for losing the baggage car on any triain is for those who need to transport "restricted items requiring the secure cage..." (read: Firearms). I gather that those alternate baggage services (i.e. Viewliner II sleepers with a baggage section) don't have a secure cage??? My understanding of the policy is that said restricted items can only be transported on trains that have a baggage car with a secure cage and that they be declared and properly checked in/out and put in the secure cage while being transported. It's why, for example, said "restricted items" cannot be transported on the "Auto Train" because there is no baggage car (one isn't needed since the expectation is that one uses their own vehicle for baggage storage, and those can't be 'secured"). Also why they can't be transported on the Acela and other NEC services and other short distance/commuter routes, etc.

 

[cpotisch]

...(i.e. Viewliner II sleepers with a baggage section) don't have a secure cage???...

You are thinking of the new baggage-dorms, which are half baggage car and half crew dorm (eight roomettes). I don't know exactly what a "secure cage" is, but the bag-dorms seem just as secure as a full baggage car.

 

[KnightRail]

...(i.e. Viewliner II sleepers with a baggage section) don't have a secure cage???...

You are thinking of the new baggage-dorms, which are half baggage car and half crew dorm (eight roomettes). I don't know exactly what a "secure cage" is, but the bag-dorms seem just as secure as a full baggage car.

Translation: Gun locker

 

[ehbowen]

It doesn't look like Amtrak thinks baggage cars are back, at least not on a consistent basis. Just checked Tucson to LA for several dates in October and November – zero bicycle spaces available.

Now, doesn't that sound just like Amtrak...run the baggage cars, but don't announce or offer the services only they can provide (bicycle spaces and Amtrak Express). The next logical step is to say that there's no demand for them.

 

[cpotisch]

...(i.e. Viewliner II sleepers with a baggage section) don't have a secure cage???...

You are thinking of the new baggage-dorms, which are half baggage car and half crew dorm (eight roomettes). I don't know exactly what a "secure cage" is, but the bag-dorms seem just as secure as a full baggage car.

Translation: Gun locker

Thanks. Do the bag-dorms have gun lockers, then?

 

[AutoTrDvr]

...(i.e. Viewliner II sleepers with a baggage section) don't have a secure cage???...

You are thinking of the new baggage-dorms, which are half baggage car and half crew dorm (eight roomettes). I don't know exactly what a "secure cage" is, but the bag-dorms seem just as secure as a full baggage car.

Translation: Gun locker

Yes, that is what I meant. I did not mean to sound so cryptic, but I do understand it's a politically touchy subject for some. And all the Amtrak personnel to whom I've spoken about it always referred to it as the "Secure cage" because you can store other things in it (that need that treatment) besides guns.

Anyway, I heard a lot of talk about this from Auto Train riders that are pi$$ed that firearms aren't allowed on the Auto Train as they seem to be on other LD trains. The reason being, there is no baggage car with a gun locker. No need for a full baggage car since one's "checked" baggage would be their car and all its contents. And, since you can't lock your car when it's on the Auto train (and since there's no Amtrak employee maintaining guard/custody of it), they can't allow firearms transport on the Auto Train. Not "officially," anyway. Some do take the risk and transport them anyway, usually in locked containers within their vehicle, if not a locked trunk). But if the dog alerts on their car in Lorton, they'll get the "Shake & Bake" and they won't be having the best of days, thereafter.

 

[Tennessee Traveler]

Someone did post a video on Facebook today of the Sunset Limited of the 18th without the baggage car so at least the Sunset Limited is running without a baggage car. It did have the transition sleeper and one sleeper on the Sunset Limited portion of the consist and one or two coaches.

 

[cpotisch]

Someone did post a video on Facebook today of the Sunset Limited of the 18th without the baggage car so at least the Sunset Limited is running without a baggage car. It did have the transition sleeper and one sleeper on the Sunset Limited portion of the consist and one or two coaches.

According to FrensicPic and Knightrail (who works for Amtrak), this is not the case.

Sunset Limited #2(12) in rainy Tuscon Sat 10/13 AM with baggage 61058.

20181013_085810.jpeg

Full VII baggage car seems to regularly be going on 1 & 2 again. No insight as to why it was halted/resumed though.

 

[B&Ofan]

I just child checked in to 2 SL with my bicycle and the made me put it in a box because there is no baggage car.

 

[TiBike]

I just child checked in to 2 SL with my bicycle and the made me put it in a box because there is no baggage car.

That sucks. Just rode from San Jose to Walnut Creek, via Caltrain and BART, and watched a Capitol Corridor do its thing. Bikes, kick scooters and electric scooters -- sit down and stand up types -- all carried on without drama, delays or an employee getting bent. No reason (other than laziness) for Amtrak long distance staff to behave any differently. But they do.

 

[Triley]

I just child checked in to 2 SL with my bicycle and the made me put it in a box because there is no baggage car.

That sucks. Just rode from San Jose to Walnut Creek, via Caltrain and BART, and watched a Capitol Corridor do its thing. Bikes, kick scooters and electric scooters -- sit down and stand up types -- all carried on without drama, delays or an employee getting bent. No reason (other than laziness) for Amtrak long distance staff to behave any differently. But they do.

There's no where to secure it in the bag/coaches....don't you think Amtrak would take your money if they could?

 

[cpotisch]

I just child checked in to 2 SL with my bicycle and the made me put it in a box because there is no baggage car.

That sucks. Just rode from San Jose to Walnut Creek, via Caltrain and BART, and watched a Capitol Corridor do its thing. Bikes, kick scooters and electric scooters -- sit down and stand up types -- all carried on without drama, delays or an employee getting bent. No reason (other than laziness) for Amtrak long distance staff to behave any differently. But they do.

You are making a pretty bold statement here. You do know that the Capitol Corridor is state funded and uses significantly different equipment than Amtrak proper. Maybe check this stuff before making an umbrella statement about how Amtrak staff don't have any other reason to behave like this other than laziness.

 

[TiBike]

I just child checked in to 2 SL with my bicycle and the made me put it in a box because there is no baggage car.

That sucks. Just rode from San Jose to Walnut Creek, via Caltrain and BART, and watched a Capitol Corridor do its thing. Bikes, kick scooters and electric scooters -- sit down and stand up types -- all carried on without drama, delays or an employee getting bent. No reason (other than laziness) for Amtrak long distance staff to behave any differently. But they do.

There's no where to secure it in the bag/coaches....don't you think Amtrak would take your money if they could?

Depends what you mean by "secure it". If you mean a purpose-designed bike rack, you are correct. Amtrak has not bothered to install any on long distance trains other than in the Viewliner 2 baggage cars. There's no reason they couldn't – bike racks are installed in all kinds of cars on state services, including coaches.

If you mean there's no place where it's possible to secure a bike without a purpose built rack on a long distance train, that's not true. All you need is a bungee cord – before they increased the bike capacity on Capitol Corridor trains, they sold them in the cafe (they still might). It doesn't take much to accomodate a bike – there's plenty of room in baggage cars, in the lower level of Superliners and in various places elsewhere.

Every Amtrak California train accommodates bikes, despite the wide variety of equipment (including single level trains), more frequent and briefer stops, less space and far better on time performance. European, Asian and Antipodean trains manage the same trick. BART does it with zero on board bike facilities, Metrolink with a few racks installed in coaches, Caltrain with dedicated cars. Bus drivers figure it out, despite far, far less space.

There is no physical reason bikes can't be carried on long distance trains, and loaded/unloaded at every stop. All it takes is a willingness on the part of LD management to install the necessary equipment and a willingness on the part of on board LD staff to either use it when it's there, or exert the effort to deal with it when its not. I haven't seen any of that.

 

[Amtrakfflyer]

Almost any city bus takes bikes nowadays, the bike owner just snaps it in place under the windshield of the bus takes 60 seconds. Amtrak could find a way instead more revenue left off the table.

 

[Triley]

I just child checked in to 2 SL with my bicycle and the made me put it in a box because there is no baggage car.

That sucks. Just rode from San Jose to Walnut Creek, via Caltrain and BART, and watched a Capitol Corridor do its thing. Bikes, kick scooters and electric scooters -- sit down and stand up types -- all carried on without drama, delays or an employee getting bent. No reason (other than laziness) for Amtrak long distance staff to behave any differently. But they do.

There's no where to secure it in the bag/coaches....don't you think Amtrak would take your money if they could?

Depends what you mean by "secure it". If you mean a purpose-designed bike rack, you are correct. Amtrak has not bothered to install any on long distance trains other than in the Viewliner 2 baggage cars. There's no reason they couldn't – bike racks are installed in all kinds of cars on state services, including coaches.

If you mean there's no place where it's possible to secure a bike without a purpose built rack on a long distance train, that's not true. All you need is a bungee cord – before they increased the bike capacity on Capitol Corridor trains, they sold them in the cafe (they still might). It doesn't take much to accomodate a bike – there's plenty of room in baggage cars, in the lower level of Superliners and in various places elsewhere.

Every Amtrak California train accommodates bikes, despite the wide variety of equipment (including single level trains), more frequent and briefer stops, less space and far better on time performance. European, Asian and Antipodean trains manage the same trick. BART does it with zero on board bike facilities, Metrolink with a few racks installed in coaches, Caltrain with dedicated cars. Bus drivers figure it out, despite far, far less space.

There is no physical reason bikes can't be carried on long distance trains, and loaded/unloaded at every stop. All it takes is a willingness on the part of LD management to install the necessary equipment and a willingness on the part of on board LD staff to either use it when it's there, or exert the effort to deal with it when its not. I haven't seen any of that.

But if they put it in a place that is not made to physically secure it (and they attach it somehow with a bungee?), what happens if the bungee snaps and falls over, damaging your bike? You'd probably go demanding they repair or replace your bike, since they should be liable.
Furthermore, have you ever been in the baggage section of a bag/coach? From what I recall there's literally nothing to attach a bungee cord to, currently. And where is the "plenty of room in the lower level of the Superliners and various other places?" I mean, even if one COULD get a bike up the stairs there's no where to store it. Are you suggesting it go in to the lower level coach seating area?

To clarify, I'm not talking about places where money could be spent to install bike hooks. I am talking about space where you say it could be accommodated as the equipment is right now.

 

[cpotisch]

I just child checked in to 2 SL with my bicycle and the made me put it in a box because there is no baggage car.

That sucks. Just rode from San Jose to Walnut Creek, via Caltrain and BART, and watched a Capitol Corridor do its thing. Bikes, kick scooters and electric scooters -- sit down and stand up types -- all carried on without drama, delays or an employee getting bent. No reason (other than laziness) for Amtrak long distance staff to behave any differently. But they do.

There's no where to secure it in the bag/coaches....don't you think Amtrak would take your money if they could?

Depends what you mean by "secure it". If you mean a purpose-designed bike rack, you are correct. Amtrak has not bothered to install any on long distance trains other than in the Viewliner 2 baggage cars. There's no reason they couldn't – bike racks are installed in all kinds of cars on state services, including coaches.

If you mean there's no place where it's possible to secure a bike without a purpose built rack on a long distance train, that's not true. All you need is a bungee cord – before they increased the bike capacity on Capitol Corridor trains, they sold them in the cafe (they still might). It doesn't take much to accomodate a bike – there's plenty of room in baggage cars, in the lower level of Superliners and in various places elsewhere.

Every Amtrak California train accommodates bikes, despite the wide variety of equipment (including single level trains), more frequent and briefer stops, less space and far better on time performance. European, Asian and Antipodean trains manage the same trick. BART does it with zero on board bike facilities, Metrolink with a few racks installed in coaches, Caltrain with dedicated cars. Bus drivers figure it out, despite far, far less space.

There is no physical reason bikes can't be carried on long distance trains, and loaded/unloaded at every stop. All it takes is a willingness on the part of LD management to install the necessary equipment and a willingness on the part of on board LD staff to either use it when it's there, or exert the effort to deal with it when its not. I haven't seen any of that.

So your logic is that because you think bungie cords or something like it could be put in relatively easily, when Amtrak doesn't allow you to take your bike on a train that only has a coach-baggage car, they are just being lazy? Under that logic, if I go to the store and want a Twix bar, and they say they don't sell Twix bars, even though they technically have enough space to sell them, that employee is just being lazy. Do you see the flaw in this logic?

 

[ehbowen]

I just child checked in to 2 SL with my bicycle and the made me put it in a box because there is no baggage car.

That sucks. Just rode from San Jose to Walnut Creek, via Caltrain and BART, and watched a Capitol Corridor do its thing. Bikes, kick scooters and electric scooters -- sit down and stand up types -- all carried on without drama, delays or an employee getting bent. No reason (other than laziness) for Amtrak long distance staff to behave any differently. But they do.

There's no where to secure it in the bag/coaches....don't you think Amtrak would take your money if they could?

Depends what you mean by "secure it". If you mean a purpose-designed bike rack, you are correct. Amtrak has not bothered to install any on long distance trains other than in the Viewliner 2 baggage cars. There's no reason they couldn't – bike racks are installed in all kinds of cars on state services, including coaches.

If you mean there's no place where it's possible to secure a bike without a purpose built rack on a long distance train, that's not true. All you need is a bungee cord – before they increased the bike capacity on Capitol Corridor trains, they sold them in the cafe (they still might). It doesn't take much to accomodate a bike – there's plenty of room in baggage cars, in the lower level of Superliners and in various places elsewhere.

Every Amtrak California train accommodates bikes, despite the wide variety of equipment (including single level trains), more frequent and briefer stops, less space and far better on time performance. European, Asian and Antipodean trains manage the same trick. BART does it with zero on board bike facilities, Metrolink with a few racks installed in coaches, Caltrain with dedicated cars. Bus drivers figure it out, despite far, far less space.

There is no physical reason bikes can't be carried on long distance trains, and loaded/unloaded at every stop. All it takes is a willingness on the part of LD management to install the necessary equipment and a willingness on the part of on board LD staff to either use it when it's there, or exert the effort to deal with it when its not. I haven't seen any of that.

So your logic is that because you think bungie cords or something like it could be put in relatively easily, when Amtrak doesn't allow you to take your bike on a train that only has a coach-baggage car, they are just being lazy? Under that logic, if I go to the store and want a Twix bar, and they say they don't sell Twix bars, even though they technically have enough space to sell them, that employee is just being lazy. Do you see the flaw in this logic?

It seems to me that his thinking is more along the lines of looking at each train as an individual store and Amtrak as a whole as the store chain. The chain advertises that they sell Twix bars; they print in their advertisements how easy and convenient and cheap it is to buy a Twix bar; but when you go to certain of the stores...which do have shelf space available...they say, "Aaah, we don't carry Twix bars at this location." Changes the calculus a bit, I think. And I don't even like Twix bars (actually, I do; what I'm saying is that I've never yet traveled with a bicycle).

 

[TiBike]

But if they put it in a place that is not made to physically secure it (and they attach it somehow with a bungee?), what happens if the bungee snaps and falls over, damaging your bike? You'd probably go demanding they repair or replace your bike, since they should be liable.
Furthermore, have you ever been in the baggage section of a bag/coach? From what I recall there's literally nothing to attach a bungee cord to, currently. And where is the "plenty of room in the lower level of the Superliners and various other places?" I mean, even if one COULD get a bike up the stairs there's no where to store it. Are you suggesting it go in to the lower level coach seating area?

To clarify, I'm not talking about places where money could be spent to install bike hooks. I am talking about space where you say it could be accommodated as the equipment is right now.

It's easy to come up with "what ifs", and easy to solve them one by one. Liability? It doesn't take much to learn how to bungee a bike to a railing or a luggage rack or any hole you can fit a hook into. But the better answer is to let passengers secure their own bikes and take responsibility for it, like they do on Amtrak corridor trains, and commuter trains and buses.

Where do passengers (or crew, if you prefer) secure bikes? Unless the inside of a coach bag is 100% smooth sheet metal, there's a way to tie up a bike. It doesn't take much. But okay, let's say it's not possible to use a coach bag.

First place to look is the lower level of Superliners – there's unused space there. Some have sections with few or no seats that are used as baggage holding areas. The ones I've looked at have enough random hardware and/or rough edges to hook a bungee cord. (It's also a no brainer location to install a bike rack or two).

No Superliner with big empty, spaces on the bottom? How about any space where wheelchairs are accommodated. If you can fit a wheelchair, you can fit a bicycle. They share the same space on buses and BART in northern California and the world hasn't ended.

If that's not feasible, look behind the last row of seats in a coach or alongside luggage racks (vertically or horizontally). There are a lot of dead spaces in long distance cars – coaches and sleepers – that might not look to a non-cyclist like a place you can put a bike, but cyclists see them.

In France, on high speed trains that are a lot more tightly designed than Amtrak equipment, the solution is to put a bag over the bike (a "housse") and lift it up onto the top of a baggage rack, removing a wheel if necessary.

Taken in isolation, there can be problems with any single solution. But taken together, there are good options that will work most of the time and bad options for making do the rest of the time. Maybe a bike has to be shifted from one option to another en route as circumstances change.

There might be edge cases where accomodating a bike is a pain, but it's possible. LD trains have more space and more time (at and between stations) than corridor trains or public transit. Yet they solve it everyday – I'm writing this while sitting on BART, watching passengers with bikes on a crowded train with no racks. Admittedly, it's taken BART 40 years to get to this point – back then, you had to go to HQ and get a permit, complete with photo ID, to bring a bike onboard at strictly limited times on particular cars. Staff had more objections than you can imagine. But in the end, it all worked out.

The real answer, though, is to install racks in coaches, and maybe even sleepers. If it can be done on a corridor, it can be done on an LD train. Money shouldn't be a problem – racks aren't expensive and there is a lot of money available for transportation related bike facilities. And plenty of bicycle advocacy groups happy to help.

 

[PaulM]

The bike discussion reminds me of the same arguments being made for many years before the Capitol Limited began carry-on bike service. Once it finally started, it was a no-brainer, not the cross between rocket science and brain surgery that the cons made it seem like. An the conductors couldn't have been more cordial about it.

It's been 3 years since I used it. I hope the service hasn't been eliminated.

 

[IndyLions]

I know it’s a state funded train - but the Hoosier State started supporting bikes. I read that on this forum, and took a day trip from Crawfordsville IN to CHI.

Since in theory bike support had just started, I didn’t know what to expect. Had special bike racks been added? Would the OBS even be aware that bikes were supported?

Here’s what I found on that trip. There were no special accommodations for bikes on the train, but in both directions the OBS and conductors had a completely “can do” attitude and made it work.

On the departure, the Hoosier State was deadheading sleepers from Beech Grove - and we stored my bike in the hallway of an empty sleeper. On the return, they put it in the rear area of Business Class, where I believe a wheelchair can be accommodated.

No drama, no freak out, no complaining - just great customer service. And largely because of their efforts I had one of my most memorable days of the summer - riding the train and bicycling for 40+ miles along Lake Michigan.

 

[Amtrakfflyer]

Cool!