Autotrain now "Mass Transit"

[yarrow]

i tend to agree with the op and his friend. amtrak is selling primarily transportation but it should be "a nice piece of merchandise" also. the recent cuts that boardman signed off on have little long or short term benefit that i can see

 

[Paulus]

Honestly, if you really care about the food based on the price you paid for travel, go take a flight to Florida instead and spend the money saved by doing so on a nice high end restaurant. Quite frankly, I really don't see why Amtrak should strive to provide anything better than Denny's quality.

I somewhat suspect that degrading food service and expectations is an intentional strategy by Amtrak to reduce complaints and increase satisfaction because the diners attract such an absurdly high number of complaints (as do the long distance trains in general; I should try and figure if it can be directly correlated with the number of sleeper passengers).

 

[rrdude]

A close friend of mine was on the Autotrain yesterday and had some very discouraging news to report. The menu selections have been cheapened to provide very low quality food. The steak is gone being replaced by a pot roast style two pieces of beef, the chicken was dry and tasteless and the mashed potatoes were poorer quality than cafeteria food. Coffee is now served in paper cups. My friend said that the dinner that he had at Bob Evans the week before was like eating gourmet food compared to what Amtrak served. The first meal sitting was at 4:30 and all passengers ate the same menu, both coach and sleeper.

There is now only one lounge car for the 490 people on board, and as previously reported no newspapers, ice, wine. cheese and snacks. The train arrived two hours early but anyone still waiting for breakfast was turned away . They had to wait 90 minutes for the car unloading crew to arrive and it took another 90 minutes to get their car.

This experience makes you wonder what you are paying $875 for one way in a bedroom and nearly $600 for a roomette. The atrocious decline in essential provisions is absolutely a low point in Amtrak Autotrain service. If I have to travel to Florida I will drive. We can dine on good food and even with the hotel stay we get there in just slightly more time.

Yup, our family, an over ten consequtive year Auto Train family, rode their last AT this past Spring, just after the changes were made. You nailed it Dlagrua. And they were serving dinner up to midnight too...

But as one of my restaurant customers told me years ago, "if you can get away with serving crap food, and you still have lines out the door, why spend money on better food products"? AT is doing the same thing now, and as long as it remains Sold Out, it won't change.

Truly, truly, a shame. I've gone from a life-long Amtrak supporter / promoter /advocate / enthusiast / NARP member, to more of a "Amtrak LD trains pretty much suck" kinda guy.

 

[rrdude]

Honestly, if you really care about the food based on the price you paid for travel, go take a flight to Florida instead and spend the money saved by doing so on a nice high end restaurant. Quite frankly, I really don't see why Amtrak should strive to provide anything better than Denny's quality.

I somewhat suspect that degrading food service and expectations is an intentional strategy by Amtrak to reduce complaints and increase satisfaction because the diners attract such an absurdly high number of complaints (as do the long distance trains in general; I should try and figure if it can be directly correlated with the number of sleeper passengers).

Trust me, "Denny's quality" would be a vast improvement over what I have had on the last few LD trips of mine. (AT and last week Silver Star. At least Denny's still serves on china, and uses glass glasses and real coffee mugs...

And yet, I am booked on the Coast Starlight in January, but only because of the PPC, scenery, and the dwindling possibility of dinner in the PPC.

I guess as I have aged, my tastes and expectations have changed: Not willing to put up with crap for good money paid.

Someone at work asked me about Amtrak bedrooms the other day, and my response was, "Well, it's far closer to roughing it when camping out, than it is like a cruise ship......."

Who agrees and disagrees with that statement?

 

[jimhudson]

Include me in the "disappointed" catagory when it comes to the nickel and dime cuts not just on the Auto Train but all LD Routes.

If someone can provide numbers showing how much these cuts actually save, or increase revenue I'm willing to look @ them but until then I'm from Missouri, Show me!

I did use hyberbole on my thousands of dollars comment re the Auto Train, but still feel that the downgrading of the Sleeper amenities is short sided, penny wise and pound foolish! I will not be using the AutoTrain again (it was a Very Pleasant Trip awhile back), if I have to go to Florida, (A good thing in the Winter! ) so maybe don't have a dog in this hunt! I will ride a Silver Train using AGR Points as jis suggested (but not for the Auto Train) or Fly. (last choice)

Guess well just have to agree to disagree on this, but I'm not giving up on my Secoond Love! :wub: (Passenger Rail!)

 

[jebr]

Someone at work asked me about Amtrak bedrooms the other day, and my response was, "Well, it's far closer to roughing it when camping out, than it is like a cruise ship......."

Who agrees and disagrees with that statement?

Disagree. I have running water, a hot shower, climate-controlled room, food provided for me that's already prepared and usually of a decent quality, coffee in the morning, bottled water (to some degree,) an attendant that will make my bed in the morning (and provide other services for me,) a bed that has actual cushions, a comfortable chair, etc. None of those are true when roughing it when camping.

The difference between Amtrak and a cruise ship is not what amenities are offered as much as it is about the quality of said amenities. Camping is still in a way different league, at least when roughing it. (Now, an RV with my own chef who will cook all my meals...)

 

[rrdude]

Someone at work asked me about Amtrak bedrooms the other day, and my response was, "Well, it's far closer to roughing it when camping out, than it is like a cruise ship......."

Who agrees and disagrees with that statement?

Disagree. I have running water, a hot shower, climate-controlled room, food provided for me that's already prepared and usually of a decent quality, coffee in the morning, bottled water (to some degree,) an attendant that will make my bed in the morning (and provide other services for me,) a bed that has actual cushions, a comfortable chair, etc. None of those are true when roughing it when camping.

The difference between Amtrak and a cruise ship is not what amenities are offered as much as it is about the quality of said amenities. Camping is still in a way different league, at least when roughing it. (Now, an RV with my own chef who will cook all my meals...)

Well, I guess the "RV" comparison would have been better.

But on the points you made above, none of these, in my experience, are all that reliable. Running water? OK. Hot Shower? If u r lucky. Climate Controlled Room? Again, if you are lucky.

Coffee, I agree, but in paper cups, at least camping I've got a thermal mug! And the attendant "to make my bed" is also a crap shoot.

What a waste, they designed and bought these GREAT Superliner cars, (Diners, SSL, and Sleepers) and they are so underutilized! (not from a capacity perspective, but from a "level of quality service they could provide" perspective...........)

 

[I always rode the Southern]

The train arrived two hours early but anyone still waiting for breakfast was turned away . They had to wait 90 minutes for the car unloading crew to arrive and it took another 90 minutes to get their car.

The train arrived early, and so they closed down the dining car equally early (stopped serving breakfast), even though they could not start to disembark passengers for another 90 minutes?

Is that normal procedures for an early Auto Train?

Generally, when a train arrives at it's terminus, the OBS (staff) is "off the clock".

Not on the auto train, the passengers cannot get off. Do you suggest the staff just walk off and leave the passengers to fend for themselves for an hour or more? Whenever that has happened to us, OBS, in the diner, and the SCA's have always continued to serve the passengers.

It actually is that I am not going to accept that the "pot roast style two pieces of beef" was bad based on just one report. True, the OP was looking forward to a steak, and possibly anything else would be an understandable let down.

One can serve good food, that isn't overly expensive or comes in overly large portions. A "pot roast style two pieces of beef" can be an enjoyable meal. I would not automatically label it as a reject.

In all my years of LD travel on Amtrak, I have never ordered the steak. I am pretty finicky when it comes to steak, and would only order such when I am at a restaurant that specializes in steaks, and I would dare to say that IMHO an Amtrak dining car isn't one of those. So, Amtrak dropping steak from its dinner menu isn't a major disaster to me as long as there are still other good tasting choices.

If you had read the original thread , I complained about the pot roast served on my last 3 trips, I believe rrdude also complained. And what made it such a disappointment is that the auto train served some of the best steak and baked potato and short ribs I have had(and I am as finicky about steak as you can get)

The poster above me raises a very good and valid point: Since the Auto Train is, if I'm not mistaken, now charging for wine (that may be something I've misheard), offering a better upcharged meal to all passengers (even if one needs to make a reservation at boarding) would not be a bad idea. I know that given the choice, I'd definitely pay $10 for steak over pot roast. Not sure about $30, but I'd definitely go for at least $10.

(I just looked over the menu. The Chicken Marsala seems like the best bet.

No, hold that thought. The Silver Meteor seems like the best bet.)

I would go for the $10 upcharge for the signature steak, but not the cheaper cuts now being served on the star and meteor.

What kills me is they are still serving an edible if not great steak on the other LD trains- AND a baked potato, but not on the auto train.

Gotta agree with Cliff! If you don't absolutely need your car in Florida, the Silver Trains are a better bet!

No excuse for nickel and dimeing when you're charging hundreds if not thousands of dollars for an overnight ride with one and a half meals!

We will also switch to the silvers and rent a car when possible. Most likely for good when the new viewliners arrive.

A close friend of mine was on the Autotrain yesterday and had some very discouraging news to report. The menu selections have been cheapened to provide very low quality food. The steak is gone being replaced by a pot roast style two pieces of beef, the chicken was dry and tasteless and the mashed potatoes were poorer quality than cafeteria food. Coffee is now served in paper cups. My friend said that the dinner that he had at Bob Evans the week before was like eating gourmet food compared to what Amtrak served. The first meal sitting was at 4:30 and all passengers ate the same menu, both coach and sleeper.

There is now only one lounge car for the 490 people on board, and as previously reported no newspapers, ice, wine. cheese and snacks. The train arrived two hours early but anyone still waiting for breakfast was turned away . They had to wait 90 minutes for the car unloading crew to arrive and it took another 90 minutes to get their car.

This experience makes you wonder what you are paying $875 for one way in a bedroom and nearly $600 for a roomette. The atrocious decline in essential provisions is absolutely a low point in Amtrak Autotrain service. If I have to travel to Florida I will drive. We can dine on good food and even with the hotel stay we get there in just slightly more time.

Yup, our family, an over ten consequtive year Auto Train family, rode their last AT this past Spring, just after the changes were made. You nailed it Dlagrua. And they were serving dinner up to midnight too...

But as one of my restaurant customers told me years ago, "if you can get away with serving crap food, and you still have lines out the door, why spend money on better food products"? AT is doing the same thing now, and as long as it remains Sold Out, it won't change.

Truly, truly, a shame. I've gone from a life-long Amtrak supporter / promoter /advocate / enthusiast / NARP member, to more of a "Amtrak LD trains pretty much suck" kinda guy.

I still love riding the trains, but I no longer encourage friends and family to do so because I know they won't tolerate the current level of service cuts

Honestly, if you really care about the food based on the price you paid for travel, go take a flight to Florida instead and spend the money saved by doing so on a nice high end restaurant. Quite frankly, I really don't see why Amtrak should strive to provide anything better than Denny's quality.

I somewhat suspect that degrading food service and expectations is an intentional strategy by Amtrak to reduce complaints and increase satisfaction because the diners attract such an absurdly high number of complaints (as do the long distance trains in general; I should try and figure if it can be directly correlated with the number of sleeper passengers).

Trust me, "Denny's quality" would be a vast improvement over what I have had on the last few LD trips of mine. (AT and last week Silver Star. At least Denny's still serves on china, and uses glass glasses and real coffee mugs...

And yet, I am booked on the Coast Starlight in January, but only because of the PPC, scenery, and the dwindling possibility of dinner in the PPC.

I guess as I have aged, my tastes and expectations have changed: Not willing to put up with crap for good money paid.

Someone at work asked me about Amtrak bedrooms the other day, and my response was, "Well, it's far closer to roughing it when camping out, than it is like a cruise ship......."

Who agrees and disagrees with that statement?

Totally agree. (bangs head repeatedly against wall)

 

[afigg]

Include me in the "disappointed" catagory when it comes to the nickel and dime cuts not just on the Auto Train but all LD Routes.

If someone can provide numbers showing how much these cuts actually save, or increase revenue I'm willing to look @ them but until then I'm from Missouri, Show me!

We have ridership, revenue and operating loss/surplus numbers from the monthly reports. The September 2014 report won't be released until next month, so we won't have a complete picture for FY2014 until then. Without getting into all the numbers for the first 11 months of FY2014, ridership and revenue for the AT is up (which can be attributed in large part to the additional coach car) and is up for the month of August for both coach and sleeper ridership.

According to the recent monthly reports, the AT has been decreasing its net operating loss for the year month to month since earlier in the FY, so it has been generating an operating surplus in recent months for the fully allocated operating costs (direct and overhead). The AT may end up just about breaking even for FY2014, which is not something any of the other LD trains can claim. We will have to see what FY15 brings, but it is appears likely that the AT will generate a net operating surplus for FY2015 over the fully loaded operating costs. Many may not be happy about the service and amenity cuts, but so far they have not hurt the bottom line.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Thank you for the info, I'm.still on the side of those expecting more than Coach Service with a bed on the Auto Train, but if people are willing to pay the tariff, good on them!

The nickel and diming really doesn't save any money, its a dog andponey show for the Micas in Congress but its still foolish and poor customer service!

 

[Guest]

Someone at work asked me about Amtrak bedrooms the other day, and my response was, "Well, it's far closer to roughing it when camping out, than it is like a cruise ship......."

Who agrees and disagrees with that statement?

Having done all three, multiple times, I think sleeper travel is closer to camping than cruising.

My roomette is closer in size to a tent, than to an oceanview cabin on a ship.

My "sleeping surface" is closer to a camp cot, than to the bed in a ship's cabin, like in mattress thickness and comfort.

My toilet and showering facilities are closer to what's found in a camp ground bathhouse, than to the bathroom in a ship's cabin.

The room TV is closer to what's found in a tent (like none), than what is found in a ship's cabin.

 

[seat38a]

Thank you for the info, I'm.still on the side of those expecting more than Coach Service with a bed on the Auto Train, but if people are willing to pay the tariff, good on them!

The nickel and diming really doesn't save any money, its a dog andponey show for the Micas in Congress but its still foolish and poor customer service!

They are the ones paying the bills so they must be pleased. Until the AT makes a profit, there will be ALOT of congregational tookus being pleased.

 

[jebr]

But on the points you made above, none of these, in my experience, are all that reliable. Running water? OK. Hot Shower? If u r lucky. Climate Controlled Room? Again, if you are lucky.

Coffee, I agree, but in paper cups, at least camping I've got a thermal mug! And the attendant "to make my bed" is also a crap shoot.

What a waste, they designed and bought these GREAT Superliner cars, (Diners, SSL, and Sleepers) and they are so underutilized! (not from a capacity perspective, but from a "level of quality service they could provide" perspective...........)

Either I'm the luckiest person alive or most of those amenities are plenty reliable. While the temperature on Amtrak may not be able to be set to a perfect 72 degrees, it's still always been within a comfortable range. I've also always had a hot shower on Amtrak, which is more than I can say even when at a campsite. My bed has almost always been made up without issue, and I don't see the problem with paper cups in the sleeper.

Frankly, I've been satisfied with my service every time I've taken a sleeper, and the food has generally been decent. I'm failing to see the doom and gloom so far (though I will agree that some of the cuts that have been made are penny wise and pound foolish.)

 

[FormerOBS]

For the record: Auto Train's Superliner II's were built by Bpmbardier (not Budd) in the mid-1990's, which makes them about 20 years old. Many (possibly most) of those cars have been in dedicated A-T service since then, and have remained in the same maintenance pool, where it is arguable that they may have been maintained at a higher level than other Superliner II's.

Early arrivals are the result of dispatching that gets the train over the road faster than the schedule anticipates. The published and advertised schedule is decided upon through negotiations between CSX and Amtrak. CSX dispatchers know what time the train is scheduled to arrive, but they have a built-in time cushion that allows for unforeseen delays. If those delays don't occur, the dispatcher can move the train along to an early arrival. Amtrak does not have a say in CSX dispatchers' decisions regarding train movement on a day-to-day basis. Until I retired in June, the standard procedure on an early arrival was to keep the diner open until it was time to detrain. I am not aware that this has changed. If the train was late, then the diner remained open until its advertised closing time, and this was sometimes extended to a later time.

As of June, here's how it worked: The published schedule called for the Auto Train to arrive at 9:30 a.m. The station personnel arrived for work at 8:00 a.m. Their safety briefing was usually concluded by around 8:15 a.m. If the train was already in the station at 8:15 or before, then detraining began as soon as the station personnel finished the safety briefing.

The station personnel, like most workers, have lives apart from their job on the train. They get up at a particular time in the morning. They have breakfast. They see the kids off to school. They drive to work. And they arrive at work at a designated time. Is somebody suggesting that somebody at Amtrak will note, at about 3:00 a.m., that the train is running early, and take it upon himself to upset the apple cart? Are they going to start calling station personnel at 4:30 to tell them they have to arrive at work an hour early because the train is running early NOW and it MIGHT get in early? Who gets the kids off to school? What happens if the dispatcher decides to use up that time cushion and bring the train in on time instead of early? Who is going to authorize overtime pay for the station employee who came in early (possibly unnecessarily) but must stay late in order to get the departing train out of the station in the afternoon?

I recently talked with a former onboard co worker. She told me how embarrassed she feels to be serving coffee in paper cups in the diner. Please don't take it out on those folks. They don't like doing work that's hard to be proud of.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Most of us know better and don't Blame the OBS Tom, but your average traveler only knows to take out frustration on those present!

Its the Bean Counters and Suits fault, but of course they are only looking @ the bottom line and don't have to face the passengers ire for second class service on what used to be a First Class Train! Let them eat cake indeed!

 

[neroden]

Strictly speaking, the Auto Train & all of Amtrak's trains are by definition "Mass Transit". Mass Transit, is just a shared passenger transport service which is available for use by the general public, as distinct from modes such as taxicab, car pooling or hired buses which are not shared by strangers without private arrangement.

The definition you gave is actually "public transportation"...

I tend to be literalistic and believe that "mass transportation" has to carry a *mass* of people. So a Boeing 747 is mass transportation, while a Beechcraft 15-seater isn't. So Amtrak is very much mass transportation.

 

[FormerOBS]

Jim:

After all those years being "the visible face of Amtrak", how well I know the truth of what you say! But I do like to put that little reminder in there every now and then for the benefit of those who may forget. I'm not aware of any recent changes being initiated because they were suggested by OBS. However, OBS could have offered some good ideas if they had been asked. Sadly, that was not the case.

Tom

 

[greatcats]

I wonder how much the bean counters would like the turkey meatballs and mashed potatoes I had on the CZ last week. It was dog food in my gastronomic view. I will say the two dinners I had were fairly acceptable.

 

[Guest]

Possibly, the answer for LD trains and sleeper class passengers, would be to replace the traditional dining car with a cafeteria style car? Sleeper passengers would go down a buffet line, gathering their meals, and then take such back to their compartment. I mean, each sleeper class passenger has a seat with a place to set a tray, no? Of course, the SCA could help those who need assistance, in getting their food back to their H room (they do that now anyway).

If you want a salad, take a salad. Don't like the AmSalad? Don't take one.

 

[R30A]

I don't quite get some of the complaints here. Breakfast is and has always been, pretty good. Lunch is, and has always been pretty lousy, with an occasional good special (I loved the pasta with meatballs that they had last year.) Dinner has at least some great entrees, and the vegetable medley sucks(and always has).

(By always, I am referring from now back til the mid 90s when I started riding LD trains.)

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Possibly, the answer for LD trains and sleeper class passengers, would be to replace the traditional dining car with a cafeteria style car? Sleeper passengers would go down a buffet line, gathering their meals, and then take such back to their compartment. I mean, each sleeper class passenger has a seat with a place to set a tray, no? Of course, the SCA could help those who need assistance, in getting their food back to their H room (they do that now anyway).

If you want a salad, take a salad. Don't like the AmSalad? Don't take one.

The table in the roomettes is not really big enough for two people to have dinner on.

 

[Bob Dylan]

I think the meals in the diners had really improved in the past couple of years, especially compared to the " simplified" menu days! My Amtrak riding goes back to A Day and previously I was fortunate enough to experience the Super Chief and other First Class Trains through SPs infamous Auto-Mat Trains!

The panel of chefs Amtrak assembled created some really tasty dishes and the deserts were improving too! When pot roast replaced the steaks on some routes, the specials went away and standard national menus came into being, the slippery slope started!

The nickel and dimeing is frosting on the cake, I'm still anxious to see what real "savings" they bring to Amtrak!

That being said, there still are great chefs ( I had the best steak I've ever had on the Texas Eagle last week) and OBS out there trying their best to give excellent service to the customers and the Scenery is still there to be viewed from a Train, however Late it may be!(one of the real problems not being dealt with by Management!)

 

[Ryan]

Possibly, the answer for LD trains and sleeper class passengers, would be to replace the traditional dining car with a cafeteria style car? Sleeper passengers would go down a buffet line, gathering their meals, and then take such back to their compartment. I mean, each sleeper class passenger has a seat with a place to set a tray, no? Of course, the SCA could help those who need assistance, in getting their food back to their H room (they do that now anyway).

If you want a salad, take a salad. Don't like the AmSalad? Don't take one.

The table in the roomettes is not really big enough for two people to have dinner on.

Not to mention, untrained (and often unsteady) people carrying their meals through the train across multiple cars is a recipe for disaster.

 

[jis]

Not to mention, untrained (and often unsteady) people carrying their meals through the train across multiple cars is a recipe for disaster.

Properly packaged in a paper bag with handles it should not be too bad. After all a lot of untrained people do just fine carrying food and drinks in those rickety cardboard thingies on the Regionals and Acelas.

 

[Guest]

Lunch is, and has always been pretty lousy, with an occasional good special (I loved the pasta with meatballs that they had last year.)

I always got the burger they offered for lunch, and found it to be pretty good.

Though, I do agree the pasta with meatballs is equally good, and my choice for the 2nd day lunch if the train is running late.