5 Killed: Michigan Collision with Wolverine (2009)

[DET63]

Momentum p is the product of mass m times velocity v: p=mvWhen I was in my high-school physics class, we learned that a speeding bullet (low mass, high velocity) may have as much momentum as a slow moving train (high mass, low velocity). Driving in front of a train makes as much sense as driving in front of a bullet. Actually, less sense, since you should be able to see the train, while you probably won't be able to see the bullet.

He must not have passed his math course, then.

Let's look at it:

Take one freight diesel, only, weight around 400,000 pounds, and have him move at 10 mph

Momentum: 400,000 lbs * 10 mph * 44/30 = 5,866,668 ft-lbs. (44/30 converts mph to feet/second)

That is one engine moving slow, not even multiple units or a train.

Now let's take a big bullet moving fast:

45 caliber 500 grain bullet = 0.07143 pounds, have it move at twice the speed of sound, in round numbers, 2000 ft/second

Momentum: 0.07143 lbs * 2000 ft/sec = 142.9 ft-lbs

Need I say more?

So you're better off stepping in front of bullet than a locomotive?

 

[KayBee]

So you're better off stepping in front of bullet than a locomotive?

Stepping in front of a bullet is enough.

Stepping in front of a train is overkill!

 

[George Harris]

So you're better off stepping in front of bullet than a locomotive?

The level of stupidity in doing either one is such that whatever the cause of death it won't be brain damage, because it is hard to damage something that is not present for the event.

The point being that the teacher had his mouth leading his brain, a not uncommon event amongst people who have not experience in or understanding of whatever it is they are talking about. To put out such complete misinformation in a classroom is rediculous. It is not just slightly wrong, but completely irrational in its level of error.

(Edited to correct "information" to "misinformation"

 

[Green Maned Lion]

The level of stupidity in doing either one is such that whatever the cause of death it won't be brain damage, because it is hard to damage something that is not present for the event.

Amen.

 

[PetalumaLoco]

The black box details.

 

[Ryan]

68 in a 45 on the road on the way to the crossing.

FWIW, if they got the nomenclature correct, most every car for the last 10 years has had a powertrain control module - it's not that the manufacturers are adding a new "black box" somewhere as much as they are adding capability to the computers that have been standard in cars for a long time. The practical side of this means that it MAY be possible in some implementations to have custom programming inserted into the PCM that disables these recording functions. Custom PCM tuning is a healthy business now as a way of extracting more power from your motor (I've had it done to my Suburban, and the difference is night and day).

 

[DET63]

So you're better off stepping in front of bullet than a locomotive?

The level of stupidity in doing either one is such that whatever the cause of death it won't be brain damage, because it is hard to damage something that is not present for the event.

The point being that the teacher had his mouth leading his brain, a not uncommon event amongst people who have not experience in or understanding of whatever it is they are talking about. To put out such complete misinformation in a classroom is rediculous. It is not just slightly wrong, but completely irrational in its level of error.

(Edited to correct "information" to "misinformation"

The comparison was made in the textbook. The teacher did seem to accept it as valid, however.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

68 in a 45 on the road on the way to the crossing.
FWIW, if they got the nomenclature correct, most every car for the last 10 years has had a powertrain control module - it's not that the manufacturers are adding a new "black box" somewhere as much as they are adding capability to the computers that have been standard in cars for a long time. The practical side of this means that it MAY be possible in some implementations to have custom programming inserted into the PCM that disables these recording functions. Custom PCM tuning is a healthy business now as a way of extracting more power from your motor (I've had it done to my Suburban, and the difference is night and day).

Actually, 15 years is more accurate. The last car to go without it was (ironically but not unintentionally) is what I drive, a '95 MB E300 Diesel, because it was the last car on our market to use mechanical injection.

As for disabling them, just like with any modification, it does void your warranty.

 

[George Harris]

So you're better off stepping in front of bullet than a locomotive?

The level of stupidity in doing either one is such that whatever the cause of death it won't be brain damage, because it is hard to damage something that is not present for the event.

The point being that the teacher had his mouth leading his brain, a not uncommon event amongst people who have not experience in or understanding of whatever it is they are talking about. To put out such complete misinformation in a classroom is rediculous. It is not just slightly wrong, but completely irrational in its level of error.

The comparison was made in the textbook. The teacher did seem to accept it as valid, however.

Having seen some of the absolutely goofball examples given in my wife's middle school math books (Mid school math is what she taught), I can readily believe that the source of the error was the textbook. A lot of what is in the current run of school texts is either fluff or error. If you have school kids, read their textbooks to see what they are being taught.

 

[LookingGlassTie]

***Moderator's note - this thread is 8 years old***

Bumping the thread......

I watched the cab POV of the accident on YouTube, and I saw shattered glass fly up on the locomotive windshield upon impact.

My stomach dropped to my knees when I saw that......

 

[tim49424]

Bumping the thread......

I watched the cab POV of the accident on YouTube, and I saw shattered glass fly up on the locomotive windshield upon impact.

My stomach dropped to my knees when I saw that......

I've seen that video too. The hardest part of it to me is watching the conductor surveying the accident. I've also seen a video taken of the same incident from a different perspective from a local motel's security camera. You can see the car speeding towards the crossing but don't see the impact. From what I heard of the incident, the driver was thrill racing the train and obviously lost, paying the ultimate price for all five teenage occupants.

 

[LookingGlassTie]

Also, this Amtrak incident reminds me of one of the early episodes of "World's Scariest Police Chases" where the last segment showed a pair of teens who had just stolen a lawnmower, were eluding officers and decided to go through an intersection on a red light. Their truck was immediately struck by a flatbed semi traveling at high speed. Both were killed instantly.

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

Bumping the thread......

I watched the cab POV of the accident on YouTube, and I saw shattered glass fly up on the locomotive windshield upon impact.

My stomach dropped to my knees when I saw that......

I've seen that video too. The hardest part of it to me is watching the conductor surveying the accident. I've also seen a video taken of the same incident from a different perspective from a local motel's security camera. You can see the car speeding towards the crossing but don't see the impact. From what I heard of the incident, the driver was thrill racing the train and obviously lost, paying the ultimate price for all five teenage occupants.

That video should be MANDATORY viewing in every high school driver's ed program!

 

[Thirdrail7]

The hardest part of it to me is watching the conductor surveying the accident.

His face says it all!

 

[tim49424]

I was on the Empire Builder a few weeks ago and talking to our SCA about this very incident. He was quite frank about how he feels after something like this. One story he told me was when there was an accident involving a fatality, his conductor had to be replaced as he was too emotionally affected to continue on. The SCA went on to tell me that the conductor was so traumatized by the situation that he never worked another train again.

 

[dlagrua]

In my township the busy grade crossing has a lane divider for about 30 feet before you reach the gates. It would still be possible to drive around in the wrong lane and pass the gates but far more difficult to do so. Perhaps this is what is needed to deter careless/reckless drivers but with enough effort any good system can be defeated. Prayers to the families of those that needlessly perished and we hope that this tragic accident sends a message to those bent on disobeying the law.

 

[ehbowen]

In my township the busy grade crossing has a lane divider for about 30 feet before you reach the gates. It would still be possible to drive around in the wrong lane and pass the gates but far more difficult to do so. Perhaps this is what is needed to deter careless/reckless drivers but with enough effort any good system can be defeated.

I'm not sure. About fifteen years back I personally witnessed a local METRO bus, loaded with passengers, pull out of a line of traffic and drive down the wrong side of the street to go between lowered crossing gates at a 2-track crossing (track speed limit 50 MPH) where a BNSF switch engine was visible working one of the tracks (and any potential traffic on the other track was unknown).

I timed the crossing gates. By pulling this stunt, he saved a full two minutes. Yes, I called in and reported him, but as I was never called back I have no idea whether any action was taken on him at all.

 

[Acela150]

I was on the Empire Builder a few weeks ago and talking to our SCA about this very incident. He was quite frank about how he feels after something like this. One story he told me was when there was an accident involving a fatality, his conductor had to be replaced as he was too emotionally affected to continue on. The SCA went on to tell me that the conductor was so traumatized by the situation that he never worked another train again.

Crew replacement is SOP after trespasser and crossing incidents IINM. Along with 3 paid days off.

 

[tim49424]

I was on the Empire Builder a few weeks ago and talking to our SCA about this very incident. He was quite frank about how he feels after something like this. One story he told me was when there was an accident involving a fatality, his conductor had to be replaced as he was too emotionally affected to continue on. The SCA went on to tell me that the conductor was so traumatized by the situation that he never worked another train again.

Crew replacement is SOP after trespasser and crossing incidents IINM. Along with 3 paid days off.

I think some sort of counseling is required along with training before the crew member returns to work....but this particular conductor was so traumatized that he never returned to work and found a new profession.

 

[SubwayNut]

I was on the Empire Builder a few weeks ago and talking to our SCA about this very incident. He was quite frank about how he feels after something like this. One story he told me was when there was an accident involving a fatality, his conductor had to be replaced as he was too emotionally affected to continue on. The SCA went on to tell me that the conductor was so traumatized by the situation that he never worked another train again.

Crew replacement is SOP after trespasser and crossing incidents IINM. Along with 3 paid days off.

I think some sort of counseling is required along with training before the crew member returns to work....but this particular conductor was so traumatized that he never returned to work and found a new profession.

I know of a New York City Subway Train Operator who still has similar ptsd and isn't working anymore due to the trauma of someone jumping in front of his train.