5 Killed: Michigan Collision with Wolverine (2009)

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From looking at the video several times the car that was hit seems to have been going very fast. Can you image what would have happened if he had hit the stopped car and pushed it into the path of the train? I wonder if he swerved around the stopped car so he wouldn't hit it?
 
As always, sympathies to everyone involved, families, crew, passengers, emergency responders.

As to photo crossing enforcement, my understanding is that Railroad Special Agents have police authority anywhere their railroad operates. It should be possible for a railroad (including Amtrak) to install and photo enforce crossing violations when local or state law allows.

Lets all advocate for safer crossings.

1. Grade seperations.

2. Positive crossing gates (full width or median blocked).

3. Crossing gates (better than signs)

4. Education, everyone gets to see a video of a P42 vs compact car (pun intended) before getting a drivers licence.

5. Enforcement.
 
An eyewitness tells what he saw.
From the article linked above, though from a different eyewitness:

Ashley Vaughn was driving south on Hannan with her husband, Dwayne, when the crash happened. She told the Free Press on Saturday that she did not remember seeing the gate down or the lights flashing.
I have to agree with Josh McFadden, the eyewitness referred to by PetumaLoco, and disagree with Vaughn. Although the video of the incident has no sound, it's clear that the SUV that the death car passed was stopped, and it wouldn't likely have stopped for no reason. It was stopped for about 14 sec prior to the accident.
 
Not all insurance companies give a discount for Drivers Ed anymore. Which makes no sense really. Looks like it would be a requirement for teens to even get a drivers license. That and raising the age to acquire a license to 18 would help. I think most insurances companies around here do give a discount to teens with proof of having good grades in school. The color of the auto having a affect on insurance price just seems silly to me. A blue or black car or truck goes just as fast as a red one.
 
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Not all insurance companies give a discount for Drivers Ed anymore. Which makes no sense really. Looks like it would be a requirement for teens to even get a drivers license. That and raising the age to acquire a license to 18 would help. I think most insurances companies around here do give a discount to teens with proof of having good grades in school. The color of the auto having a affect on insurance price just seems silly to me. A blue or black car or truck goes just as fast as a red one.
Raising the age to 18 ionly works in areas where there is good public transportation. I have no porblem with the 16 year old having a license. I do have a problem with parents being so stupid as to hand the kid a high powered car. There used to be several states that would let you have a drivers license at 15, including mine. I was in my first accident at 19 despite that, and note I said "was in" thanks to a guy that jumped ahead of the green. If you were on a farm, you could get one at 14 in some places. Like some guys I knew said, I have been driving a tractor since I was 10 so keeping a car where it is supposed to be is no big deal. But then, we were all driving functional junk not fancy stuff.
 
Not all insurance companies give a discount for Drivers Ed anymore. Which makes no sense really. Looks like it would be a requirement for teens to even get a drivers license. That and raising the age to acquire a license to 18 would help. I think most insurances companies around here do give a discount to teens with proof of having good grades in school. The color of the auto having a affect on insurance price just seems silly to me. A blue or black car or truck goes just as fast as a red one.
Raising the age to 18 ionly works in areas where there is good public transportation. I have no porblem with the 16 year old having a license. I do have a problem with parents being so stupid as to hand the kid a high powered car. There used to be several states that would let you have a drivers license at 15, including mine. I was in my first accident at 19 despite that, and note I said "was in" thanks to a guy that jumped ahead of the green. If you were on a farm, you could get one at 14 in some places. Like some guys I knew said, I have been driving a tractor since I was 10 so keeping a car where it is supposed to be is no big deal. But then, we were all driving functional junk not fancy stuff.
Driver's Ed also has a tendency to be.. less than effective. Education cannot be accomplished en masse like this-- many of my friends who took driver's ed (required if you are under 18 in Ohio, plus 6 months mandatory on temps before you can take your driving exam) are horrible drivers. Those who waited until they're older than 18 are much better for it.
 
Ashley Vaughn was driving south on Hannan with her husband, Dwayne, when the crash happened. She told the Free Press on Saturday that she did not remember seeing the gate down or the lights flashing.
I have to agree with Josh McFadden, the eyewitness referred to by PetumaLoco, and disagree with Vaughn. Although the video of the incident has no sound, it's clear that the SUV that the death car passed was stopped, and it wouldn't likely have stopped for no reason. It was stopped for about 14 sec prior to the accident.
Good thing Ashley Vaughn was nowhere near the crossing, since if she was she would apparently have missed the gates that were down and found herself in front of the train too. Sigh....
 
Ashley Vaughn was driving south on Hannan with her husband, Dwayne, when the crash happened. She told the Free Press on Saturday that she did not remember seeing the gate down or the lights flashing.
I have to agree with Josh McFadden, the eyewitness referred to by PetumaLoco, and disagree with Vaughn. Although the video of the incident has no sound, it's clear that the SUV that the death car passed was stopped, and it wouldn't likely have stopped for no reason. It was stopped for about 14 sec prior to the accident.
Good thing Ashley Vaughn was nowhere near the crossing, since if she was she would apparently have missed the gates that were down and found herself in front of the train too. Sigh....
It's pretty easy to not remember something like gates going down because you don't take notice of it-- it's something somebody takes for granted.
 
Of course there will be exceptions as there to all generalities. Some 16 year kids might be ready to drive but most are not. In fact according to the experts the prefrontal cortex is the part of the brain that makes judgments is not fully developed at 16 and won't be till they are in their 20s. This causes them to take chances. They think they are invincible.
 
Update: The Detroit Free Press is reporting that Amtrak states a video recorder in the locomotive indicated the grade crossing gates were down, and police are attempting to obtain information on speed and braking from the data recorder in the car.

Data sought from car's black box in fatal crash with train

http://www.freep.com/article/20090714/NEWS...-in-fatal-crash
 
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i didn't know cars had black boxes now. or did the reporter mean the locomotive.
Nope, they meant the car. Some new cars do have the equivalent of a flight data recorder or "black box." I don't know how prevalent they are, but I've heard about them for a few years. However, every manufacturer puts in a different unit, so I know there's a lot of compatibility issues and most police departments don't have the ability to download their data, nor can they legally due so without consent in most circumstances (I believe). And they only record a small amount of time - maybe just the last minute or two before the accident. I'm sure I could dig up more info for you but I'm running out the door at the moment.
 
As a now retired claim adjuster I can say with certainty they exist. Not a very high percentage. We had them in all our company cars, installed by an independent company not associated with the manufacturer of the car itself. Just knowing it was there made your driving habits be on the up and up.

A number of semi-type trucks have them, too.
 
Of course there will be exceptions as there to all generalities. Some 16 year kids might be ready to drive but most are not. In fact according to the experts the prefrontal cortex is the part of the brain that makes judgments is not fully developed at 16 and won't be till they are in their 20s. This causes them to take chances. They think they are invincible.
Partly true, partly hogwash.

Invincible does not equal stupid.

I tried quite a few things in the 16 to 25 year age range that I would not after that point, and have seen the same thing in my boys, It seems to be primaily a male thing, but I have seen girls do some things a little more maturing would have said no to. Depending upon your reactions to get you out of bad situation is a big part of this feeling of invincibility. However, collecting traffic tickets and driving in front of trains is not. Failing to understanding that there are consequences if your reactions do not save you is not. These things are simply applied stupidity. Who knows? Maybe this kid had not had to deal with the consequences of his own stupidity. There were two things I told my kids I would not do for them. 1. pay their traffic fines, and 2. make bail if they were arrested. For these things, you get to stew in your own juice. A night in jail can do a lot to help you wise up, hopefully before you have to become a long term resident of the gray hotel.
 
In reading some of the readers' comments to the Free Press articles on this accident, it's amazing to me that somehow, some blame Amtrak! I don't get it!!!! :blink:
yeah like "if it wasn't for amtrak going ridiculously fast the teens would have made it" etc etc etc
 
Of course there will be exceptions as there to all generalities. Some 16 year kids might be ready to drive but most are not. In fact according to the experts the prefrontal cortex is the part of the brain that makes judgments is not fully developed at 16 and won't be till they are in their 20s. This causes them to take chances. They think they are invincible.
Partly true, partly hogwash.

Invincible does not equal stupid.

I tried quite a few things in the 16 to 25 year age range that I would not after that point, and have seen the same thing in my boys, It seems to be primaily a male thing, but I have seen girls do some things a little more maturing would have said no to. Depending upon your reactions to get you out of bad situation is a big part of this feeling of invincibility. However, collecting traffic tickets and driving in front of trains is not. Failing to understanding that there are consequences if your reactions do not save you is not. These things are simply applied stupidity. Who knows? Maybe this kid had not had to deal with the consequences of his own stupidity. There were two things I told my kids I would not do for them. 1. pay their traffic fines, and 2. make bail if they were arrested. For these things, you get to stew in your own juice. A night in jail can do a lot to help you wise up, hopefully before you have to become a long term resident of the gray hotel.
Could you clarify what part you think is hogwash? The feeling of being invincible means they don't think anything bad will happen to them. I was not talking just about this young man but 16 year olds in general and their ability to make good decisions at 16.
 
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In reading some of the readers' comments to the Free Press articles on this accident, it's amazing to me that somehow, some blame Amtrak! I don't get it!!!! :blink:
yeah like "if it wasn't for amtrak going ridiculously fast the teens would have made it" etc etc etc
They are technically correct. If it had been a slow freight the youngerts probably would have made it. Same thing goes for the people the CZ hit the other day as well-- it isn't Amtrak's fault, but the speed is the reason why these accidents happened. People expect a pondering double stack and insteak get a silver streak.
 
If the kid driving hadn't swerved around an SUV stopped at the gate it wouldn't matter whether the train was an Amtrak train or a freight. A gate down and flashing lights and bells clanging are all supposed to mean STOP!!!!!!!!!
 
If the kid driving hadn't swerved around an SUV stopped at the gate it wouldn't matter whether the train was an Amtrak train or a freight. A gate down and flashing lights and bells clanging are all supposed to mean STOP!!!!!!!!!
yeah just like a red light at a intersection means stop or a stop sign at a intersection but people still blow though those like there not even there. have cameras at the crossings that whenever a car goes through the crossing when the lights are flashing it takes a picture of the cars license plate and you get a ticket in the mail for $$$$$. those fines will pay for the cameras in no time.
 
If the kid driving hadn't swerved around an SUV stopped at the gate it wouldn't matter whether the train was an Amtrak train or a freight. A gate down and flashing lights and bells clanging are all supposed to mean STOP!!!!!!!!!
It's even worse than that JayPea, he illegally passed that white SUV. That was a no passing zone, and he blew around that stopped SUV at high speed, in a no passing zone.
 
Picture I took in 1995 at the Bellevue, OH rail museum. It shows what can happen when a train hits a car.

Wreck.jpg
 
Not all insurance companies give a discount for Drivers Ed anymore. Which makes no sense really. Looks like it would be a requirement for teens to even get a drivers license. That and raising the age to acquire a license to 18 would help. I think most insurances companies around here do give a discount to teens with proof of having good grades in school. The color of the auto having a affect on insurance price just seems silly to me. A blue or black car or truck goes just as fast as a red one.
Catblue,

There is some sense to the color thing: my Brother-in-Law who is a Police Officer told me that he was warned when in training that people who drive red cars drive agressively and at first did not believe it. But he later discovered that this was true: the first 3 traffic accidents he had to respond to were caused by drivers in red cars. Strange but true! :huh:
 
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