Yikes, Amtrak can cancel reservations without notice?

[transit54]

As far as buying two seats for yourself and your stuff, you can but it must be done in person or via phone, Amtrak.com will not allow you to list the same name on more than one ticket for the same train.

Well, you can if you just book two separate reservations. I just did it this past weekend. I had a ticket for Sunday's northbound Vermonter, and lost it somehow on my trip south. So I had to buy another ticket for the same train - both were bought online, and I had no issues.

 

[AlanB]

...Assuming someone has made duplicate reservations and actually ticketed them, if they cancel one or more of the reservations, does Amtrak even have the ability to keep them from boarding if they have a ticket for a canceled reservation?

Once the ticket has been printed, then a refund or voucher credit is only issued when the physical ticket is returned. If the ticket is used for travel, then no refund is possible. So, cancelling a ticketed reservation and then using the ticket anyway means no refund or voucher credit.

Exactly, but if it was used for travel it would not be refunded. What I am stating is what if someone had 3 different reservations, ticketed all 3, then decided to cancel 1 or more of them, and then use of of those canceled tickets to board. I doubt many would try, but it is potentially one way to get around the duplicate reservation rule.

Alan might be able to confirm (or not), but once the three tickets are printed, then, like airline boarding passes, things are pretty firm. I don't think that Amtrak could easily cancel a ticketed reservation, unless for a specific space, like a sleeper room. Besides, all three tickets could conceivably be used if there happened to be three people in a household that shared the same name (I know a household that used to have two - mine). Just having the same name and address and even credit card does not mean the tickets are positively for the same person.

However, for the most common reason to multi-book trips - business travel with a floating return time - having printed tickets for all the options is way too cumbersome. Business travellers do not want to deal with returning paper tickets and handling vouchers that have to be turned in for future reservations. They want purely electronic reservations that auto-credit when cancelled or just left unused. So, they would use a means to accomplish that without giving the duplicate reservations cops at Amtrak cause to cancel reservations. I don't do it myself (honesty is one of my failings), but it can be done.

Agreed Bill, if someone made three reservations, printed the tickets for the three, then Amtrak wouldn't be able to truly cancel the reservations for you by phone. It would have to be done in person.

Just as an example many years ago I was ticketed for a Metroliner from DC back to NY. I'm not sure of the exact times as it was several years ago so I'm winging things here, but for example I let's say that I was on the 4:00 PM train and I was holding the ticket for it. It turned out that I was going to miss that train because I hadn't completed what I needed to do at my client that day. Because I was in First Class, I had to cancel things 1 hour before or loose my FC upcharge.

So I called Amtrak and the agent rebooked me on a later train, I'm thinking the 7:00 PM and gave me a code to write on the back of my ticket. That code proved that I had called to cancel the FC seat, but it did not actually cancel the reservation for the 4:00 PM train. I needed to turn in that ticket before I could get my new ticket for the 7:00 PM train. Had I somehow made the 4:00 PM train and used that ticket, then I would not have received any credit or any refund for that ticket.

Bottom line, one can't really cancel a reservation by phone/internet once the ticket is printed. It can only be cancelled by turning in the ticket. If you fail to turn in that ticket, you don't get a refund. Now if the ticket includes an accomodation charge, then you must call before the deadline to cancel the accomodation or loose that money forever no matter what you do. But the funds for the rail fare and if applicable the accomodations won't be returned to you until the ticket is turned in.

 

[AlanB]

I asked one of my station agents about this, he said you cannot book two or more tickets in the same direction of travel that would prevent you from using the other ticket/s. i.e. 2 regionals from was-nyp within 2hr 30 min of each other. However you can book was-nyp and nyp-was that overlap, because you could exit the nb at say bal and get on the sb, therefore using both tickets.

Why anyone would want to buy a ticket to NY paying all that extra money, only to get off and back on in Baltimore is beyond me. I understand the example, but frankly it's not a very logical reason for allowing that while not allowing a double booking.

He said the reason you can't double book is because tickets are automatically refunded to credit/debit cards when a ticket is not scanned into ARROW. All tickets get scanned in when the conductor turns them in at the end of the runs.

Sorry, and I realize that you're just repeating what you were told, but this makes no sense. To tell someone that they can't double book because they'll get a refund on the ticket that they didn't use makes no sense, since that would be exactly what they want anyhow. And if the ticket is printed, they won't get an automatic refund if the ticket goes unused. See below.

In other words if you don't use a ticket, 30 days later you get a full refund whether you want it or not. He said in the past you could double book but by doing so you voided the refundabilty of the other tickets, therefore if you didn't cancel the other reservations you paid for them.

I can't even begin to imagine how Amtrak could justify voiding the refundability of the other tickets without a visible policy in effect. Not to mention that it directly conflicts with the idea that an unscanned ticket automatically generates a refund, something also known not to be true. If one looses a ticket, one must fill out a special form, then wait something like 6 months IIRC for Amtrak to verify that the ticket did indeed go unused, before one can get a refund.

So bottom line here, either this guy was just blowing smoke or he actually had no idea what the policies are.

 

[diesteldorf]

Not to beat a dead horse to death, but lets forget that we're talking about duplicate reservations for the same day, and instead that I may have several coach tickets that I know I won't use for different days. I don't do this on purpose, but if I decide to go for a joyride and then something comes up the day of departure, I've been in this situation.

Do I truly gain anything my calling Amtrak and advising them that I am canceling my coach reservation? Would my low bucket coach fare go back as a low bucket fare for the next person? Obviously, as in Alan's example, if I cancel but then ride anyway, I wouldn't earn any AGR points.

Now, my sense of urgency to cancel a coach reservation is never as urgent as one for a sleeper, and there are many times where I won't call to cancel but rather just not show up. Later on, I'll apply the unused coach ticket toward another reservation. It would be interesting to see if Amtrak ever did a study on the average percentage of no shows in coach on a particular run. 10% or higher...who knows but I guess this also explains how the trains can get oversold.

Regarding canceling once a reservation has been ticketed, I had a ticket from late 2007 or early 2008 from Chicago to

La Crosse that I found this past summer. I assumed that the ticket would be worthless to be exchanged since it was over a year, but I hung on to it. When I was riding back from Chicago, I advised the conductor of my situation and showed her the ticket. She let me travel on it which was extremely nice of her and fortunate for me. However, I imagine the actual reservation was long since history and I received no AGR points for it--this was outweighed by the fact that I was able to redeem the ticket at all.

 

[AlanB]

You don't gain anything immediate, but everytime you do this you prevent Amtrak from potentially reselling the seat, which means lost revenue and therefore potentially higher prices in the future since Amtrak isn't earning the max it can from that train.

However, if you have the printed ticket, AFAIK Amtrak cannot resell that seat anyhow unless you visit the station and turn in the ticket. Just calling to cancel won't release the seat for resale to another passenger.

So in all honesty it would be best if you can either try to avoid booking multiple days like this, or at least avoid picking up the tickets until the last minute. That way if you haven't picked up the ticket and call to cancel, Amtrak at least has a chance at reselling the seat to someone else.

 

[Crescent ATN & TCL]

You don't gain anything immediate, but everytime you do this you prevent Amtrak from potentially reselling the seat, which means lost revenue and therefore potentially higher prices in the future since Amtrak isn't earning the max it can from that train.
However, if you have the printed ticket, AFAIK Amtrak cannot resell that seat anyhow unless you visit the station and turn in the ticket. Just calling to cancel won't release the seat for resale to another passenger.

So in all honesty it would be best if you can either try to avoid booking multiple days like this, or at least avoid picking up the tickets until the last minute. That way if you haven't picked up the ticket and call to cancel, Amtrak at least has a chance at reselling the seat to someone else.

This is why Amtrak is going for barcoded tickets with ticket scanners that link into ARROW, over the "fancy hole punch" method. Once they switch they can immediately release a seat for sell when there is a no show.

 

[AlanB]

You don't gain anything immediate, but everytime you do this you prevent Amtrak from potentially reselling the seat, which means lost revenue and therefore potentially higher prices in the future since Amtrak isn't earning the max it can from that train.
However, if you have the printed ticket, AFAIK Amtrak cannot resell that seat anyhow unless you visit the station and turn in the ticket. Just calling to cancel won't release the seat for resale to another passenger.

So in all honesty it would be best if you can either try to avoid booking multiple days like this, or at least avoid picking up the tickets until the last minute. That way if you haven't picked up the ticket and call to cancel, Amtrak at least has a chance at reselling the seat to someone else.

This is why Amtrak is going for barcoded tickets with ticket scanners that link into ARROW, over the "fancy hole punch" method. Once they switch they can immediately release a seat for sell when there is a no show.

There are other reasons for going to ticket scanners, like E-Tickets. But Amtrak isn't there yet and last I heard the tests had gone badly setting things back quite a bit.

So until then, holding a ticket does mean that Amtrak cannot resell the seat.

 

[kj]

Moderator note: This reply is to a topic from 2009.

I asked an agent by phone this questions about booking the same train for two consecutive days, then cancelling one and getting a full refund. The guy balked, and said you can't "double book." however, how do they know I'm not taking the train down one day, flying back the next morning, and taking the train again? While unlikely, the trips do not overlap in dates at all and are therefore not covered under the same day same route policy.

Well, where it gets a little tricky though is that the 2nd day's NYP to Miami route leaves NY before the 1st one reaches Miami. As such, I am not sure whether that is considered an overlap but I suppose it could very well be.

 

[abcnews]

It happened to me this summer - we had a bedroom on the Cardinal and the train was sold out. They just took it away - it was confusing, but they thought I was also going to San Antonio on the Texas Eagle (on the same day). Actually, I did have a BR from VA to San Antonio on the Capital Limited/Eagle, but I was getting off in Chicago and returning to VA - and my son was to continue on to San Antonio on that same 20,000 AGR award trip from VA. I was to return to VA on the Cardinal, with my wife and a daughter - in a BR, on the Cardinal. It was due to depart Chicago the same day as the Texas Eagle segment - that my son was to stay on. Anyway, our Cardinal BR was cancelled - and no seats were available (sold out). I found out prior to our trip was to start, and I just cancelled my trip plans.

Since I had planned to use AGR points, I decided not to complain, and just put those points back in our account, and plan another trip later. But I was a bit ticked that they cancelled our BR without discussing it with me.