Agreed. I read the Terms and bailed. As someone who's trying to gain traction in the travel blog world and, eventually, turn it into a career, I balked the second I saw those conditions.
Writers' Residencies
- Thread starter SarahZ
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Ryan
Court Jester
The only travesty is the godawful font that blogger uses.
If you want Amtrak to give you something for free, you have to play by their rules.
If you want Amtrak to give you something for free, you have to play by their rules.
so a few of you are worried about what if would cost them to let writers ride free once in a while ? the seats are already there and I can assure you not every train sells out everyday, or shouldn't cost them anything unless they wine and dine these writers.
Right. I'm only being persnickety because I'm "mine, all mine" about my stuff.
I knew this would probably be a condition, and if I weren't so persnickety, I'd be happy to write something in exchange for a free roomette. The problem is the initial writing sample becoming their property.I suppose I could always write something totally fake that would never be published or used in my portfolio, though. Trip reports don't take that long.
Then again, I don't have enough vacation days to take advantage of the residency (if I even got it), so it's moot at this point.
G
guest
Guest
Thank you Henry.
Devil's Advocate
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It starts out logical enough. Then she goes on to say you shouldn't sell your rights even for a million dollars because that's not nearly enough money for some literary lottery you might win someday. Really? Turning down a sleeper worth a few hundred dollars is one thing, but turning down a million dollars in cash is something else entirely. This kind of advice sounds like something an Ayn Rand acolyte would follow.
neroden
Engineer
She's actually basically right. Good business practice is that you don't give away universal rights, ever. License only. This isn't just writing, it's good inventor practice too. You know, if you want to not get cheated blind.
The issue with unlimited rights isn't necessarily "hitting the lottery"...it's more the fact that those rights are so sweeping that they could limit your ability to reuse the material...and many a short story has been repackaged in different omnibuses or had material taken out of it and used as the basis for another story.
Now, to be fair there's probably an upper limit on even the theoretical value of a wonderful short story that makes you infinitely famous...but that's probably somewhere between the $500-1500 that these tickets would normally cost and $1 million.
Now, to be fair there's probably an upper limit on even the theoretical value of a wonderful short story that makes you infinitely famous...but that's probably somewhere between the $500-1500 that these tickets would normally cost and $1 million.
Devil's Advocate
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Somewhere between $1,500 and $1 million. Really going out on a limb there. According to Diane Duane some random little short story any given author just penned on Amtrak's dime could apparently be worth tens or even hundreds of millions of dollars down the road after it is translated into Japanese and Farsi thanks to the shrewd retention of world rights. Most authors won't attain serious popularity in even one country. A few will be popular in a couple of countries. Only a tiny handful will make it into any sort of world wide popularity. Bottom line, someone offers you a million dollars for a self written fictional story you take it. Someone offers you a half million or a quarter million dollars you take it. They want worldwide rights you give it to them. Sure, maybe one in a million authors will lose money on that advice, but the other 999,999 will be better off.
*chuckles*
Well, getting it much more specific is a bit tricky. Let's assume one was offered $1500 cash. Would that be a good deal? What about $5000? $10,000? $25,000? And so on.
More to the point, let's assume there are two submissions ultimately required. One is the application submission and one is a "work product" piece from the trip. Combined, $1500 might be a little low if an author is actually competent and has gotten something published before. I think that is a fair point. However, I would obviously not go nearly as far as the author of that piece.
I respectfully disagree with the premise that a writer should keep rights to the product that they willingly took a free trip from Amtrak expressly for the purpose of writing. In effect, they were paid for the product. But, according to the linked article, that is not enough........I say, bullhockey.
I work in manufacturing. If I develop a method that is faster/better while at work, that belongs to my employer. I was paid to develop it. If a writer accepts the free trip in payment for the written product, the same rationale applies, IMHO.
That said, I still say the appearance of giving away free trips while cutting back on the product Amtrak supplies to the customer (pax) just looks bad. Again, IMHO.
I work in manufacturing. If I develop a method that is faster/better while at work, that belongs to my employer. I was paid to develop it. If a writer accepts the free trip in payment for the written product, the same rationale applies, IMHO.
That said, I still say the appearance of giving away free trips while cutting back on the product Amtrak supplies to the customer (pax) just looks bad. Again, IMHO.
ALC Rail Writer
Engineer
Here's the problem from a writer's perspective:
Writing is a lot like making the same thing over and over again but putting it into a different package. People, events and places become worked into multiple works over time. In fact if one is dedicated to travel blogging/writing as Sarah suggested, this stuff can become the basis for just about everything you write. People I met on a train may appear as a character in a short story, physical details (buildings, food, motions) can be put in any number of contexts and formats from poems to blogs and novels and films. This is Anderson's point about the omnibuses.
What's also worth noting is that the "winning the lottery" bit is a very real threat. It isn't just a million dollar book deal that could be blocked. Just getting a thousand copies of a book printed can be a difficult and expensive task involving editors, publishers, printers, lawyers, and agents. Most writers know another writer whose first book sale got around third base only to be blocked by a last minute injunction by somebody who claims legal rights to their intellectual property, even if it is from an obscure or even unpublished piece. Such action can ruin a writing career before it starts--and it's not like writers are being paid all that much. Like all art professions there are many talented people at all levels of financial and professional success in their fields. For every bestseller there's thousands of mid-listers and a million rejection letters.
That being said if you're NOT serious about publishing much about Amtrak and just want a free trip then this is a good contest. Serious writers may find themselves in trouble later.
With that said, I'm out.
EDIT: A pet peeve of mine as a writer is when people use unnecessary hashtags when describing a proper noun. They are asking for participants in an "#AmtrakResidency" program not the "Amtrak Residency" program. Every time I read that a nerve in my stomach panged.
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ALC Rail Writer
Engineer
The stories are gaining traction against the legalese in the program. Here is an excerpt from The Wire:
I suspect that this will merit some sort of response.
http://www.thewire.com/culture/2014/03/nervous-writers-have-questions-about-amtraks-residency-and-amtrak-answers-them-us/359053/
I suspect that this will merit some sort of response.
In my case, I'm talking about the writing sample you send in, which becomes property of Amtrak. I expect them to hold the rights to the article I write for them, as I am getting compensated with a free trip. What I don't like is giving up rights to the sample, for which I'm not getting compensated (if I don't get a residency, that is). That's what's bullhockey to me.
That, I agree with.
ALC Rail Writer
Engineer
Then consider this… In order to have a chance in such a contest (widely publicized with lots of interest from serious writers) the sample would have to be some of your best work (if not your personal best). That would mean if I draw on my many experiences on Amtrak to write 10 pages of sample and give away the rights to the content of those pages then I can never write about those trips again without possibly running afoul of these restrictive terms. Even trip reports on this website may impact these terms in some unforeseen way. So the calculus for me as an "emerging" writer is whether or not selling all future rights to some of my best ideas for a free sleeper ticket? Eh, probably not.
Also worth noting is that when most publications take pieces like this they are only buying printing rights for a certain period of time or number of copies. After the contract is fulfilled rights revert back to authors unless otherwise specified. This way authors can edit material and sometimes have it reprinted or otherwise use the same characters or setting over again without fear of breaking their agreements.
The "residency" terms are also vague as far as what Amtrak wants. It appears Amtrak wants the rights to whatever you write while on board their train on their dime. If I write down an idea for a story I don't write until years later, does Amtrak own the rights to that story? Does that mean if I write a poem about my father they own that too? If I came up with the character for a series of children's books would they own the rights to those, forever and in perpetuity? If I write about being on an Amtrak train am I ever going to be allowed to write about that again? Answer: Yes, but only knowing there will exist a chance of action against me depending on the mood of somebody at Amtrak. I don't want that dead goose hanging over my neck for the rest of my life.
I hope Amtrak notices their error (if it is indeed an error to them) and will contact a few people in the publishing world to make it so that their terms are more typical of other contests. Until then I don't think that anybody whose been published in The Paris Review or the New Yorker will be beating down their doors for a free short-turn. However they will probably get all the material they need for a cheap PR stunt (mainly from talented but inexperienced writers who didn't read the terms) and perhaps they will be satisfied with that.
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A puzzling generally critical-of-Amtrak article in the Washington Post this morning.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/style-blog/wp/2014/03/12/dear-applicant-for-the-amtrak-residency-program/
I don't really figure out his point of view unless it's just general anti-Amtrak.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/style-blog/wp/2014/03/12/dear-applicant-for-the-amtrak-residency-program/
I don't really figure out his point of view unless it's just general anti-Amtrak.
caravanman
Engineer
Not too puzzling, I think... He seems to be all for the romance of travel, but feels that Amtrak is only going to take those who gush about how great it is, not those writers who may love trains, but give a negative write up of their experience. He seems a bit cheesed off about the high prices, but I don't think many passengers world wide would say that their own rail fares were low enough. He seems to be accusing Amtrak of trying to dress things up by offering these free rides in return for "unlimited use of the copy".
Ed
Ed
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Devil's Advocate
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So a free ride isn't free enough because Amtrak is going to screw you out of your most prized creation and sue you for breach of contract if it's ever used elsewhere. Some of the posts in this thread are a unique window into the world of statistical delusions. Here's an idea. If you're convinced that you're on the cusp of literary greatness then by all means turn this down. You'll be doing absolutely everyone a huge favor.
You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake. You are the same decaying organic matter as everyone else, and we are all a part of the same compost pile. - Tyler Durden in Fight Club by Chuck Palahniuk
You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake. You are the same decaying organic matter as everyone else, and we are all a part of the same compost pile. - Tyler Durden in Fight Club by Chuck Palahniuk
ALC Rail Writer
Engineer
Yeah it is clear from the terms that Amtrak is looking for brand reps. The clauses which give them complete editorial control are intended so that they may not only own a writer's words forever for unlimited applications but that they may also edit them however they see fit. I am not so concerned about editors at travel magazines or newspapers fixing up my pieces to their standards but a private corporate engaged in PR will usually be more heavy-handed. Then you run into the issue of Amtrak taking something you wrote and changing it's meaning.Not too puzzling, I think... He seems to be all for the romance of travel, but feels that Amtrak is only going to take those who gush about how great it is, not those writers who may love trains, but give a negative write up of their experience. He seems a bit cheesed off about the high prices, but I don't think many passengers world wide would say that their own rail fares were low enough. He seems to be accusing Amtrak of trying to dress things up by offering these free rides in return for "unlimited use of the copy".
Ed
Of course the free ride isn't enough to risk my best work (which I'd surely have to submit to stand a chance in a field of over 8,000 entries) when the terms are atypical, vague and restrictive compared to other outlets that would publish this sort of work. It is a personal decision, and all I'm doing is sharing my thoughts on the matter. I don't have any delusions of grandeur mind you, I just know too many people who've been screwed on this kind of thing before. You think it's rare and it is but no less a realistic concern. I've seen corporations come down on writers who wrote for them in previous years, suing to stop publication of short works in online and/or free publications.
The lucky people who win these will have an opportunity to further their careers. They will also be accepting the risk that at any future point in their careers Amtrak could come back and haunt them. This is not a statistical delusion. There is enough risk to warrant caution and reconsider applying.
Of course every reasonable measure of caution needs a devil's advocate to throw it to the wind. On the Titanic his name was Bruce Ismay. I'm sure he didn't put much thought about the "statistical delusion" of his pride and joy sinking to the bottom of the Atlantic.
I'd rather get less for the same amount of work if it means I have more control. Many other writers with more publishing experience than I have (as evidenced by the numerous articles being posted now from increasingly mainstream outlets) are in agreement.
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Well, there's also the issue of Amtrak proving what was written on (or inspired on) "their" trip. Let's take those of us who have chalked up 50-100k miles on Amtrak (and I know there are folks out there with closer to 500k). Let's take those who have used Amtrak to commute to Florida for years (and I know one award-winning author who has done so). I can just see the legal morass that this could trigger about what was inspired by what, etc.
I'll agree that a deal which amounts to "A story or substantial essay for a train trip" would be fine if it were so limited; the value would be worth considering (i.e. a round-trip on the Cap off-season vs. a round-trip on the Chief in peak season). For an aspiring author, the free trip, free meals, and possible publicity could be worth it...or not, depending on their calculus. It's the vagueness and extreme rights that are at issue.
I'll agree that a deal which amounts to "A story or substantial essay for a train trip" would be fine if it were so limited; the value would be worth considering (i.e. a round-trip on the Cap off-season vs. a round-trip on the Chief in peak season). For an aspiring author, the free trip, free meals, and possible publicity could be worth it...or not, depending on their calculus. It's the vagueness and extreme rights that are at issue.
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ALC Rail Writer
Engineer
Anderson I am continually impressed by your ability to say exactly what I want, but with brevity. Bravo.
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ALC Rail Writer
Engineer
Here's a thought: If you're a large multimillion-dollar corporation that wants to recruit a team of writers for your "promotion" then don't use such restrictive terms that would cause said writers to reconsider submitting their best work.
edit-- Consider, for example, that this program originates from a writer who was published in one of the most prestigious literary reviews in the world. Said review doesn't ask the same terms of it's contributors. At the very least rejected submissions should have rights revert back to the author. The way the terms are currently written the 7,976+ writers who are going to be rejected will NOT have the ability to submit their rejected piece to another outlet for publication.
And that's the nail in the coffin for me. The odds are against selection in this contest, and I will end up having to write an extremely good piece that I will not be able to publish elsewhere. But Amtrak will retain the rejections for their uses without payment or even notice in perpetuity.
If you go to an ice cream shop and order a scoop of every flavor then pick your favorites you then cannot refuse to pay for the flavors you didn't like. In this case Amtrak is going a step further and claiming that not only will they not pay for the flavors they didn't like but that the store will not be allowed to sell those flavors to anybody else and now (by virtue of letting Amtrak sample their work) Amtrak receives the exclusive rights to manufacture and sell the ice cream it didn't pick.
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