Wow. The food menus have really changed

[dlagrua]

While we have had some good meals on Amtrak routes nothing today seems to compare to the elegance and cuisine of the golden days of rail travel. This was the Torquoise room menu from the Santa Fe Chief from the 1950's. Imagine dining at a table with a white tablecloth, with fine glassware and china instead of sitting in a cramped luncheonette style booth as we have today.

Looking back this is what dinner was like.

Dinner ala Carte

Appetizers

Fresh Lobster

Fruit Supreme

Spiced Watermellon Cubes

Shrimp Cocktail

Pascal Celery

Collosal Ripe Olives

Pickled Herring w Sour Cream

Consomme en tasse Gelled or Hot

Cream of Celery Soup

Oyster Stew

Cream Stew

Entrees

Broiled Oysters on Toast w Bacon

Grilled Lake Superior Whitefish Maitre d'Hotel

Flaked Breast of Chicken w Mushrooms ala King

Broiled Brace of English Lamb chop with Baked Tomato

Charcoal Broiled Sirloin Steak (how did they do that?)

Vegetables

Fried Eggplant, New Peas,

Potatos

Rissoli or French Fried

Salads

Chefs Combination Salad

Fresh Fruit Salad w Chateleine Plate

Sliced Tomatoes

Breads

Rye, Whole Wheat of Dinner Rolls

Deserts

Vanilla Ice Cream w Cake

Chocolate Ice Cream Sundae

Baked Apple, Cream

Layer Cake

Cherry Pie

Poona Cheese w Tossed Crackers

Casaba Melon

Beverages

Coffee, Tea, Milk ( wheres the Coke?)

A meal on a train back then was a dining experience on the better LD trains. Just goes to show that even 60 years later the food menus are nothing like what they were in the 1950's.

 

[Anderson]

My guess is that at least some of the variety came from having a twin-unit diner (a kitchen car and a dining car). Still, the quality is...impressive.

 

[greatcats]

While we have had some good meals on Amtrak routes nothing today seems to compare to the elegance and cuisine of the golden days of rail travel. This was the Torquoise room menu from the Santa Fe Chief from the 1950's. Imagine dining at a table with a white tablecloth, with fine glassware and china instead of sitting in a cramped luncheonette style booth as we have today.

Looking back this is what dinner was like.

Dinner ala Carte

Appetizers

Fresh Lobster

Fruit Supreme

Spiced Watermellon Cubes

Shrimp Coctail

Pascal Celery

Collosal Ripe Olives

Pickled Herring w Sour Cream

Consomme en tasse Gelled or Hot

Cream of Celery Soup

Oyster Stew

Cream Stew

Entrees

Broiled Oysters on Toast w Bacon

Grilled Lake Superior Whitefish Maitre d'Hotel

Flaked Breast of Chicken w Mushrooms ala King

Broiled Brace of English Lamb chop with Baked Tomato

Charcoal Broiled Sirloin Steak (how did they do that?)

Vegetables

Fried Eggplant, New Peas,

Potatos

Risoli or Frech Fried

Salads

Chefs Combination Salad

Fresh Fruit Salad w Chateleine Plate

Sliced Tomatoes

Breads

Rye, Whole Wheat of Dinner Rolls

Deserts

Vanilla Ice Cream w Cake

Chocolate Ice Cream Sundae

Baked Apple, Cream

Layer Cake

Cherry Pie

Poona Cheese w Tossed Crackers

Casaba Melon

Beverages

Coffee, Tea, Milk ( wheres the Coke?)

A meal on a train back then was a dining experience on the better LD trains. Just goes to show that even 60 years later the food menus are nothing like what they were in the 1950's.

Yes, several steps above what we have now, although I have been fairly pleased with the meals recently. I have never heard of Poona cheese. See what Google tells me.

 

[Shawn Ryu]

I was born waaaaaaaay too late.

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

My guess is that at least some of the variety came from having a twin-unit diner (a kitchen car and a dining car). Still, the quality is...impressive.

But there were not too many twin unit diners. Some of them were on the Broadway Ltd, the 20th Century Ltd,the Panama Limited, City of Miami, South Wind,some between NYC and Florida,the Cascades. And there was the Lark Club on the Lark which was three cars together articulated, lounge,kitchen and diner. For that matter the cars on the Cascade, just mentioned, may have been three also. The Commodore Vanderbilt may have had one.

The above list is not complete I am sure. But still, not too many trains had twin units. The Santa Fe, for example, did not have them. Nor the various Zephyrs.

Even if I have forgotten quite a few they were still just a dent in the total number of trains. But for that matter some trains may have had them but did not consider the distinction noteworthy enough to list it that specifically in the timetable. For example, in double checking to see if New York Central's Commodore had one, I noticed it did not list the Century as having one, but it is well known that it did.

Having the torquoise room, dome etc,next to the regular diner with kitchen was not considered to be a twin unit.

 

[reefgeek]

MMMMMMMM, lamb chops.

But wasn't it hugely expensive (like a first-class plane ticket) compared to what most people took?

 

[FriskyFL]

What were the prices, back in the day?

 

[dlagrua]

What were the prices, back in the day?

Complete menu can be found here.

http://digital-library.csun.edu/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=%2FSFVH&CISOPTR=3529&DMSCALE=75.94937&DMWIDTH=600&DMHEIGHT=600&DMMODE=viewer&DMFULL=0&DMOLDSCALE=15.09054&DMX=0&DMY=0&DMTEXT=&DMTHUMB=1&REC=4&DMROTATE=0&x=77&y=10

Prices were reasonable.

In all honesty the Sante Fe did have an advantage. This was the menu put together by the famous Fred Harvey resturant chain that provided the food service, the Chefs, waiters and bus boys on the Santa Fe Chief. Since the Santa Fe was the railroad of the Hollywood Stars, high quality food ( and a private dining room no less)was a must. However, if we look at the Broadway Limiteds menu back then, it was still pretty good.

Its nice to remember how things were but I doubt if you will see a fancy upscale menu on Amtrak anytime soon, except in Joe Boardmans private car.

 

[me_little_me]

Charcoal Broiled Sirloin Steak (how did they do that?)

Silly! They had a charcoal grill out on the back deck. Prior to diesels, they simply used the firebox in the engine which was kept warm for that purpose (as well as being used to provide hot water for the jacuzzis).

 

[RRrich]

But could you take a shower?

 

[rrdude]

Charcoal Broiled Sirloin Steak (how did they do that?)

Silly! They had a charcoal grill out on the back deck. Prior to diesels, they simply used the firebox in the engine which was kept warm for that purpose (as well as being used to provide hot water for the jacuzzis).

They did have charcoal stoves in some of the old diners, and a lot of the older kitchens used Presto Logs as stove fuel. I know, I had to load them when we got to Kansas City, as it was a "Garbage, supplies, and Ice" stop. I was in college at the time, About 1980, an my jaw hit the platform when I saw pallets of Presto Logs. Up to that time, I just assumed the ovens were gas or electric.

It's been said elsewhere but I certainly cannot confirm, that "until it converted to HEP, Amtrak was the nation's largest single purchaser of Presto-Logs............."

 

[Bob Dylan]

What were the prices, back in the day?

Complete menu can be found here.

http://digital-library.csun.edu/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=%2FSFVH&CISOPTR=3529&DMSCALE=75.94937&DMWIDTH=600&DMHEIGHT=600&DMMODE=viewer&DMFULL=0&DMOLDSCALE=15.09054&DMX=0&DMY=0&DMTEXT=&DMTHUMB=1&REC=4&DMROTATE=0&x=77&y=10

Prices were reasonable.

In all honesty the Sante Fe did have an advantage. This was the menu put together by the famous Fred Harvey resturant chain that provided the food service, the Chefs, waiters and bus boys on the Santa Fe Chief. Since the Santa Fe was the railroad of the Hollywood Stars, high quality food ( and a private dining room no less)was a must. However, if we look at the Broadway Limiteds menu back then, it was still pretty good.

Its nice to remember how things were but I doubt if you will see a fancy upscale menu on Amtrak anytime soon, except in Joe Boardmans private car.

:hi: The old Santa Fe Station (Amtrak has a small room on the end of this Beautiful 2 story Gem)has a Great Rail Museum upstairs that features the Santa Fe Trains and the Harvey Houses that existed back in the day! Lots of stuff on the Turquise Room, Super Chief etc.

Last year we had a thread on this and IIRC the Panama Ltd. from CHI-NOL had a set price meal called the Kings Feast that was simply Overwhelming for what it consisted of and the Reasonable Price! :wub: If one used a multiple factor of x20, which seems reasonable, the prices listed would make todays Meals in the diners actually seem reasonable, not many people had the kind of money it took to Ride First Class, let alone pay extra to eat in the Diner!

Of course the Cafe Cars/Lounges would have the same price differential so even though the Service may have been Grander and the Menus more extensive back in the day, todays First Class Travel on Amtrak is actually a better deal all things considered! ( I did get to experience the old Sunset Ltd. in First Class back in the early 50s before the decline/neglect by SP started so was fortunate to have experienced that! )

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

I took several good trips when I had the pleasure of my sister living in San Francisco. I lived in Chattanooga so I took all kinds of routes.

Specifically I remember a trip in the mid 60's which was Chattanooga, Chicago, Seattle, Portland, San Francisco,Los Angeles, San Diego, back to Los Angeles then Chicago then Chattanooga. Three weeks.

And here comes the zinger: I gained 15 pounds!!!!

p.s. most of it came back off. And BTW this trip included the famed Fred Harvey meals on the Santa Fe Super Chief.

 

[dlagrua]

If we look at the Broadway Limited menu in 1970 after the PennCentral merger it still looks very impressive. Here is the full dinner menu and be sure to scroll down.

http://cajunchefryan.rymocs.com/Diner/PCD_Menu.html

WOW what a menu.

 

[WICT106]

MMMMMMMM, lamb chops.

But wasn't it hugely expensive (like a first-class plane ticket) compared to what most people took?

Yes. Most people rode trains that weren't of the "First Class" category. One example would be the SP's "Argonaut", compared to the first class "Sunset Limited." The "Argonaut," or CNW's "Viking," or the Burlington's "Black Hawk," would be examples of what most travelers rode. The "Century" was considered top-of-the-line, and we may be better off making comparisons using some of the secondary trains instead of the penultimate.

 

[WICT106]

But could you take a shower?

I think not. Many stations had shower or wash facilities as a part of their restroom facilities, though.

 

[WICT106]

What were the prices, back in the day?

See "Streamliner Schedules" for some examples. Keep in mind, though, that many of the listings at that site are for top-of-the-line, premier, "marquee," trains, and that many folks traveled by less familiar, secondary trains (ie. lower fare, or all coach, for example).

See Bureau of Labor Statistics Consumer Price Index calculator for a calculator that will put the historic prices into current amounts.

Also keep in mind that, for numerous routes, the sleeping cars were operated by Pullman, and required an additional, separate fee as well as a First Class fare.

 

[TVRM610]

This was the Torquoise room menu from the Santa Fe Chief from the 1950's. Imagine dining at a table with a white tablecloth, with fine glassware and china instead of sitting in a cramped luncheonette style booth as we have today.

Are you seriously trying to convince me that I would rather eat in the Turquoise Room than an Amtrak Dining Car? Seriously? You've obviously never seen pictures of the Turquoise Room then!

Picture as it looks today - Turquoise Room Now

Picture as it looked in standard operation - Turquoise Room Then

First of all.. Amtrak still uses White Tablecloths in all full service dining cars, they are just disposable on most trains (Auto Train and Empire Builder being the 2 exceptions.)

Now let's look at the room itself, the booths look just as "cramped" as the booths on the amtrak dining cars. If not more so. I can't imagine that couple sitting in the corner feels like they have room to spare. Most of the seats face away from a wall, that has no windows. The Turquoise room has 1 window, which does not appear to be very large.

I'm not faulting the designers of the Turquoise Room here, it was designed to be a "Private" dining room that celebrities could use to entertain. So it was designed to be small, intimate, and private. But to criticize the design of an Amtrak dining car vs. the Turquoise Room seems crazy.

I'm not commenting on the menu here, obviously the menu is far superior, and I'm positive the food quality was out of this world on the Chief.

 

[jphjaxfl]

I traveled on the Super Chief from Chicago to Los Angeles in the summer of 1970, the last year Santa Fe operated the train. The menu and the service were as good as the 1950s. Santa Fe sold meal tickets along with train tickets that were good in the Dining Cars of all long distance trains. For the trip from Chicago to Los Angeles with 5 meals, the ticket was $20.00. It covered most things on the menu except some items like broiled New York Strip Steak had a small additional charge. The Super Chief had some unique items on the menu like scrambled eggs with chopped ham and chives for breakfast. It was similar to menu's found in the dining room of 5 Star hotels. I made a circle trip in the west that summer. Unfortunately, some of the other railroads dining cars were not comparable to the 1950s. Southern Pacific had restored full dining and lounge service to several trains in exchange for cutting train frequency to 3 times per week. Espee had laid off their chefs when dining cars were replaced with Automat cars in the mid 1960s. Obviously they had not rehired chefs with the same qualifications. That summer was also the first summer for the merged Burlington Northern Railroad. While the menus and service was better than Espee and the menus were more extensive, dining cars were often out of some of the items since the distribution points had changed. Railroads knew Amtrak was coming and they did not want to revise their menus. Santa Fe maintained top quality and service on all trains with Dining Cars until the end.

 

[dlagrua]

This was the Torquoise room menu from the Santa Fe Chief from the 1950's. Imagine dining at a table with a white tablecloth, with fine glassware and china instead of sitting in a cramped luncheonette style booth as we have today.

Are you seriously trying to convince me that I would rather eat in the Turquoise Room than an Amtrak Dining Car? Seriously? You've obviously never seen pictures of the Turquoise Room then!

Picture as it looks today - Turquoise Room Now

Picture as it looked in standard operation - Turquoise Room Then

First of all.. Amtrak still uses White Tablecloths in all full service dining cars, they are just disposable on most trains (Auto Train and Empire Builder being the 2 exceptions.)

Now let's look at the room itself, the booths look just as "cramped" as the booths on the amtrak dining cars. If not more so. I can't imagine that couple sitting in the corner feels like they have room to spare. Most of the seats face away from a wall, that has no windows. The Turquoise room has 1 window, which does not appear to be very large.

I'm not faulting the designers of the Turquoise Room here, it was designed to be a "Private" dining room that celebrities could use to entertain. So it was designed to be small, intimate, and private. But to criticize the design of an Amtrak dining car vs. the Turquoise Room seems crazy.

I'm not commenting on the menu here, obviously the menu is far superior, and I'm positive the food quality was out of this world on the Chief.

You show only the corner picture of the Turquoise room but I'll give you that due to the partition the area looks smalish. As you point out it was a private dining room at the end of the observation car. The dining car was far more spacious but even the TR tables look bigger than what we now have.

Here is a picture of the SantaFe Chief regular dining car. Most passengers dined there. The Turquoise room was only used for privacy and mostly reserved for parties. The menu that I sighted was largely available in the dining car.

Take a look. Here it is today restored to its former glory.

It now resides at the California State Railroad Museum

 

[Devil's Advocate]

First of all.. Amtrak still uses White Tablecloths in all full service dining cars, they are just disposable on most trains.

It's not really a tablecloth so much as a giant paper napkin over a cheap plastic table. Reminds me of a McDonalds on wheels with waitstaff. I do agree however that the menu isn't the primary problem I have with Amtrak's meal service, it's the poor quality and low nutritional value of the food itself. I eat out all the time but if I was ever served an Amtrak grade meal at anything but a fast food location I'd promptly send it back and leave.

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

What were the prices, back in the day?

My parents considered the dining car to be extremely expensive though very good. They approached it with a having survived the Great Depression mentality, though.

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

This was the Torquoise room menu from the Santa Fe Chief from the 1950's. Imagine dining at a table with a white tablecloth, with fine glassware and china instead of sitting in a cramped luncheonette style booth as we have today.

Are you seriously trying to convince me that I would rather eat in the Turquoise Room than an Amtrak Dining Car? Seriously? You've obviously never seen pictures of the Turquoise Room then!

Picture as it looks today - Turquoise Room Now

Picture as it looked in standard operation - Turquoise Room Then

First of all.. Amtrak still uses White Tablecloths in all full service dining cars, they are just disposable on most trains (Auto Train and Empire Builder being the 2 exceptions.)

Now let's look at the room itself, the booths look just as "cramped" as the booths on the amtrak dining cars. If not more so. I can't imagine that couple sitting in the corner feels like they have room to spare. Most of the seats face away from a wall, that has no windows. The Turquoise room has 1 window, which does not appear to be very large.

I'm not faulting the designers of the Turquoise Room here, it was designed to be a "Private" dining room that celebrities could use to entertain. So it was designed to be small, intimate, and private. But to criticize the design of an Amtrak dining car vs. the Turquoise Room seems crazy.

I'm not commenting on the menu here, obviously the menu is far superior, and I'm positive the food quality was out of this world on the Chief.

You show only the corner picture of the Turquoise room but I'll give you that due to the partition the area looks smalish. As you point out it was a private dining room at the end of the observation car. The dining car was far more spacious but even the TR tables look bigger than what we now have.

Here is a picture of the SantaFe Chief regular dining car. Most passengers dined there. The Turquoise room was only used for privacy and mostly reserved for parties. The menu that I sighted was largely available in the dining car.

Take a look. Here it is today restored to its former glory.

It now resides at the California State Railroad Museum

I do not mean to be overly picky here. But I note that you say Chief instead of Super Chief. Could be you are just cutting it short and saving space. Just like saying Century instead of 20th Century Limited or Eagle instead of Texas Eagle.

Just one teensy weensy problem with that..... there was also a train known just as the Chief. This plus the Super Chief, the San Francisco Chief, the Texas Chief, the Kansas City Chief, maybe more. Though not a chief ,mention might also be made of El Capitan, originally a single level train before requipping as hi level in 1956.

The Chief was a fine train, too, and had been around longer than the Super Chief. The Super was considered the classiest of them, though. And "Super" would be the best way of shortening it.

Also it was apparently mentioned that the turquoise room was next to the observation car. Not so, the turquoise room was mid train, next door to the diner.

In fact the old Santa Fe timetable from 1953 I have in front of me shows three lounges cars on the Super: 1.dormitory lounge car at the front of the train, 2.turquoise room pleasure dome in the center and 3. observation lounge four drawing rooms 1 bedroom at the rear.

The Chief had 1. dormitory lounge, 2.mid train club lounge and 3. same type of observation 4 drawing room one bedroom car at the rear as the Super had.

I have read that one time Elizabeth Taylor and Richard Burton made themselves at home all the way across the county in the turquoise room with their own supply of booze.

I have heard a similar story about some country and western guy trashing the club car of Louisville and Nashville's Pan American Could have been Hank Williams Sr. not sure.

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

What were the prices, back in the day?

Complete menu can be found here.

http://digital-library.csun.edu/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=%2FSFVH&CISOPTR=3529&DMSCALE=75.94937&DMWIDTH=600&DMHEIGHT=600&DMMODE=viewer&DMFULL=0&DMOLDSCALE=15.09054&DMX=0&DMY=0&DMTEXT=&DMTHUMB=1&REC=4&DMROTATE=0&x=77&y=10

Prices were reasonable.

In all honesty the Sante Fe did have an advantage. This was the menu put together by the famous Fred Harvey resturant chain that provided the food service, the Chefs, waiters and bus boys on the Santa Fe Chief. Since the Santa Fe was the railroad of the Hollywood Stars, high quality food ( and a private dining room no less)was a must. However, if we look at the Broadway Limiteds menu back then, it was still pretty good.

Its nice to remember how things were but I doubt if you will see a fancy upscale menu on Amtrak anytime soon, except in Joe Boardmans private car.

:hi: The old Santa Fe Station (Amtrak has a small room on the end of this Beautiful 2 story Gem)has a Great Rail Museum upstairs that features the Santa Fe Trains and the Harvey Houses that existed back in the day! Lots of stuff on the Turquise Room, Super Chief etc.

Last year we had a thread on this and IIRC the Panama Ltd. from CHI-NOL had a set price meal called the Kings Feast that was simply Overwhelming for what it consisted of and the Reasonable Price! :wub: If one used a multiple factor of x20, which seems reasonable, the prices listed would make todays Meals in the diners actually seem reasonable, not many people had the kind of money it took to Ride First Class, let alone pay extra to eat in the Diner!

Of course the Cafe Cars/Lounges would have the same price differential so even though the Service may have been Grander and the Menus more extensive back in the day, todays First Class Travel on Amtrak is actually a better deal all things considered! ( I did get to experience the old Sunset Ltd. in First Class back in the early 50s before the decline/neglect by SP started so was fortunate to have experienced that! )

Yes, Jim, about that dinner on the Panama Limited. I have found one version of it. It was called the King's Dinner and it shows:

cocktail

fresh shrimp or crab

fish course

broiled steak

bottle of imported wine

apple pie with cheese

coffee

choice of liqueur

It shows a cost of $9.85 but it does not say what year. Te book in which I found this was 1964.

 

[Bob Dylan]

:hi: Thanks for the Info Bill! :wub: At Current Prices in the Diner, such a meal, utilizing the current menu prices would run approximately $75 plus tip.Of course the Appetizers wouldnt be as elaborate, the Wine as Good, and for sure the food wouldnt be Fresh! As I said, these might be the good old days when so many more people can AFFORD to ride in the hard to come by Sleepers and eat in the Diner and even buy the Overpriced Snacks in the Lounge Car! :excl: