Would you like the Pere Marquette to have a full service cafe car

[Save Our Trains Michigan]

Here is a poll for the Pere Marquette train. Would the passengers who use this train like the State Of Michigan to put a full service Cafe car on this train.

 

[AmtrakFan]

Didn't they use to have one and it got taken off due to lack of Sales?

 

[Save Our Trains Michigan]

That was the State Of Michigan's reason but there so Anti Amtrak Labor costs a Cafe car costs around $300,000 a year extra with the labor costs and the cost of the car.

 

[1702]

Here is a poll for the Pere Marquette train. Would the passengers who use this train like the State Of Michigan to put a full service Cafe car on this train.

Both Amtrak's & Michigan DOT's websites say the Pere Marquette has sandwich, snack & beverage service.

If that's correct, why in the world would anything more be needed on a train with a scheduled running time of 3'55"??

 

[Save Our Trains Michigan]

Well yes when passengers ask for it i belive it is there tax money paying for the train so yes i think they should try a test run to see.

Instead of just always saying no to evreything.

 

[AlanB]

Here is a poll for the Pere Marquette train. Would the passengers who use this train like the State Of Michigan to put a full service Cafe car on this train.

Both Amtrak's & Michigan DOT's websites say the Pere Marquette has sandwich, snack & beverage service.

If that's correct, why in the world would anything more be needed on a train with a scheduled running time of 3'55"??

Well it would seem that more is needed on trains with similar run times, like the NEC at 3'15" WAS-NYP, Cascades at 3'30" SEA-PDX, Capitol Corridor at 3'10" SAC-SJC, and the Surfliners at 2'40" LAX-SAN. If all of these shorter runs are deserving of a full cafe car, then one has to wonder why the Pere isnt'. :unsure:

IMHO, either the Pere should be treated the same or Amtrak needs to be rethinking cafe car service on many of these other lines. Perhaps that's where they should be trying to cut the food service losses, not in the dining cars.

 

[Sam Damon]

Some better marketing of cafe car items wouldn't hurt, either.

Fast food joints have "value meals"; you'd wonder why the high-priced marketing types at 60 Mass. can't come up with a way to do the same on cafe cars.

Sometime ago, I picked up one of the last Atlantic Coast Line timetables from 1967. If ACL could sell meal tickets to the dining cars then -- without benefit of spreadsheet analysis and computerized ticketing -- why the crap can't Amtrak?

 

[Save Our Trains Michigan]

It's like i said Amtrak would put one on but the State Of Michigan has to cover the compleate cost of the Cafe car and the State Of Michigan does not want to do that.

A Cafe car would cost around $300,000 a year extra on the Pere Marquette.

And as we all know the State Of Michigan doesn't even like to pay the $7.1 million to keep the Blue water and Pere Marquette trains running.

But the reason why i did this poll is because the passengers are asking for a cafe car and if people tell the State Of Michigan what they want there is a chance that the State will make an effort to try this idea.

 

[Guest]

Maybe they could start with doing snack cart service like on the Hiawathas.

 

[Save Our Trains Michigan]

Thats what they have now is a snack cart but the passengers want a Cafe car that they can go into and eat etc.

 

[amtrak_russ]

I take the pere marquette frequently, it is the only route i take. And most passengers are complaning why is there food on the train, and it is because they dont see the car. The crew complains because they dont have a proper area to work in. the cafe sales dont do as well because the cant offer their own food and it is up to the cafe' attendant to brew coffee' in the hotel to provide for the morning run, and usually they have troubles with making coffee' so the early morning passengers complain about the coffee'. lastly the train is always packedc and some passengers have no were to sit so if they had an amfleet cafe' car that would offer more space and seating for the train.

Matt we should start a petition.

 

[Palmland]

That was the State Of Michigan's reason but there so Anti Amtrak Labor costs a Cafe car costs around $300,000 a year extra with the labor costs and the cost of the car.

If the cost is too high for the state, but the passengers want a cafe cars. Seems the only option is to reduce the other expense - crew labor. Perhaps the state should find personnel and pay the labor cost themselves at the prevailing market rate which I suspect is less than Amtrak expense. Isn't something like that done with the Maine supported Downeaster.

Seems to me it's either that or deal with the snack cart.

 

[Save Our Trains Michigan]

Don't let the State Of Michigan fool you about money they have it but won't give it to Amtrak for the 2 State supported trains they always say there is a shortfall of money but millons of $ are wasted on useless things that can be used for Amtrak.

It is that the Reps and Sen in Michigan just are ANTI AMTRAK there is very little support from a very few Reps and Sen in Michigan unless you put the heat on them about the issues.

The quote i gave about the Cafe car is from about 2 years ago but the money generated would be much more then what it costs.

I am sick and tired of hearing how much Rail Labor is we havent seen a pay raise in the Railroad industry for almost 29 years.

An Avrage RR employee that works on call 24/7 with very few days off a year will make about $60,000 most Amtrak employees will make about $45,000 to $50,000 a year working between 5 days and 6 days a week.

 

[Guest]

Don't let the State Of Michigan fool you about money they have it but won't give it to Amtrak for the 2 State supported trains they always say there is a shortfall of money but millons of $ are wasted on useless things that can be used for Amtrak.
It is that the Reps and Sen in Michigan just are ANTI AMTRAK there is very little support from a very few Reps and Sen in Michigan unless you put the heat on them about the issues.

The quote i gave about the Cafe car is from about 2 years ago but the money generated would be much more then what it costs.

I am sick and tired of hearing how much Rail Labor is we havent seen a pay raise in the Railroad industry for almost 29 years.

An Avrage RR employee that works on call 24/7 with very few days off a year will make about $60,000 most Amtrak employees will make about $45,000 to $50,000 a year working between 5 days and 6 days a week.

May people would argue that $50,000 is a high salary for a food service worker. McDonalds or Subway would never pay that.

 

[amtrak_russ]

May people would argue that $50,000 is a high salary for a food service worker. McDonalds or Subway would never pay that.

they dont make that much. and some are union.

 

[Save Our Trains Michigan]

The LSA and food service workers are Railroad workers and are under the Railway Labor Act and have to be in a Union.

You can't compare Subway to Amtrak workers it is 2 diffrent fields.

Congress wrote the Railway Labor Act and the last time anything was opened was 1929 and it is to help the Railroads and the Employees from striking.

And it would be a big mistake for anyone to say open it up you would hurt all the freight Railroad employees.

 

[Yerry]

I ride the PM a lot, and the Rubbermaid cafe car works fine. I've sat near the stand several times, and folks tend to ask for something to drink and something to munch on. A large number (regulars) grab something in CUS before they go.

I'm sure that a survey question "Who wants to pay for an added car" would generate a far different response. Actually, the current survey isn't doing so well right now anyway.

Contrary to one's very convenient opinion, Michigan's economy is not doing well. Locally, we had yet another string of factories close. A recent MSNBC article revealed how much Michigan industry has relocated to (just) one small area near Juarez.

As far as "wasted money", Michigan has been cutting costs left and right all over the sate. Even us bottom-feeding substitute teachers lost our (paid by ourselves!) State Retirement this school year, even though the savings were a drop in the bucket. How much is SOT-M paying? I can triple my wages and still not make Amtrak Union wages, but I got the cut.

Thinking about it today, I realized that I pay for the Pere Marquette FOUR TIMES when I ride it: the ticket, Federal taxes, State taxes, and my now-lost retirement. Somehow I have a hard time justifying a $30,000-$40,000 (depending who provides the numbers-- doesn't anyone really know?) unnecessary position under those conditions. And it's a very short evening & morning run, a hotel room that I can never afford, home in Chicago (and not some desolate waypoint) at NOON! It doesn't qualify as a hardship assignment.

Come off it; there's no clamoring mass on that train asking for Cafe service, and none of them are telegraphing their concerns to Mississippi. This is clearly a "let's add another Union job".

Nowadays, just about everywhere, you prevent strikes by firing them, or closing the plant. To paraphrase the song, "I wish I had a job taht I was able to shove."

 

[Save Our Trains Michigan]

I ride the PM a lot, and the Rubbermaid cafe car works fine. I've sat near the stand several times, and folks tend to ask for something to drink and something to munch on. A large number (regulars) grab something in CUS before they go.
I'm sure that a survey question "Who wants to pay for an added car" would generate a far different response. Actually, the current survey isn't doing so well right now anyway.

Contrary to one's very convenient opinion, Michigan's economy is not doing well. Locally, we had yet another string of factories close. A recent MSNBC article revealed how much Michigan industry has relocated to (just) one small area near Juarez.

As far as "wasted money", Michigan has been cutting costs left and right all over the sate. Even us bottom-feeding substitute teachers lost our (paid by ourselves!) State Retirement this school year, even though the savings were a drop in the bucket. How much is SOT-M paying? I can triple my wages and still not make Amtrak Union wages, but I got the cut.

Thinking about it today, I realized that I pay for the Pere Marquette FOUR TIMES when I ride it: the ticket, Federal taxes, State taxes, and my now-lost retirement. Somehow I have a hard time justifying a $30,000-$40,000 (depending who provides the numbers-- doesn't anyone really know?) unnecessary position under those conditions. And it's a very short evening & morning run, a hotel room that I can never afford, home in Chicago (and not some desolate waypoint) at NOON! It doesn't qualify as a hardship assignment.

Come off it; there's no clamoring mass on that train asking for Cafe service, and none of them are telegraphing their concerns to Mississippi. This is clearly a "let's add another Union job".

Nowadays, just about everywhere, you prevent strikes by firing them, or closing the plant. To paraphrase the song, "I wish I had a job taht I was able to shove."

You are wrong i recive mass e mails of why there isnt a cafe car on this train from passengers that use it daily i am also in charge of Save Our Trains Michigan which is our primary group you dont have to tell me anything My Dad has worked for the State of Michigan for over 30 years in the Att Gen office plus my mom was a teacher for over 30 years i know what evrey hand is doing in the State Of Michigan.

And if passengers ask me to try to get a cafe car on the train i will do so thats why our groups are here to try to get the state to listen to the passengers that use the train.

 

[AMTK 28]

Lastly the train is always packedc and some passengers have no were to sit so if they had an amfleet cafe' car that would offer more space and seating for the train.

An Amcafe will only hold 15 passengers. That won't be much of an improvment.

What they really need to add is a fourth Horizon coach that will hold about 70 passengers. That would help the problem you describe better.

Amtrak's Blue Water service trains that run between Chicago and Port Huron could also use an additional coach. That train is often packed as well.

 

[Save Our Trains Michigan]

We are dealing with this issue but each car on the train has to be paied for by the State of Michigan thats why the Blue water on the slower days will have 3 coaches and on the week end it will have 4 that was all worked out by the State Of Michigan.

The State Of Michigan hast total comtrol of the Pere Marquette and Blue water from how many coaches if they will have food service to having agents in the stations.

 

[had8ley]

Come off it; there's no clamoring mass on that train asking for Cafe service, and none of them are telegraphing their concerns to Mississippi. This is clearly a "let's add another Union job".

You are wrong i recive mass e mails of why there isnt a cafe car on this train from passengers that use it daily i am also in charge of Save Our Trains Michigan which is our primary group you dont have to tell me anything My Dad has worked for the State of Michigan for over 30 years in the Att Gen office plus my mom was a teacher for over 30 years i know what evrey hand is doing in the State Of Michigan.

And if passengers ask me to try to get a cafe car on the train i will do so thats why our groups are here to try to get the state to listen to the passengers that use the train.

LET'S USE COMMON SENSE HERE; MY MOTHER AND DAD WORKED FOR THE WAR EFFORT IN WW II BUT THEY DID NOT KNOW "EVERYTHING" OR WHAT "EVERY HAND" WAS DOING IN WASHINGTON. YOU NEED TO RECTIFY THE JULY 3rd FIASCO BEFORE YOU START RUNNING THE STATE OF MICHIGAN FROM LOUISIANA. THE ONLY ONE WHO CAME CLOSE TO "KNOWING" IT ALL IS IN THE POKEY IN OAKDALE, LA~ EDWIN

EDWARDS.

 

[frj1983]

Just out of curiosity,

How many cafe/snack cars are available for service? I'm thinking that fully functioning low level cars might be on the rare side these days. And Amtrak also trys to run trains with less cars and thus less engines these days, could it be possible that is another reason? Granted a P32 can pull a lot of cars and the PM doesn't have a lot of cars, but I assume less cars = less fuel used as well as the cost of labor saved.

I'm not labor bashing here, just ruminating on possible reasons for not putting such a car on the PM.

 

[Save Our Trains Michigan]

Like i said before the State Of Michigan says how many cars will be on each train and the State feels that 2-3 coach cars is all they need on the Pere Marquette the Blue water runs with 2-4 coaches and a Cafe car.

 

[AlanB]

Just out of curiosity,
How many cafe/snack cars are available for service? I'm thinking that fully functioning low level cars might be on the rare side these days. And Amtrak also trys to run trains with less cars and thus less engines these days, could it be possible that is another reason? Granted a P32 can pull a lot of cars and the PM doesn't have a lot of cars, but I assume less cars = less fuel used as well as the cost of labor saved.

A quick count on my part shows something over 90 cafes/dinettes on the roster, so I don't think that a lack of cars is the issue. And I didn't count the Amfleet II cafe cars as they are primarily used on the LD's only. I'm sure the costs has far more to do with it than lack of equipment.

You are correct however, less cars=less fuel used.

 

[frj1983]

Just out of curiosity,

How many cafe/snack cars are available for service? I'm thinking that fully functioning low level cars might be on the rare side these days. And Amtrak also trys to run trains with less cars and thus less engines these days, could it be possible that is another reason? Granted a P32 can pull a lot of cars and the PM doesn't have a lot of cars, but I assume less cars = less fuel used as well as the cost of labor saved.

A quick count on my part shows something over 90 cafes/dinettes on the roster, so I don't think that a lack of cars is the issue. And I didn't count the Amfleet II cafe cars as they are primarily used on the LD's only. I'm sure the costs has far more to do with it than lack of equipment.

You are correct however, less cars=less fuel used.

Thanks Alan,

Of the 90 on the roster, I wonder how many are in good working order? I only ask because I see a combination of various cars in the Chicago Yard...deadline, and wonder how many others are like this?

In the long run, though, I will agree, "cost" "cost" "cost" is the current Amtrak mantra. Not that saving is bad, but I sometimes wonder if the decision makers cut off their noses to spite their face."