Why take the Pennsylvanian instead of Cardinal to Philly

[BillVas]

I see the Pennsylvanian goes around Horseshoe Cruve but what equipment does it use?? I am trying to deceide between that and taking the Cardinal to Philadelphia. Any suggestions would be helpful.

Billvas

 

[Rafi]

I see the Pennsylvanian goes around Horseshoe Cruve but what equipment does it use?? I am trying to deceide between that and taking the Cardinal to Philadelphia. Any suggestions would be helpful. Billvas

Bill,

The Pennsylvanian uses Amfleet equipment with a Cafe car. I rode the route once on the now-extinct Three Rivers and while the landscape was pleasant, horseshoe curve was the only "hey, look out the window" moment for me, and that lasted about 15 seconds. Still, it's a nice ride through Lancaster country, to be sure.

The Cardinal, by comparison, runs with Amfleet coaches, a new Diner/Lounge (which serves full meals), and a Viewliner. It's also a longer trip to Philly. The scenery is much more spectacular if you're interested in mountain/gorge expeditions. My wife and I rode from Charleston to Baltimore last weekend and loved the sights, which last for a good portion of the day, even once you clear the gorge.

-Rafi

 

[wayman]

Choosing between the Pennsylvanian and the Cardinal? I assume you mean the Capitol-PGH transfer-Pennsylvanian?

The Pennsylvanian uses Amfleet equipment with a Cafe car. I rode the route once on the now-extinct Three Rivers and while the landscape was pleasant, horseshoe curve was the only "hey, look out the window" moment for me, and that lasted about 15 seconds. Still, it's a nice ride through Lancaster country, to be sure.

Fifteen seconds? I recall it being more like several minutes, counting the whole curve, but we may have had a slow orders or something the times I've been there. Fifteen seconds for passing the old GP and small park in the center, sure. In any event, it's an extremely short amount of time.

It was much better on the Three Rivers, when there were twenty freight cars on the tail end that you could clearly see out the window for a long time; with the six-car Pennsylvanian the full effect of "we are going around a very long rather tight curve" was lessened. I imagine if there's a freight on one of the other tracks, it's also pretty cool (unless the freight is on the inside track obstructing your view of the reservoir, of course...).

The Susquehenna River bridge is also quite nice. Again, extremely brief, and it's no Hellgate, but it is a very nice bridge.

Big negative about Capitol/Pennsylvanian (assuming that's what you're thinking of): the 5:45 AM transfer.

Moderate positive about the Capitol/Pennsylvanian: you arrive four hours earlier into Philadelphia, well in time for dinner and an evening in the city if that's of interest (and you only have to deal with breakfast and lunch in the cafe).

The Cardinal, by comparison, runs with Amfleet coaches, a new Diner/Lounge (which serves full meals), and a Viewliner. It's also a longer trip to Philly. The scenery is much more spectacular if you're interested in mountain/gorge expeditions. My wife and I rode from Charleston to Baltimore last weekend and loved the sights, which last for a good portion of the day, even once you clear the gorge.

If you can get into the Viewliner for less than $300--isn't low-bucket on the Cardinal somewhere around there? Quite true about the sights, regardless of where you're sitting, but be sure to get a window seat or be friendly with your seatmate--there's no traditional lounge car. (Half the Diner/Lounge, sure, but it was pretty full between being half-size and being full of people waiting for the Diner half much of the trip.)

Thurmond, if you're going through it slowly (we crept through at about 5mph), is a great small railroad town with a beautiful old station well-restored. Though I may be more fond/aware of its history than most, as it was the subject of an entire issue of the C&OHS quarterly some many years ago, being a prototypical "rural town whose sole raison d'etre was the C&O".

Bottom line, IMO: the Diner/Lounge is a huge step above the cafe fare; I'd take four meals here over a Superliner dinner and two cafe meals on the Pennsylvanian unless arrival time in Philadelphia is an issue or unless the seeing/going around Horseshoe Curve experience trumps a day of pretty scenery for you.

 

[AlanB]

If you opt for the Pennsy, then I would highly recommend spending the extra bucks for a Business Class seat. Doing so will not only make it easy for you to see how long the line for the cafe is, before you walk over to buy something, but this route uses the Club-Dinette cars. These cars are the former Metroliner First Class cars and they still retain the 2 & 1 seating from those days. Half the seats were removed and tables installed to create the cafe side.

But on the other side you still have the nice 2 & 1 seating, now updated with faux-leather coverings and new cushions. The seats also offer calf rests, foot rests, and are really quite comfortable, especially for a longer distance ride like the Pennsy.

Now all of that said, I'd probably still opt for the Cardinal, just because of the superior scenery. Of course if you've already seen that route and haven't seen the Pennsy's route, that's a horse of a different color.

 

[Chris J.]

If you can get into the Viewliner for less than $300--isn't low-bucket on the Cardinal somewhere around there? Quite true about the sights, regardless of where you're sitting, but be sure to get a window seat or be friendly with your seatmate--there's no traditional lounge car. (Half the Diner/Lounge, sure, but it was pretty full between being half-size and being full of people waiting for the Diner half much of the trip.)

I've seen the upgrade for $167 (October 14th, i tried a few random dates), so it can be done for less but with only one i think sleeper it does sell pretty quick.

I guess it's equipment shortage that is the reason for this, cause it doesn't seem like lack of demand.

I did look at the Cardinal between CHI and WAS for my upcoming trip, but decided to go for the Capitol, which was around half the cost.

Cheers

Chris

 

[Green Maned Lion]

I am sure equipment shortage is part of it, but from what I read they also have only one sleeper and no diner because with that consist the train can be pulled with a single P42.

 

[AlanB]

I am sure equipment shortage is part of it, but from what I read they also have only one sleeper and no diner because with that consist the train can be pulled with a single P42.

The engine(s) have nothing to do with the Cardinal only having one sleeper and no diner. It is simply lack of equipment, and perhaps lack of effort on Amtrak's part. Amtrak would probably love to dump this route, since it is long and circutous, but it can't get rid of the route. So it runs three days a week, with as minimal a consist as possible.

But as far an engines go, the City of New Orleans regularly only had one engine to pull a bag, crew dorm, sleeper, diner (prior to the CCC), sightseer lounge (again prior to the CCC), and two or three coaches. And for a while, until Amtrak had too many engine failures and CSX complained, Amtrak sent out Silver Service trains with only one engine, again pulling a bag, crew dorm, 2 or 3 Viewliners, diner, cafe, 3 coaches.