Why is there no good Light Rail to Subway connection in BAL?

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steamtrain6868

Train Attendant
Joined
Mar 22, 2011
Messages
98
Why unlike Newark and other places is there no Subway to Light Rail Connection in Baltimore....Unless you know better you end up walking quit a few blocks to make the transfer...having a duel heavy rail and Light rail system also seems to be a waste as well since you have to have 2 separate shops for this equipment.
 
Why unlike Newark and other places is there no Subway to Light Rail Connection in Baltimore....Unless you know better you end up walking quit a few blocks to make the transfer...having a duel heavy rail and Light rail system also seems to be a waste as well since you have to have 2 separate shops for this equipment.
You mean the fact that Newark's single mass transit line, the so called City Subway and the so-called Newark Light Rail that is so slow, you can walk faster in many cases, that is essentially one line that NJT is too damned inefficient to simply run through all the time?
 
Single Indoor connection. as a a matter of fact for years I was told to Walk to Charles Center by MTA bus and light rail drivers.....I had no Idea till last year about the Lexington Connection Baltimore could have run a light rail subway and as a matter of fact a subway was not even needed for this Midsized city. Ever try walking up Lexington in rail(what Baltimore in known for) and slush with heavy luggage? Despite the Market which is nice yes in instresting way this is not Portland OR or San Franssico Public Market...It is nowhere as nice as Phillys Reading Terminal Market.

and hot heat and humidity. It would not be so bad if there were intresting stores but all there is is guetto pawn shops and a bombed out Hechs Store....If transit was supposed to have "Transit Orenited Development" The retail situation Baltimore is a lousy example. Whatever is left of retail main street on North Howard is a bombed out mess.
 
Single Indoor connection. as a a matter of fact for years I was told to Walk to Charles Center by MTA bus and light rail drivers.....I had no Idea till last year about the Lexington Connection Baltimore could have run a light rail subway and as a matter of fact a subway was not even needed for this Midsized city. Ever try walking up Lexington in rail(what Baltimore in known for) and slush with heavy luggage? Despite the Market which is nice yes in instresting way this is not Portland OR or San Franssico Public Market...It is nowhere as nice as Phillys Reading Terminal Market.

and hot heat and humidity. It would not be so bad if there were intresting stores but all there is is guetto pawn shops and a bombed out Hechs Store....If transit was supposed to have "Transit Orenited Development" The retail situation Baltimore is a lousy example. Whatever is left of retail main street on North Howard is a bombed out mess.
 
Single Indoor connection. as a a matter of fact for years I was told to Walk to Charles Center by MTA bus and light rail drivers.....I had no Idea till last year about the Lexington Connection Baltimore could have run a light rail subway and as a matter of fact a subway was not even needed for this Midsized city. Ever try walking up Lexington in rail(what Baltimore in known for) and slush with heavy luggage? Despite the Market which is nice yes in instresting way this is not Portland OR or San Franssico Public Market...It is nowhere as nice as Phillys Reading Terminal Market.

and hot heat and humidity. It would not be so bad if there were intresting stores but all there is is guetto pawn shops and a bombed out Hechs Store....If transit was supposed to have "Transit Orenited Development" The retail situation Baltimore is a lousy example. Whatever is left of retail main street on North Howard is a bombed out mess.
You shouldn't believe everything that you see on TV.

That's probably the most inaccurate description of Baltimore I've ever read.
 
First of all, I am not responding to the imbecile OP. I'm just rambling about transportation methods for the 3 people on this board who don't already know, understand, and agree with what I'm about to say.

A subway and a lightrail and busses are three different transportation methods used for different things. Subways are for rapid, high density, and relatively long distance transportation through areas where ground space is too valuable to take it up with a grade separated above ground rail line. Lightrail is for lower density, and much more frequent stops. Lightrail is generally used to describe what we used to think of as an interurban. It can fit into the current infrastructure, does not require expensive tunnel construction, but runs at lower speeds because it has to share space with other vehicles. A light rail line is done where you need something a little faster and a little larger than a bus.

Busses, likewise, make tons of sense for much lower density routes, or routes where the density of space usage is too high for any kind of even mildly separated right of way to rob space, but not high enough, or too geologically unstable, to handle a subway.

Whether it makes sense to spend money to make them interconnect depends on usage, traffic flow, and all kinds of other things. I am not a Baltimore resident, and haven't even made a cursory examination of its traffic patterns, so I won't even try to form an opinion of how well or how badly the system works for its normal users.

While connections between modes make sense, if it costs, lets say, $350 million to create that connection, and estimates suggest that perhaps 30 people a day will make that connection, the connection is pointless. Especially if the advantage of connection for those 30 people is not having to walk 100 yards out of doors.
 
Single Indoor connection. as a a matter of fact for years I was told to Walk to Charles Center by MTA bus and light rail drivers.....I had no Idea till last year about the Lexington Connection Baltimore could have run a light rail subway and as a matter of fact a subway was not even needed for this Midsized city. Ever try walking up Lexington in rail(what Baltimore in known for) and slush with heavy luggage? Despite the Market which is nice yes in instresting way this is not Portland OR or San Franssico Public Market...It is nowhere as nice as Phillys Reading Terminal Market.

and hot heat and humidity. It would not be so bad if there were intresting stores but all there is is guetto pawn shops and a bombed out Hechs Store....If transit was supposed to have "Transit Orenited Development" The retail situation Baltimore is a lousy example. Whatever is left of retail main street on North Howard is a bombed out mess.
You shouldn't believe everything that you see on TV.

That's probably the most inaccurate description of Baltimore I've ever read.
*SINGING* "la, la, la, la, lalalalala, la, la, la, la"
 
Different Types of Traffic? No its the same working poor minorities who ride the Light Rail to Work at the BWI Airport or to Hunt Valley as there kids who ride the Subway to school and to from Mondowin Mall....Now if there kids would just behave I could take the subway two stations over to Johns Hopkins without a temporary shutdown because of fights at 300 PM every day which cause the MTA Police to swoop in. Matter of fact we should turn these half abandoned malls everywhere and make them into high schools see Dead Malls.com
 
I live 20 minutes from downtown, I don't need some cherry picked Google images to convince me that you're wrong.

Although you're starting to let your true colors show through. Baltimore (or any other city) would be a much better place it it wasn't for those working poor minorities, amirite? :rolleyes:
 
I live 20 minutes from downtown, I don't need some cherry picked Google images to convince me that you're wrong.

Although you're starting to let your true colors show through. Baltimore (or any other city) would be a much better place it it wasn't for those working poor minorities, amirite? :rolleyes:
'Ya got sucked in Ryan, call for a lifeline...........
 
[Although you're starting to let your true colors show through. Baltimore (or any other city) would be a much better place it it wasn't for those working poor minorities, amirite? :rolleyes:
No because were else but in Baltimore can I get fried oysters,Fry's and a 40 ounce of Hurricane Malt Liquor for 5.00.....
 
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I wouldn't say that Baltimore is the safest city on planet earth (because it's not, yay murder captial!). However, like city on the face of the earth there are good places in the city, and bad places. I would say though if you get mugged or robbed in the one block from Lexington Street to Lexington Market, you've probably done something incredibly wrong. That area is by no stretch of the mind the "rough" part of Baltimore. I've lived in Baltimore, and I've been to the hood in Baltimore, but if you're aware of your surroundings, and can read a map, that's a hard connection to screw up. And part of the reason why you'd be hard pressed to see a single indoor connection between the two is Light Rail runs at street level pretty much the entire route, while the subway in that area is below grade. Makes it a bit challenging to create an indoor connection...
 
He/Her/It has no true colors, Ryan. His/Her/Its purpose in life is to create responses. Please refrain from allowing him completion of his purpose. Then he'll be Jeremy Hilary Boob, PhD. But less funny.
 
It is done in Boston with a elevator and long underground walkway between (red line heavy rail) and green line(light rail)
 
It is done in Boston with a elevator and long underground walkway between (red line heavy rail) and green line(light rail)
In Boston at that point where the Red & Green lines connect, the Green line is underground and running similar to a subway. In fact, that underground portion claims the title of the first subway in the US, beating NY City by a year or two.

So again, it's vastly different connecting two underground trains as opposed to trying to connect one underground train and another train that runs in the middle of the street.
 
The Hudson Bergen Light Rail has a Few above or non indoor connections @ Hoboken , Newport , Port Imperial , and Exchange Place. The Riverline also has a few current and future no indoor / outside connections. Connecting services don't have to be indoors all the time , look overseas at Europe and Asian.
 
It should be pointed out that there were complex planning/funding issues surrounding the construction of the light rail and Metro systems.

The Baltimore Metro Subway, a heavy rail line, was intended to be the first section of a larger region-wide rail system. It was constructed in the early 1980s, and opened its first segment in 1983. The primary hub of the system was intended to be Charles Center.

When the Metro opened, federal funding for transit was already falling. Building grade-separated transit was (and is) very expensive. At the same time, residents in Anne Arundel County were opposing the southern radial Metro line, and it got canned.

Fast forward a few years. With little federal funding available, and the long delay associated with just getting those dollars, Maryland decided to do something smart. They built the Light Rail without federal funding. This got the project started more quickly, but it came with trade-offs. It opened in 1992.

Among those trade-offs were long portions of single-track right-of-way, almost no grade separation, and street-running in Downtown Baltimore. In the late 1990s, sections of the Light Rail were closed for long periods to enable double-tracking, and ridership never fully recovered from those closures.

Since the Metro had already been built, stations were not optimally located to provide for a direct connection. The Light Rail was using Howard Street because it proved to be the best alternative. Howard Street met the abandoned trolley right-of-way used for the Light Rail on the south side of Downtown. It also provided a level, straight route directly through Downtown and met the freight line used north of the city. Eutaw Street, which the Metro runs under on the west side of Downtown, did not meet the right-of-way on either side of Downtown. That means using Eutaw for the LRT would have required a diversion.

A Downtown subway for the LRT was out of the cards because Maryland built the project using 100% local dollars. That meant that a nice underground connection and station couldn't be afforded at Lexington Market for the LRT.

Over at Charles Center, the only way to provide a direct connection to the Metro would be to run underground (not affordable) or on the surface of Charles Street, which was a non-starter because the alignment just doesn't work.

I agree that the lack of a direct connection is a problem, though it is not a major one. A block walk is not a huge hurdle, though it probably discourages some riders from making it. And it reinforces the notion that Baltimore doesn't have one transit system, but two.
 
Among those trade-offs were long portions of single-track right-of-way, almost no grade separation, and street-running in Downtown Baltimore. In the late 1990s, sections of the Light Rail were closed for long periods to enable double-tracking, and ridership never fully recovered from those closures.
That double tracking project was basically approved in late 1999, as noted in this FTA document; construction started a few years later IIRC. However ridership has more than recovered from the project. Here's a quick rundown of the numbers from the National Transit Database:

1996 - 6.287 million rides taken.

1999 - 7.78 million rides.

2009 - 8.838 million rides.
 
In Chicago the CTA has 2 different underground/above ground connections:

1. Roosevelt station btw Red Line (underground) and Green/Orange lines (el structure)

2. Clark station between Blue Line (underground) and Loop el trains

I know that the Chicago example is not the same as BAL since all the Chicago routes are heavy-rail

but I think the heavy/light rail distinction is lost on the general public. In BAL's case they are both rail lines that

would offer logical connections if it were convenient. The point is, underground/above ground connections

are indeed possible.

The issue, IMHO, is not whether the current connection is convenient enough...that's subjective...but whether the

connection is obvious and clear. Riders, even first-time riders, should not have to "figure it out" but should instead

be better guided on how to make the connection.

In terms of how useful an indoor connection would be...I'd bet that people living in the northwest suburbs of BAL

would be more likely to utilize transit to get to BWI airport if they had a more convenient connection between the

subway and the light rail. Would that alone justify the spending it would require to build a better connection? Probably

not, but I don't think you can just write these two lines off as "different systems for different uses."
 
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In Chicago the CTA has 2 different underground/above ground connections:

1. Roosevelt station btw Red Line (underground) and Green/Orange lines (el structure)

2. Clark station between Blue Line (underground) and Loop el trains

I know that the Chicago example is not the same as BAL since all the Chicago routes are heavy-rail

but I think the heavy/light rail distinction is lost on the general public. In BAL's case they are both rail lines that

would offer logical connections if it were convenient. The point is, underground/above ground connections

are indeed possible.

The issue, IMHO, is not whether the current connection is convenient enough...that's subjective...but whether the

connection is obvious and clear. Riders, even first-time riders, should not have to "figure it out" but should instead

be better guided on how to make the connection.

In terms of how useful an indoor connection would be...I'd bet that people living in the northwest suburbs of BAL

would be more likely to utilize transit to get to BWI airport if they had a more convenient connection between the

subway and the light rail. Would that alone justify the spending it would require to build a better connection? Probably

not, but I don't think you can just write these two lines off as "different systems for different uses."
The connection between Baltimore metro and light rail is probably more comparable to the transfer between the State/Lake Loop 'L' station and the Lake/State Red Line subway station on the CTA.
 
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