Why and how often are trains run completely backward?

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BALtoNYPtraveler

BALtoNYPtraveler

Train Attendant
Joined
Oct 9, 2015
Messages
83
Location
Baltimore
Sunday morning I rode the Northeast Regional from NYC to BAL. It was the 143, leaving NYP at 9:47 AM. As we left the station I was disappointed to see that we were riding backward. At first I thought it was just our car (business) but then they announced that the entire train was backward and apologized. I asked the snack attendant why they might have done this - like, did they not have the time or space to turn it around? But received no answer. At first I thought it was okay, and tried to enjoy the view, but about halfway through the ride, my companion and I both admitted we were feeling some motion sickness.

I have never encountered this. Why would they do this, and is this a common occurrence? I sure hope not.
 
jiml said:
Lack of turnaround time?
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Most likely. Incoming came in late. The choice was either cancel or run the outbound very late after turning the consist or run the train on time but without turning the consist. The usual choice is to do the latter.
 
Also either end of bus bridges when trains are stopped short and turned around because the track is blocked due to a major derailment or natural disaster and passengers are bused between the two consists. Mostly they just wye the engines and run them around, not the whole consist.
 
MARC Rider said:
I've ridden out of Wahington on an incoming that arrived late and couldn't be turned. The consist was reversed (i.e., business class at the front of the train), but they always managed to reverse rhe seats. so riders were facing forward.
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That's the important thing to note... the seats can be turned. Now if the train was late the crew may not have had time to turn them, but in a perfect world the crew would have turned as many seats as possible before boarding and then gone back through the train as time permits offering to turn the remaining seats.
 
amtkstn said:
The northbound Eagle travels backwards out of San Antonio for two miles out of the station.
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And the #421 Cutout Cars ( Coach and Sleeper)from the Eaglette are sometimes hooked up "Backwards" to #1.

The Coach Seats aren't turned until Daylight which means Coach Passengers have to ride "Backwards" thru West Texas for a few Hours.

Also,the Sleeper will have the Bedrooms and Roomettes switching ends of the Car when this happens.
 
tomfuller said:
I do remember "riding backwards" from Philadelphia to Harrisburg many years ago. The train (Pennsylvanian?) had just come into Philadelphia from Harrisburg. It was at the end of my 30 day rail pass. Glad to get back home no matter which direction we were traveling.
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They Keystone cars are all half facing one direction and half facing the other.
 
Several trains, especially those stopping at a "stub end" station, will back in or out for various distances.
 
Do you know if train originated at NYP? It did! It could be a train came from WAS and was cleaned at station and motor placed on other end of train. It might have been train 160 scheduled to arrive NYP 08:45. did you leave on time?
 
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Train 143 originates at Springfield MA from the cleaned and turned counterpart the night before, train 146, if I read the schedule accurately.

As a 25+ year Springfield area resident, I've taken an interest in the track layout there. Unless there have been track changes since 2019 last I checked, there's an Achilles Heel to the once daily (2x on weekends?) train that is the first (and only) full regional train from there.

The problem is wyeing the train during the wee hours of the night. If either the Holyoke-side or Worcester-side switch(turnout) is OOS, there is no way to turn the consist within 30 or more miles (that I am aware of). There is only the one, low speed, rarely used track that connects going from Hokyoke towards Boston that can be used to wye the train.

But more importantly, find a rested crew available, willing to take the call, -AND- the train can be scheduled, run, and be cleaned, refueled, inspected, and ready to leave Springfield in the roughly 4 hours available to get it all done. Note there are no spare NEC regional trains nearer than Boston or NYP.


Sent from my Galaxy
 
On my only ride on the Broadway Limited (1981), we left NYP backwards because we reversed direction at PHL.

My dad remarked “the Pennsylvania RR wouldn’t have run the Broadway backwards” — which was true because it bypassed 30th St Station in PHL.

However, the PRR ran many other trains from NYP to PHL and then west across Pennsylvania. Did the PRR run those trains backwards from NYP to PHL?
 
crescent-zephyr said:
That's the important thing to note... the seats can be turned. Now if the train was late the crew may not have had time to turn them, but in a perfect world the crew would have turned as many seats as possible before boarding and then gone back through the train as time permits offering to turn the remaining seats.
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How difficult is it to turn the seats? I guess there must be some security mechanism in place so they don't start turning by themselves on bumpy track. This needs to be properly engaged etc and so only staff with proper training are allowed to turn them. Staff on the NEC don't typically have very much time that they don't have anything else to do. This might end up in a handful of seats being turned at best. At the next turnaround of the train, these would have to be turned back, again with the risk of some being missed. The staff might end up deciding it is not worth the effort.
 
Roomette11 said:
On my only ride on the Broadway Limited (1981), we left NYP backwards because we reversed direction at PHL.

My dad remarked “the Pennsylvania RR wouldn’t have run the Broadway backwards” — which was true because it bypassed 30th St Station in PHL.

However, the PRR ran many other trains from NYP to PHL and then west across Pennsylvania. Did the PRR run those trains backwards from NYP to PHL?
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The trains that did run thru mostly bypassed 30th Street Station by turning at Zoo Tower, and utilizing the "New York and Pittsburgh Subway" to connect to the Main Line. North Philadelphia was for them, "the only station stop for Philadelphia". The ones that did go thru 30th Street Station did run backwards, and reverse direction. The Pennsylvania Limited was the most notable one that did that.

The early San Francisco Zephyr, when it still went into Cheyenne, ran backwards between Denver and Cheyenne. Doing so avoided turning at both Denver and Cheyenne Stations. They changed locomotives at Denver, but just ran them around the train at Cheyenne. When they bypassed Cheyenne by stopping out at Borie, they began wyeing the train either entering or leaving Denver.
 
cirdan said:
How difficult is it to turn the seats? I guess there must be some security mechanism in place so they don't start turning by themselves on bumpy track. This needs to be properly engaged etc and so only staff with proper training are allowed to turn them. Staff on the NEC don't typically have very much time that they don't have anything else to do. This might end up in a handful of seats being turned at best. At the next turnaround of the train, these would have to be turned back, again with the risk of some being missed. The staff might end up deciding it is not worth the effort.
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They require a lot of physical exertion to turn them. And IIRC, they are so close together, that they must be all turned together or they won't clear each other, at least in an Amfleet I...
 
cirdan said:
How difficult is it to turn the seats? I guess there must be some security mechanism in place so they don't start turning by themselves on bumpy track. This needs to be properly engaged etc and so only staff with proper training are allowed to turn them. Staff on the NEC don't typically have very much time that they don't have anything else to do. This might end up in a handful of seats being turned at best. At the next turnaround of the train, these would have to be turned back, again with the risk of some being missed. The staff might end up deciding it is not worth the effort.
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Turning an individual seat pair on Amfleets (or Superliners) is not that difficult, and almost anyone with enough strength to push down the lock lever by their foot can do it. I have done it. But remember in an 8 car train there are 200+ seat pairs, and that will take a while for a single person or even two persons to do it. Most likely for that reason, if time is short, they will avoid turning seats.
 
cirdan said:
How difficult is it to turn the seats? I guess there must be some security mechanism in place so they don't start turning by themselves on bumpy track. This needs to be properly engaged etc and so only staff with proper training are allowed to turn them. Staff on the NEC don't typically have very much time that they don't have anything else to do. This might end up in a handful of seats being turned at best. At the next turnaround of the train, these would have to be turned back, again with the risk of some being missed. The staff might end up deciding it is not worth the effort.
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It's very easy - I used to be a Conductor on a tourist railroad and on certain excursions, we had to turn all of the seats during the layovers.

But yes, it does take time - which is why I said in a perfect world since the Conductors may not have been able to even think about the seats before boarding - who knows. It would have been nice if the cafe attendant would have at least turned the Business Class seats though.
 
On the Pennsylvanian and Keystones running backwards is unavoidable. NYP is north of Zoo Interlocking and PHL is south. A train from HAR stopping at PHL must proceed south on the NE Corridor to get to PHL then north to NYP. Since the stop at PHL is only about 25 minutes on the Pennsylvanian (for the diesel/electric engine swap) and much shorter on Keystones there is no time to switch the seat orientations. Typically through passengers remain onboard both services, so that would add an additional impediment to switching the seats.
 

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