Which is used more up to Boston?

[Crescent ATN & TCL]

I should have been more specific, I was talking about the ALP-46A, that (again I'm relying on Wikipedia) won't be delivered until 2010. Presumably, this would be the power that Amtrak would be after, not the older ALP-46 (7100 HP vs 8500 HP).
Of course, all this is outside of my personal knowledge and wikipedia may well be completely wrong (and if it is, would someone kindly update it?)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ALP-46

If I remember right the ALP-46's are only rated for 100mph and the ALP-46As are rated for 125mph. I assume this has something to do with NJ needed pulling power and acceleration more than higher top speeds.

 

[Acela150]

I'm not a big fan of the ALP-46 units.

I asked my friend at Amtrak what a potental replacement is fo the AEM-7. As he has mentioned to me they're on the path to "stored as dead". I asked him if they're going to look into more HHP's or use experemental's as the way they built the toasters.

Thanks,

Stephen

 

[Ryan]

I should have been more specific, I was talking about the ALP-46A, that (again I'm relying on Wikipedia) won't be delivered until 2010. Presumably, this would be the power that Amtrak would be after, not the older ALP-46 (7100 HP vs 8500 HP).
Of course, all this is outside of my personal knowledge and wikipedia may well be completely wrong (and if it is, would someone kindly update it?)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ALP-46

If I remember right the ALP-46's are only rated for 100mph and the ALP-46As are rated for 125mph. I assume this has something to do with NJ needed pulling power and acceleration more than higher top speeds.

Precisely - when they get the ALP-46A's they're going to steal the "Fastest commuter railroad" from my beloved MARC (which maxes out at 110).

 

[AlanB]

I should have been more specific, I was talking about the ALP-46A, that (again I'm relying on Wikipedia) won't be delivered until 2010. Presumably, this would be the power that Amtrak would be after, not the older ALP-46 (7100 HP vs 8500 HP).
Of course, all this is outside of my personal knowledge and wikipedia may well be completely wrong (and if it is, would someone kindly update it?)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ALP-46

If I remember right the ALP-46's are only rated for 100mph and the ALP-46As are rated for 125mph. I assume this has something to do with NJ needed pulling power and acceleration more than higher top speeds.

Yes, when stops are only a few miles apart in many cases, having an engine capable of 125 MPH isn't exactly a priority since you've already started braking for the next stop long before you can get up to 125 MPH.

 

[Rafi]

Precisely - when they get the ALP-46A's they're going to steal the "Fastest commuter railroad" from my beloved MARC (which maxes out at 110).

Not quite. MARC runs the all-MARC III (Kawasaki Bi-level) trains at 125 MPH with their AEM-7s and HHP-8s on the Penn Line. The new MP36s have/are being tested in Pueblo at 125 as well, but no word on if they'll run those at that speed in revenue service.

Rafi

 

[jis]

Wikipedia says ~8500 HP and a max speed of 125 (to drag 14 bilevels), so it looks like they should be sufficient replacements.
I've read nothing but complaints about the reliability of the HHP-8, so I wouldn't expect to see another order.

I believe that NJT found out that the engine can't drag 14 multi-level cars and still meet the schedule, but Jishnu would know for sure. But otherwise NJT is quite happy with the ALP series and the locomotive performs quite well for them. .

Actually, the ALP-46A is the engine that has been ordered by NJT. This a very different beast from the current ALP-46s. The current ALP46s are essentially clones of Class 101 packaged in an FRA compliant body. The ALP-46A will use the same basic body, but the innards will be based on the Bombardier TRAXX kit, and use more upto date technology like IGBT. It will also have a better traction control system. Considering that the ALP-46 probably has the best traction control system of all the electric engines in the US at present that should be quite a feat, and it will probably be even more unkind to ones ears on slippery tracks. But allegedly it will be able to pull at least 12 MLVs.

The current ALP-46s are limited to 10. And also it will have MAS of 125mph so that NJT outer zone expresses on the NEC can be run using a single slot on the fast middle tracks without interfering with Amtrak expresses. Currently the 100mph limit on NJT expresses causes such expresses to interfere with Amtrak expresses due to the speed difference. ALP-46As will thus help increase effective capacity of the NEC for express service.

Oh BTW, the cost per unit including spares is over $10 million. NJT has option for 33 associated with the firm order for 27.

I think the ALP-46A would form a very sound platform for the standard electric engine on the NEC. It is already capable of going anywhere on the NEC modulo a little tweaking of the cab signaling and ATC system. The NJT usints come with ASES, which is compatible with ACSES but is not ACSES.

 

[Ryan]

Precisely - when they get the ALP-46A's they're going to steal the "Fastest commuter railroad" from my beloved MARC (which maxes out at 110).

Not quite. MARC runs the all-MARC III (Kawasaki Bi-level) trains at 125 MPH with their AEM-7s and HHP-8s on the Penn Line. The new MP36s have/are being tested in Pueblo at 125 as well, but no word on if they'll run those at that speed in revenue service.

Rafi

I read on another site that the Kawasaki's had been limited to 110 for unknown reasons, is this not true? I only go as far as Odenton, so I don't catch the express ride to BWI where 125 is/was achieved.

 

[Rafi]

I read on another site that the Kawasaki's had been limited to 110 for unknown reasons, is this not true? I only go as far as Odenton, so I don't catch the express ride to BWI where 125 is/was achieved.

Nope, the Kawasakis are rated up to 125 and hit that speed between Bowie and Odenton and between Martins and Perryville on the express runs. I'm lucky enough to be the chair of the MARC Riders Advisory Council, so I get to bug the MTA guys with these sorts of questions (which is how I found out the MP36s were being tested in Pueblo). Not sure if the Kawasakis were ever test run at 135 or not, but I'll ask.

Rafi

 

[Ryan]

I read on another site that the Kawasaki's had been limited to 110 for unknown reasons, is this not true? I only go as far as Odenton, so I don't catch the express ride to BWI where 125 is/was achieved.

Nope, the Kawasakis are rated up to 125 and hit that speed between Bowie and Odenton and between Martins and Perryville on the express runs. I'm lucky enough to be the chair of the MARC Riders Advisory Council, so I get to bug the MTA guys with these sorts of questions (which is how I found out the MP36s were being tested in Pueblo). Not sure if the Kawasakis were ever test run at 135 or not, but I'll ask.

Rafi

Thanks for the info, Rafi (and congrats on the chairmanship) - here's the link to the discussion that led me to believe that they were now limited to 110:

http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.p...tart=60#p628141

While I've got your ear, when are we gonna see the MP's? (and apologies to the others for turning this into MARC-chat)

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Well if Amtrak were smart, and the money comes quickly enough, they should just piggyback on NJT's order for ALP46's. No need for lead time, design, or anything else. The locos are already well tested by NJT, and they are currently still rolling off the production line. They'd probably cost less too, than starting with something new.

I doubt they can, let alone if they will. As you should well know, Alan, the ALP-46s are, as someone mentioned, basically Daimler-Benz/Ad-Tranz Class 101s, and built completely in Germany, just as the ASEA Brown Bovari ALP-44s were built entirely in Sweden. I can't imagine why the ALP-46As would be manufactured here- I'm pretty sure they won't be. Soooo I dunno if Amtrak could buy a German engine. Now, perhaps they could do what they did with the AEM-7s- take the basic design and build it here, since the AEM-7s, while being a collaboration between Budd and EMD, were also basically ABBs.

 

[jis]

I doubt they can, let alone if they will. As you should well know, Alan, the ALP-46s are, as someone mentioned, basically Daimler-Benz/Ad-Tranz Class 101s, and built completely in Germany, just as the ASEA Brown Bovari ALP-44s were built entirely in Sweden. I can't imagine why the ALP-46As would be manufactured here- I'm pretty sure they won't be. Soooo I dunno if Amtrak could buy a German engine. Now, perhaps they could do what they did with the AEM-7s- take the basic design and build it here, since the AEM-7s, while being a collaboration between Budd and EMD, were also basically ABBs.

GML, you are probably right. They will have to come up with some scheme to meet the letter of the "built in USA" law and that will add a year or two to delivery time and another $4million to the unit price, or some such.

AFAIK the ALP-46As are being manufactured in some combination of Germany (Kassel) and Poland. There is no federal fund involved in NJT's purchase of those units, again AFAIK.

The total market in the US is so small that it probably does not pay to do what India and China does, which is to get the companies to come and set up shop locally. Afterall they know that once they are selected they are in for at least a thousand units and for some stuff like coaches maybe upward of 5000 units and maybe as high as 10000 units or more. E.g. India produces some 500 electric locomotives each year (mostly under license from Bombardier and some local derivative development), and another over 500 or so diesel electric engines (mostly under license from EMD these days, but some of the old ALCO derivatives are possibly still being manufactured). No wonder they get dirt cheap per unit prices and also get most if not all of the manufacturing to take place locally after about the first 20 to 40 untis.

 

[Rafi]

Thanks for the info, Rafi (and congrats on the chairmanship) - here's the link to the discussion that led me to believe that they were now limited to 110:http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.p...tart=60#p628141

While I've got your ear, when are we gonna see the MP's? (and apologies to the others for turning this into MARC-chat)

Shoot, I should head over to the railroad.net forums more often. Well, if those guys know what they're talking about, it sounds like while the Kawasakis are rated for 125, Amtrak may be imposing a speed restriction. I'll ask my friends over at the MTA for a clarification to see what's up.

The first two MP36's should be in DC in about 2 weeks; we're slated to take a ride on some of the test runs on all three lines shortly after that, and hopefully they'll be running revenue service in about 3-4 weeks from now!

Rafi