What would you add?

[jis]

In any case there isn't any fast line from Cincinnati to Pittsburgh. There are lines that are even slower than BBRR which now is a very decent progressively more welded rail 50-60mph railroad.

 

[Philly Amtrak Fan]

In any case there isn't any fast line from Cincinnati to Pittsburgh. There are lines that are even slower than BBRR which now is a very decent progressively more welded rail 50-60mph railroad.

Well technically it doesn't have to go faster in terms of mph if the route itself is shorter in terms of miles. If the train travels twice as slow but the route is half the distance it breaks even in terms of total time which is really what matters.

 

[jebr]

Okay, then what line are we using CIN - PGH that's fast enough to make it the same speed or faster than the Cardinal?

 

[Ryan]

I don't expect Amtrak to make a profit but ridership & revenue do matter to me.

As they do to me. Right after "provide service to the American people". All of them. Not taking train service away from a few million of them to help self-entitled complainers to increase their already plentiful options.

Taking the Cardinal daily would help both ridership and revenue, and the improvements (in progress) will also make your one seat ride to CHI faster. It's something that you should be supporting, if you didn't hold people that live in other places in such disdain.

The 3 day argument is an excuse because if there was enough demand for a daily Cardinal it would have been done 10-20 years ago.

10-20 years ago, passenger rail was in the crapper, nothing was getting improved or expanded. Now, plans to do exactly that are being executed.

 

[Philly Amtrak Fan]

I don't expect Amtrak to make a profit but ridership & revenue do matter to me.

As they do to me. Right after "provide service to the American people". All of them. Not taking train service away from a few million of them to help self-entitled complainers to increase their already plentiful options.

Taking the Cardinal daily would help both ridership and revenue, and the improvements (in progress) will also make your one seat ride to CHI faster. It's something that you should be supporting, if you didn't hold people that live in other places in such disdain.

The 3 day argument is an excuse because if there was enough demand for a daily Cardinal it would have been done 10-20 years ago.

10-20 years ago, passenger rail was in the crapper, nothing was getting improved or expanded. Now, plans to do exactly that are being executed.

Same slow route now seven days a week! Whoopie!

So my plentiful options to Chicago are have to change trains and possibly miss a connection (which by the way did happen the last time) or spend 25 hours on a train? Unacceptable.

Let me know next time you miss a connection. And even after missing it, I still got in quicker than the Cardinal.

CHI-WAS: 17 hr 25 min

CHI-NYP: 19 hr 53 min

CHI-BOS: 21 hr 31 min

CHI-PHL: 25 hr 41 min (2004 Three Rivers: 18 hr 45 min, 10pm CT to 5:45pm ET, timetables.org)

Why cancel a faster train and keep a slower train back in 1995 and 2005? Why cancel a train which had more passengers and revenue and keep one with fewer?Because of White Sulphur Springs?

 

[Bob Dylan]

Its called Politics Philly!

Check out Amtrak's History since D-Day, you might be amazed by most of the stuff that has occured, and it was all because of the real Masters of Amtrak, Elected Officials!

 

[Philly Amtrak Fan]

OK, would you support my proposal to make the LSL from CHI to BOS only and bring back the TR?

CHI to NYP via LSL 2015: 9:30pm to 6:23pm

CHI to NYP via TR 2004: 10:00pm to 7:28pm

 

[CCC1007]

OK, would you support my proposal to make the LSL from CHI to BOS only and bring back the TR?

CHI to NYP via LSL 2015: 9:30pm to 6:23pm

CHI to NYP via TR 2004: 10:00pm to 7:28pm

no I would not, as that is not really freeing up enough equipment to run either properly.

 

[Ryan]

Taking the Cardinal daily would help both ridership and revenue, and the improvements (in progress) will also make your one seat ride to CHI faster. It's something that you should be supporting, if you didn't hold people that live in other places in such disdain.

Same slow route now seven days a week! Whoopie!

Emboldened for your reading comprehension pleasure.

 

[Philly Amtrak Fan]

Taking the Cardinal daily would help both ridership and revenue, and the improvements (in progress) will also make your one seat ride to CHI faster. It's something that you should be supporting, if you didn't hold people that live in other places in such disdain.

Same slow route now seven days a week! Whoopie!

Emboldened for your reading comprehension pleasure.

And what would those improvements be?

CHI-PHL: 25 hr 41 min (2004 Three Rivers: 18 hr 45 min, 10pm CT to 5:45pm ET, timetables.org)

So will the Cardinal get from CHI to PHL anywhere close to 18:45? Otherwise, not acceptable.

 

[Ryan]

Unfortunately (for you, fortunately for the rest of us that aren't selfish little kids), what's acceptable to you doesn't really matter.

 

[Philly Amtrak Fan]

Unfortunately (for you, fortunately for the rest of us that aren't selfish little kids), what's acceptable to you doesn't really matter.

You said the improvements would make my trip faster (and bolded it). How will it?

 

[Philly Amtrak Fan]

Unfortunately (for you, fortunately for the rest of us that aren't selfish little kids), what's acceptable to you doesn't really matter.

Yeah I'm selfish that I want something I had 11 years ago before they took it away and something I had 21 years ago before they took it away.

 

[jebr]

What route is available from CIN - PGH that has better population centers than along the current route (which does include places like Charleston, WV, metropolitan population 224,743) that would also be faster (in terms of total time traveled) between CIN - PHL than the current route, without some major capital expenditures to improve the route?

A "missed connection" from WAS - PHL isn't really that major of an issue, in my opinion. Trains run up the corridor every hour or two, and an on-time Capitol Limited has a two hour layover anyways. The transfer also takes place at Washington Union Station, which is a pretty decent station to transfer at or spend a little bit of time at. Asking the people of Charleston, WV to have a three-hour drive to their nearest train station (even Columbus, OH is 2 hours and 41 minutes, if it was rerouted, and the Connellsville, PA station on the Capitol Limited is over three hours) just so you can save a pretty convenient transfer seems like an extremely poor trade.

 

[Ryan]

Unfortunately (for you, fortunately for the rest of us that aren't selfish little kids), what's acceptable to you doesn't really matter.

You said the improvements would make my trip faster (and bolded it). How will it?

Improved capacity means less sitting and waiting means a faster trip. Not rocket surgery.

Yeah I'm selfish

I'm glad we've cleared that up. Since you can't use reason to get someone out of a position that they didn't reason themselves into, it's obvious that this conversation is futile. I'm out, keep on tilting at those windmills, dude.

 

[Philly Amtrak Fan]

What route is available from CIN - PGH that has better population centers than along the current route (which does include places like Charleston, WV, metropolitan population 224,743) that would also be faster (in terms of total time traveled) between CIN - PHL than the current route, without some major capital expenditures to improve the route?

A "missed connection" from WAS - PHL isn't really that major of an issue, in my opinion. Trains run up the corridor every hour or two, and an on-time Capitol Limited has a two hour layover anyways. The transfer also takes place at Washington Union Station, which is a pretty decent station to transfer at or spend a little bit of time at. Asking the people of Charleston, WV to have a three-hour drive to their nearest train station (even Columbus, OH is 2 hours and 41 minutes, if it was rerouted, and the Connellsville, PA station on the Capitol Limited is over three hours) just so you can save a pretty convenient transfer seems like an extremely poor trade.

If it hasn't happened to you then you can't say it's not that major of an issue. That two hour layover became an almost five hour layover. And you have to wait in line at a busy Union Station with several other passengers who had to change their plans too and all the other regular passengers and if you can't get there in time it becomes six hours. It took over 24 hours to get to a destination that used to take 19.

 

[jebr]

But you still got there. Passengers along the Cardinal route, if that was removed, would have no rail option (and, in the case of Charleston, WV, have a minimum three hour drive or bus ride, assuming there's a direct bus route, to Amtrak.)

I'm curious as to how that particular rebooking happened (timetable, transfers, etc.) I'm surprised that there would be a five-hour layover, but not surprised that a delay would result in it becoming 24 hours from CHI - PHL. I will admit I've never been rebooked on Amtrak, but a five-hour delay is not out of the norm here, and I've been on trains that are close to ten hours delayed. Considering most other misconnects result in an overnight, an extra couple hours in WAS seems rather minor by comparison.

EDIT: I still don't see how we're keeping service to Cincinnati, so unless you're proposing removing Cincinnati service to restore a direct CHI - Pennsylvania train (except for Pittsburgh and neighboring towns, which have the Capitol Limited) or have a proposal for a good alternate route from CIN to the east, this discussion is rather moot.

 

[Philly Amtrak Fan]

OK can we all agree that Amtrak's priority should be the Capitol/Pennsylvanian through car connection over expanding the Cardinal? Nothing would be taken away and instead of running a car an additional 4 times a week for over 24 hours each you would have two trains that run now. It's one thing to take service away from Charleston but if you would rather expand service to them and the rest of WV than give Eastern PA (not just Philly, Harrisburg, Lancaster, and the rest of PA east of Pittsburgh) the direct train we had then you really hate us. Hate me all you want but not everyone in these areas are like me and a good many of us (me included) might actually ride this train and contribute money to the Amtrak system. We know Amtrak thinks it's a good idea as the PIP's are full of ideas that they said wouldn't work (at least short term). So give us what we had back and as long as we have it, I will leave the Cardinal alone. But if they spend their extra money on the Cardinal and do nothing to help CHI-PA still leave Eastern PA in the dark (literally for those East of PA who HAVE to connect in the middle of the night in PGH), then I would be justified in being angry.

Has no one seen Horseshoe Curve? I remember that more than any scenery on the LSL or CL. I thought some of you enjoy the scenery of trains.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

What route is available from CIN - PGH that has better population centers than along the current route (which does include places like Charleston, WV, metropolitan population 224,743) that would also be faster (in terms of total time traveled) between CIN - PHL than the current route, without some major capital expenditures to improve the route?

A "missed connection" from WAS - PHL isn't really that major of an issue, in my opinion. Trains run up the corridor every hour or two, and an on-time Capitol Limited has a two hour layover anyways. The transfer also takes place at Washington Union Station, which is a pretty decent station to transfer at or spend a little bit of time at. Asking the people of Charleston, WV to have a three-hour drive to their nearest train station (even Columbus, OH is 2 hours and 41 minutes, if it was rerouted, and the Connellsville, PA station on the Capitol Limited is over three hours) just so you can save a pretty convenient transfer seems like an extremely poor trade.

If it hasn't happened to you then you can't say it's not that major of an issue. That two hour layover became an almost five hour layover. And you have to wait in line at a busy Union Station with several other passengers who had to change their plans too and all the other regular passengers and if you can't get there in time it becomes six hours. It took over 24 hours to get to a destination that used to take 19.

I have missed connections in WAS. No big deal. I even had to wait an additional hour for the next NER because all trains were not running due to the tragic accident in Philly.
Too bad you can't see me rubbing my thumb and finger together. (World's smallest violin).

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Has no one seen Horseshoe Curve? I remember that more than any scenery on the LSL or CL. I thought some of you enjoy the scenery of trains.

Most people ride trains to get from point A to point B. They don't care so much about the scenery.

 

[keelhauled]

OK can we all agree that Amtrak's priority should be the Capitol/Pennsylvanian through car connection over expanding the Cardinal?

Why can't both happen? Why is everything so either/or with you?

 

[Bob Dylan]

Philly: in case you missed it, I posted a tribute to the Late and Great Broadway Ltd. that made it's last runs 20 years ago today!

Also, mentioning bad calling times isn't the best analogy you could use, lots of large cities besides Pittsburgh have terrible calling times, few trains or even None! ( see Cleveland, San Antonio, Salt Lake City, Indianapolis,Cincinnati,Spokane,Omaha,oHouston, Phoenix etc.)

Its great to have ideas and want more Trains, we all have a dream list but as so many of us have said, cutting Trains to start others is a terrible idea!

"Show me the money!" is still the keystone to more Rail service! ( Pennsylvania reference )!

 

[Philly Amtrak Fan]

OK can we all agree that Amtrak's priority should be the Capitol/Pennsylvanian through car connection over expanding the Cardinal?

Why can't both happen? Why is everything so either/or with you?

Cause whenever something needs to be cut it's always CHI-PHL.

 

[jebr]

Yep. No other routes have been cut other than CHI - PHL ones.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Just off hand the Amtrak trains that have been cut or "suspended" that I've ridden include, but are not limited too, The Interamerican,The Lone Star,the Louisville Cardinal,the International Ltd.,the Desert Wind,the Pioneer and the Sunset East.

None of these Trains ran in Pennsylvania.