What reason do you hear from people for not riding Amtrak

[cirdan]

A guy I sat next to on the Pennsylvanian once told me he always drove but this was his first time on the train. He was taking the train because of the price of gas.

Then for the rest of the trip he was moaning and every five minutes he told me how boring it was. He actually even said this while we were going around Horseshoe Curve.

Maybe there ought to be a FAQ for first time travellers explaining basics to them, such as bring some form of entertainment (or work) in case you get tired of looking out the window.

 

[dlagrua]

When I speak to people about of LD train trips the conversation invariably comes down to "its too dam slow". Just goes to show the high level of anxiety that exists in todays society. Everyone is in a hurry! They've got to have everything handed to them fast or else!

The only route that is faster than air travel is the Acela from NYP to WAS and its no surprise that its heavily used.

While we would never travel anywhere by plane and have to be exposed to the filthy, congested, unhealthy atmosphere and a security process that reduces passengers to the level of an animal; it seems that the "airline sheep" have no problem with the DSM *****. I am convinced that if all airline passengers were required to strip completely naked there would still be no outcry. This is a clear illustration of how American society has been dummed down into accepting the tyrannical propaganda-lie down play dead and let government do anything that they want to you!

 

[PaulM]

"I've always wanted to do that. It seems like it would be fun."

This is the one I always get.

And I think the reason they don't follow up is a lack of imagination. You know the old wives' tale about men not asking directions. Try asking directions at a gas station/convenience store these days. You could be inquiring about something only a block away; but it it isn't on their direct route they take every day, they wouldn't know about it because they aren't curious enough to learn about their surroundings. Same with trains.

 

[BCL]

Why does anyone really need to be talked into using Amtrak as transportation?

I certainly enjoy talking about rail transportation, but I'm frankly not looking to be an advocate.

 

[slh14]

The reasons I hear most are price and inconvenience. Even my friends who can afford a roomette are turned off by the length of trip/schedule. I can't seem to convince them even after telling them that nobody is going to demand a machine take a naked picture of them or a stranger touch their genitals as a condition to travel. They just don't care. Convenience trumps all, including dignity and morals.

 

[ericr]

Then for the rest of the trip he was moaning and every five minutes he told me how boring it was. He actually even said this while we were going around Horseshoe Curve.

Ugh, I've driven to Pittsburgh from Central Jersey before. I thought the opposite was true, driving was so boring, you can't even really look around, just staring at the road. At least on the train, I can actually look around, nap, or read.

Most of the complains I've heard were time and cost (and these were from someone who called themselves a railfan).

 

[JayPea]

Most I talk to have no idea that Amtrak even runs anywhere near here. They're amazed when I tell them Amtrak stops in Spokane, the nearest stop to my location. For those who do know of Amtrak's existance, the time factor is the reason most commonly given. That and the boarding/departure times in Spokane are less than ideal. With my mom, another reason pops up. She'd like to try the train, but her arthritic back and hip are such that she can't sleep in a bed. She has to sleep sitting in a recliner, and she won't do coach. I've also heard the "It's boring/no scenery" argument as well.

 

[guest]

When I speak to people about of LD train trips the conversation invariably comes down to "its too dam slow". Just goes to show the high level of anxiety that exists in todays society. Everyone is in a hurry! They've got to have everything handed to them fast or else!The only route that is faster than air travel is the Acela from NYP to WAS and its no surprise that its heavily used.

While we would never travel anywhere by plane and have to be exposed to the filthy, congested, unhealthy atmosphere and a security process that reduces passengers to the level of an animal; it seems that the "airline sheep" have no problem with the DSM *****. I am convinced that if all airline passengers were required to strip completely naked there would still be no outcry. This is a clear illustration of how American society has been dummed down into accepting the tyrannical propaganda-lie down play dead and let government do anything that they want to you!

Hey, so how do you really feel about flying?

 

[jebr]

The biggest one - it takes too long. The other one is that it doesn't go where they want to go.

Both are valid points, and they're ones Amtrak has to overcome. I can (and just did, today) fly from MSP to BOI in about 5 hours. Add two additional hours for stuff on either end and that's still 7 hours. The train takes about two days, or 48 hours. It also involves a 10 hour bus ride and a middle-of-the-night transfer in Spokane. (Pretty much anywhere else west that's not on the coast or on the EB line is impossible to get to without an overnight layover in Chicago.) It's also no cheaper than a SWA fare for the same points - granted, you can't get a refund of your fare on SWA's cheapest fare, but you can get credit for up to a year after you purchased your ticket.

As much as the security process is annoying and generally worthless, it's not a horrible process. A lot of it is just remembering all the byzane rules of what can be carried on and what has to be checked.

 

[RRUserious]

"I hear they're always late"
The complete UP meltdown on Starlight timekeeping a few years ago, when being only 4 hours was an exceptionally good day, is still echoing. I hear "Well, my friend so-and-so took Amtrak a few years ago and they were 10 hours late..." horror stories all the time.

"Always" is probably an exaggeration. But my trip to Toronto via Buffalo took 24 hours too long. That to me would be unacceptable to virtually the entire traveling public. Nasty surprise for anyone thinking modes of travel were anywhere close to competitive. The aftermath taught me all sorts of things the general public doesn't know. Amtrak certainly doesn't disclose this sort of stuff. Train fans pooh-pooh it. So the only hope for the public is the critics who neither hate nor love trains. Amtrak is a "special way to go". It requires you not to care if an extra day is thrown into your schedule. That's the degree of flexibility you have to accept. And for all but a small segment of the trips people take, that isn't acceptable.

 

[the_traveler]

"I hear they're always late"

The complete UP meltdown on Starlight timekeeping a few years ago, when being only 4 hours was an exceptionally good day, is still echoing. I hear "Well, my friend so-and-so took Amtrak a few years ago and they were 10 hours late..." horror stories all the time.

"Always" is probably an exaggeration. But my trip to Toronto via Buffalo took 24 hours too long. That to me would be unacceptable to virtually the entire traveling public. Nasty surprise for anyone thinking modes of travel were anywhere close to competitive. The aftermath taught me all sorts of things the general public doesn't know. Amtrak certainly doesn't disclose this sort of stuff. Train fans pooh-pooh it. So the only hope for the public is the critics who neither hate nor love trains. Amtrak is a "special way to go". It requires you not to care if an extra day is thrown into your schedule. That's the degree of flexibility you have to accept. And for all but a small segment of the trips people take, that isn't acceptable.

Back in the days when I was dumb, I had a flight from Providence to Detroit (normally 2+ hours) that took over 8 hours. I also had a flight from Chicago to Providence (a 3 hour flight) where I saw a movie (on the plane's screen), ate dinner (this was in the old days when they still served meals), saw most of a 2nd movie and drank too much. And this was all on the ground before we even left O'Hare!
So are you saying that these are acceptable because they are a plane and not a train? A 6 hour delay on a 2 hour flight old be like taking a train from STL to FTW and being 2 days late! So why is one "bad" and one "OK"?

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

Any more people seem to have associated the getting there portion of a trip to be the terror part of the trip. And many I talk to about rail travel think I'm goofy as all can be when I try to explain the rail part of a vacation is often the BEST part of the vacation.

 

[Shortline]

Both are bad, but one is more common than the other, at least in my experience. While the media does like to hype ultra late planes, my experience has been the train is rediculously more late, than any flight I've ever taken. The only overnight delay I have ever had while flying, is an overnight in Chicago, when a blizzard got me stuck en-route to Kalamazoo MI. The trains were stopped too. In the last 5 years, only diverted once, to Cleveland en-route to Detroit, and we had a 2 hour weather hold in the terminal. Got where I needed to go right after the weather cleared. Maybe I've been lucky, but, I have flown 60,000-80,000 miles every year for the past 6 years. Compare that to my rail experience....Taken the train Long Distance maybe a dozen times total, give or take. 2 trains have been cancelled competely (Coast Starlight, honeymoon trip SEA-LAX) 1 was 18 hours late requiring me to book a last minute walk up airfare (Empire Builder MOT-CHI), 1 trip was so late arriving I ended up flying anyway and a Texas Eagle Bustitution scheduled a week from departure. (I Declined, again, last minute air fare). Fact is, I can much more reliably, fly faster, cheaper, and more reliably than take the train, based on my own experience. I haven't had a lost bag from an airline in the last 6 years, (Never lost one on Amtrak either, but I can't even CHECK a bag from OKC....) and as a frequent flyer, I'm relatively immune to a lot of the complaints of flying. Delays are never truly acceptable. I just know, from my own experience, I have a much greater chance of actually getting where I need to go, around the time I need to get there, when I fly. I have learned to NEVER take the train when I NEED to be somewhere. And, I like to take the train. But a roughly 25% failure rate....THAT's not something that should be acceptable.

 

[JayPea]

My experiences in the flying vs. taking Amtrak have been the opposite of Shortline's. One time I've had a train been cancelled, that the CZ from Chicago to Sacramento, but in that case, I and my traveling companions were rerouted on the SWC to Los Angeles, albeit by coach, then up to Sacramento and eventually Seattle on the CS, by bedroom. The experience of having a bedroom for the entire length of the CS northbound from LA almost but not quite balanced out the negatives* of traveling Chicago-LA in coach. The only time I was ever really late was a couple of years ago on the EB when traveling to Seattle from Spokane, on the next-to-last train that was able to get through from Chicago before being shut down for the six or seven weeks, whatever it was. In that instance we left Spokane 5 1/2 hrs. late and got into Seattle about 5 1/4 hours late. It was actually an advantage for me, as the only connection I had to make was with the pillow in my hotel room, and getting there that late solved the problem of what to do with my luggage at the hotel, as I would have gotten there before check-in time. This way I was able to get checked in right away.

On the other hand while flying, I have had three different flights canceled, all while flying back to Spokane from Champaign-Urbana. Two were weather-related (the trains ran in both instances and the other due to mechanical issues. It didn't matter much except for one instance, when I was a couple of days late reporting to my second quarter of college, and I missed a mandatory class for those two days. Ordinarily I would have been booted from that class and would have had to take it the next quarter but the powers-that-be-granted an exception for exceptional circumstances. And one time, while flying from Bloomington to Spokane, I missed a connection in Minneapolis due to 1) a tight connection to begin with 2) the flight leaving Bloomington almost 45 minutes late 3) the flight losing more time at a stopover at the Quad-Cities airport and 4) having to fly way out around a thunderstorm near Minneapolis. We (my mom, nephew and I) just did miss being able to board the Spokane-bound plane at Minneapolis, and we had to settle for a flight to Seattle, then to Spokane. Problem was the flight to Seattle got in too late to catch a connecting flight to Spokane so we had to spend the night sleeping in Sea-Tac, a process rendered nearly impossible by a guy sleeping near us who was grinding his teeth in his sleep. To top it all off, once I finally got back to Spokane the next morning, I found my car in the airport parking lot had a flat tire. :angry:

And a couple of times I didn't get luggage when I was supposed to, though in both cases it showed up the next day. One time involved making a two-hour round trip to the Spokane airport, and the second time it was delivered right to my mom's front porch from the airport overnight., Unfortunately, it poured down rain that night and we found our luggage soaked, but at least we got it. And I've never had one bit of problem with luggage on Amtrak, simply because I've never checked luggage on it.

Having rambled on and on about my airliner woes :lol: I will say that if I have to be somewhere, I will fly. I have only X amount of vacation time available and I simply don't have time to take the train whenever I want to go someplace. I much prefer Amtak but for me it simply isn't practical or realistic in many cases. And I don't give a raw rat's rectum whether non-flyers like it or not. h34r: 'Tis no one's business but my own when, whether, or where I fly.

*Disclaimer: the negatives had to do with the COMFORT of traveling coach that distance and NOT with the coach passengers themselves.

 

[Shortline]

Hey, I'm looking on the bright side-When we leave on vacation in a couple weeks, I have an estimated 75% chance of it going as planned! And if not, I can always burn FF miles and get there! h34r:

 

[Texan Eagle]

When I speak to people about of LD train trips the conversation invariably comes down to "its too dam slow". Just goes to show the high level of anxiety that exists in todays society. Everyone is in a hurry! They've got to have everything handed to them fast or else!
While we would never travel anywhere by plane and have to be exposed to the filthy, congested, unhealthy atmosphere and a security process that reduces passengers to the level of an animal; it seems that the "airline sheep" have no problem with the DSM *****. I am convinced that if all airline passengers were required to strip completely naked there would still be no outcry. This is a clear illustration of how American society has been dummed down into accepting the tyrannical propaganda-lie down play dead and let government do anything that they want to you!

Let me guess, you are retired?

You know why people are in a hurry? Not because they have high anxiety, but because they have jobs to do and schools to attend. Not everyone has the privilege of taking long vacations and spend 2 days to travel from city A to B and then another two days to travel back to A. I absolutely love taking Amtrak, but still I end up taking flights for 99% of my travel (when I am not driving). Amtrak trips work only as "land cruise" and needs to be planned as an independent excursion, not as a means of transport to reach somewhere.

And about your observation about air travel, let me guess, you have not actually traveled by a plane in a long time and this is just armchair preaching? I have taken more than 50 flights from airports across USA in the last 3 years, and not even once have I had to "strip naked", nor did I ever feel i was being treated like an animal. Sure TSA is a mild annoyance, but that's about it and takes 30 seconds to go through the drill. No big deal, really.

 

[PA Traveler]

Most people I talk to just have no real idea where Amtrak goes. They are always surprised when we talk about our trips.

Those that do seem to understand that Amtrak exists are hesitant about things like the food, the idea of a sleeping car, and seem to think they never run on time. I'll admit I've had plenty of late trains (and mostly in the middle of the night), but I just take it in stride (which can be a little tougher at 4 AM). I think the only way you can enjoy riding on Amtrak is by learning to take things in stride and taking the good with the bad.

 

[guest]

Most people I talk to just have no real idea where Amtrak goes. They are always surprised when we talk about our trips.
Those that do seem to understand that Amtrak exists are hesitant about things like the food, the idea of a sleeping car, and seem to think they never run on time. I'll admit I've had plenty of late trains (and mostly in the middle of the night), but I just take it in stride (which can be a little tougher at 4 AM). I think the only way you can enjoy riding on Amtrak is by learning to take things in stride and taking the good with the bad.

and that's often hard to do--take the good with the bad--when you are paying premium prices for sleepers. On a cruise, people would be outraged if things went sour as often as they do on Amtrak. Too many people on this forum don't have to pay the sleeper costs because they rack up points with an AGR card. The public is different; they demand a high level of quality if they are to pay the hundreds of dollars in sleeper fares.

 

[cirdan]

I don't live in the USA. I live in Switzerland so I all my Amtrak travel is vacation stuff.

I have various friends living in various parts of the US, and I try to plan my vacation as a long Amtrak trip whose itinery permits me to visist as many of these friends as possible.

One of these friends recently told me "every time you come to see me, you come by train. I'd like to take a train once too".

I said "well, why don't you. You have a 20 minute drive from your house to the Amtrak station and there is a broad variety of places you could go to. Just look at the Amtrak map and and website and work it out. It's not difficult".

He said "No, I don't want to do it alone. Will you come with me?"

I think this shows there are many people out there who would like to try but don't know how to start somehow. Maybe we should all take our friends on train trips sometimes.

 

[Ziv]

"Trains are too slow and cost too much" is what I hear. And in some ways, I can't say that they are wrong.

Most Amtrak long distance routes average 50-60 mph and cost 3 or 4 times what it would cost to cover the same territory in a car. At 30 mpg and 70 mph, a car is an amazingly fast, flexible and inexpensive way to travel up 400 miles or so. I love train travel, but the lack of flexibility on the other end, combined with the time it takes to travel and the cost means that I generally fly long distance and drive short and medium distance.

I want to spend a week in Bar Harbor, but I want to be able to see the harbors and lakes, so I drive. I go on scuba diving trips to Key Largo and Morehead City, and I fly and drive, respectively. I need to get home to Montana for a week to see my Mom, so I fly. All four of my most recent trips just wouldn't work as well if I travelled using Amtrak, mainly due to the fact that Amtrak is slower than a car and as expensive as flying.

6 or 7 years ago, I thought that Positive Train Control would have lifted the speed for most Amtrak trips by 10 mph by now. It is a pity that didn't happen, but given the reality of what the freight railroads are like, I just don't think any LD routes are going to be averaging more than 60 mph outside the NEC. We don't need HSR in the short to medium term, we need InterCity speeds like we see in Europe where the regular trains do 125 mph. Once our LD trains are averaging 80-90 mph and have stretches where they are doing 110-125 mph, trains will be a better option for more travelers. But with freight trains at their current speeds, how can that happen?

 

[JoeBas]

And about your observation about air travel, let me guess, you have not actually traveled by a plane in a long time and this is just armchair preaching? I have taken more than 50 flights from airports across USA in the last 3 years, and not even once have I had to "strip naked", nor did I ever feel i was being treated like an animal. Sure TSA is a mild annoyance, but that's about it and takes 30 seconds to go through the drill. No big deal, really.

Just an observation - Until you've been coordially invited to take a visit to the private backroom for a resolution, you really don't know what people are complaining about.

 

[sitzplatz17]

When I speak to people about of LD train trips the conversation invariably comes down to "its too dam slow". Just goes to show the high level of anxiety that exists in todays society. Everyone is in a hurry! They've got to have everything handed to them fast or else!
While we would never travel anywhere by plane and have to be exposed to the filthy, congested, unhealthy atmosphere and a security process that reduces passengers to the level of an animal; it seems that the "airline sheep" have no problem with the DSM *****. I am convinced that if all airline passengers were required to strip completely naked there would still be no outcry. This is a clear illustration of how American society has been dummed down into accepting the tyrannical propaganda-lie down play dead and let government do anything that they want to you!

Let me guess, you are retired?

You know why people are in a hurry? Not because they have high anxiety, but because they have jobs to do and schools to attend. Not everyone has the privilege of taking long vacations and spend 2 days to travel from city A to B and then another two days to travel back to A. I absolutely love taking Amtrak, but still I end up taking flights for 99% of my travel (when I am not driving). Amtrak trips work only as "land cruise" and needs to be planned as an independent excursion, not as a means of transport to reach somewhere.

And about your observation about air travel, let me guess, you have not actually traveled by a plane in a long time and this is just armchair preaching? I have taken more than 50 flights from airports across USA in the last 3 years, and not even once have I had to "strip naked", nor did I ever feel i was being treated like an animal. Sure TSA is a mild annoyance, but that's about it and takes 30 seconds to go through the drill. No big deal, really.

I wholeheartedly agree.

I fly at least once a month and the only annoying part about the TSA is some of the lines. But you'll have to stand in line no matter what at an airport, that's not new with the advent of increased screening.

Additionally TSA has been pretty pro-active in working with the airlines to expedite screening processes for frequent fliers and loosening restrictions on the elderly an the young.

Are they perfect? By no means at all, and flying is a very frustrating and taxing experience at times. But the speed is unrivaled except in here in the Northeast.

That said, where I can I've always preferred Amtrak over flying. Whenever i head up to NYC these days I exclusively take the train. It easily beats driving, bus, and most of the time flying.

For longer distances I've been able to use Amtrak twice, once was down to Orlando with the Auto Train. We had a week long conference and I knew I'd need a car. Wasn't hard to convince the company that I'd be able to not only haul a bunch of conference materials with me at no cost, but that they wouldn't have to bother with a rental car! All I had to do was pay for my sleeper accommodations.

So there are some long distance trips that can effectively be used, especially ones overnight. But they are few and far between.

 

[Ryan]

Additionally TSA has been pretty pro-active in working with the airlines to expedite screening processes for frequent fliers and loosening restrictions on the elderly an the young.

And therein we get to the crux of my issues with the TSA. If the security they provided was actually doing anything useful, it'd be utterly stupid to blow holes in it by letting certain sympathetic groups through with less than a full screening every time.

Run properly, I'd be OK with airport screening. Run by the TSA, it's a joke that costs millions of dollars in direct costs, millions of dollars in lost time, provides a "soft target" for terrorists to strike (imagine 10 Boston marathon type bombs going off in the security screening lines at 10 different US airports on a heavy travel day), and does precious little to keep actual threats off of the plane.

 

[guest]

And how exactly do you know that the TSA has doing nothing to keep explosives and terrorists off of planes? Have you done a study of TSA? Are you privy to information about potential incidents? Your points about TSA needing to be more efficient and cost-effective are, to me, fatally flawed because you go on with no specifics to castigate TSA for its very existence.

I believe you have more than once harshly criticized posts complaining about Amtrak because people begin with a specific issue and then go on to generalize about the entire Amtrak system being flawed. You are guilty of the same thing regarding TSA.

 

[Michael]

And how exactly do you know that the TSA has doing nothing to keep explosives and terrorists off of planes? Have you done a study of TSA? Are you privy to information about potential incidents? Your points about TSA needing to be more efficient and cost-effective are, to me, fatally flawed because you go on with no specifics to castigate TSA for its very existence.
I believe you have more than once harshly criticized posts complaining about Amtrak because people begin with a specific issue and then go on to generalize about the entire Amtrak system being flawed. You are guilty of the same thing regarding TSA.

Well I always bring an anti-terrorist rock with me when I fly. It's saved me so far.