What happens at the Albany station when the Lake Shore Limited arrives

[don warner saklad]

a.

What happens at the Albany station when the Lake Shore Limited arrives from the East?...

b.

What happens at the Albany station when the Lake Shore Limited arrives from the West?...

 

[frj1983]

a.What happens at the Albany station when the Lake Shore Limited arrives from the East?...

b.

What happens at the Albany station when the Lake Shore Limited arrives from the West?...

I can't resist:

People get off and people get on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Don, could you be a bit more specific?? What is it you want to know??

 

[AlanB]

b.What happens at the Albany station when the Lake Shore Limited arrives from the West?...

Let's do the easy one first. When the train pulls into Albany from Chicago, typically there is a stub train train(A short train with a cafe car and a couple of coaches) waiting on the track closest to the station building. This train will run to Boston, so all passengers going to Boston must go upstairs into the station and then back down on the other platform to reach the stub train.

Those continuing to NY remain on the train that they arrived on. The two P42 engines are cut off and a P32 AC-DM is added to the head end. That train then continues onto NY Penn Station, while the stub train heads further east to Boston.

a.What happens at the Albany station when the Lake Shore Limited arrives from the East?...

Basically it is just a reverse of the above, but depending on timing those coming from Boston may have an hour or two's wait in Albany. That train is supposed to arrive first and usually does, but not always. When the NY train arrives the P32 is cut off and two P42's are added to the head end. The passengers from Boston are then sent down to the platform, as well as any boarding from Albany. On occasion a Private Varnish car may be added or even still a box car.

Things used to be a lot more complicated back when the Boston section was combined with the NY section, but now the dance is much simpler, even though it's not as convienent for the passengers.

 

[blueman271]

Is Amtrak ever going to give the Boston section its sleeper back, and resume combining the two sections?

 

[AlanB]

Is Amtrak ever going to give the Boston section its sleeper back, and resume combining the two sections?

I'm not aware of any plans to do so, and without money for new single level sleepers I'd think it unlikely that anyone is planning such a return. There simply aren't enough Viewliner's to go around, especially as they age and require more work to keep them on the road.

 

[Superliner Diner]

True, but doesn't the train operate with three Viewliners? If so, all 3 run Chicago-New York. When the train split into New York and Boston sections, New York got 2 Viewliners and the other one went to Boston. Thus the number of sleepers remains the same.

With the demise a few years ago of sleeping cars on the Federal (former Night Owl, former Twilight Shoreliner), and no Boston section of the LSL other than the stub train, the Boston yard does not have to service any Viewliners.

 

[AlanB]

True, but doesn't the train operate with three Viewliners? If so, all 3 run Chicago-New York. When the train split into New York and Boston sections, New York got 2 Viewliners and the other one went to Boston. Thus the number of sleepers remains the same.

Yes and no. During the summer, late spring, and early fall, the LSL does run with three sleepers. During the winter, early spring, and late fall it runs with only two sleepers. The extra sleeper is assigned to Silver service for the snow birds.

With the demise a few years ago of sleeping cars on the Federal (former Night Owl, former Twilight Shoreliner), and no Boston section of the LSL other than the stub train, the Boston yard does not have to service any Viewliners.

I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if that also has something to do with the loss of the sleeper from the Boston section.

 

[battalion51]

I personally do not see a true thru section coming back to the LSL anytime soon. Heck I've heard rumblings from a couple of sources that says they may try to axe 448/449 if the ridership doesn't pick up. They could justify this of course by the fact that there are same day connections to destinations like Boston and Springfield, and towns like Worcester and Framingham could be connected to via MBTA. Really it'd only be the stops between ALB and SPG that would lose service. But as with anything you hear from this company you never know what's specualtion, and what's truth.

 

[Superliner Diner]

Really it'd only be the stops between ALB and SPG that would lose service.

There's only one... Pittsfield.

 

[Mark]

"When the train pulls into Albany from Chicago, typically there is a stub train train(A short train with a cafe car and a couple of coaches) waiting on the track closest to the station building. This train will run to Boston, so all passengers going to Boston must go upstairs into the station and then back down on the other platform to reach the stub train."

"Things used to be a lot more complicated back when the Boston section was combined with the NY section, but now the dance is much simpler, even though it's not as convienent for the passengers."

Not always true- the last two times I went to Boston and back the stub train was literally right across from the LSL- both ways. We exited the sleeper and walked about 75' to our Business Class seats.

M

 

[had8ley]

Really it'd only be the stops between ALB and SPG that would lose service.

There's only one... Pittsfield.

And, at one time, Pittsfield was a flag stop. I believe it's a regular stop now.

 

[had8ley]

"When the train pulls into Albany from Chicago, typically there is a stub train train(A short train with a cafe car and a couple of coaches) waiting on the track closest to the station building. This train will run to Boston, so all passengers going to Boston must go upstairs into the station and then back down on the other platform to reach the stub train."
"Things used to be a lot more complicated back when the Boston section was combined with the NY section, but now the dance is much simpler, even though it's not as convienent for the passengers."

Not always true- the last two times I went to Boston and back the stub train was literally right across from the LSL- both ways. We exited the sleeper and walked about 75' to our Business Class seats.

M

Mark;

That was exactly my experience the last round trip we made on the Boston-Chicago LSL.

 

[don warner saklad]

Thank you AlanB !

What is the etymology of this usage of the term?... stub

 

[AlanB]

"When the train pulls into Albany from Chicago, typically there is a stub train train(A short train with a cafe car and a couple of coaches) waiting on the track closest to the station building. This train will run to Boston, so all passengers going to Boston must go upstairs into the station and then back down on the other platform to reach the stub train."

"Things used to be a lot more complicated back when the Boston section was combined with the NY section, but now the dance is much simpler, even though it's not as convienent for the passengers."

Not always true- the last two times I went to Boston and back the stub train was literally right across from the LSL- both ways. We exited the sleeper and walked about 75' to our Business Class seats.

M

Mark;

That was exactly my experience the last round trip we made on the Boston-Chicago LSL.

You guys have been lucky then, as if I had to guess I'd say that at least 30% to 50% of the time, the stub was not directly across the platform. Since Albany's new station has never been finished, and at this point it is unclear if it ever will be, where the stubby sits depends on just how late the LSL is running, as well as how late/on time the rest of the Empire Service is.

AFAIK things have still not been changed, so only the track closest to the station building can actually directly access the line leading to Boston. The other two tracks require a backup move to reach the line to Boston. So depending on timing, Amtrak often can't afford to tie up tracks with that backup move, and therefore will put the stubby on the track closest to the station. When they do that, one has no choice but to go up to the sky bridge and back down.

Now if they ever build the final track for the station, then this will cease to be an issue. But again, I've not heard of any plans lately to actually build that track. AFAIK, that died along with the Turboliner deal as well as the second main line track between ALB and SDY. Although there is still enough pressure for that second main between ALB - SDY, so that may one day still get built.

 

[Rafi]

AFAIK things have still not been changed, so only the track closest to the station building can actually directly access the line leading to Boston. The other two tracks require a backup move to reach the line to Boston. So depending on timing, Amtrak often can't afford to tie up tracks with that backup move, and therefore will put the stubby on the track closest to the station. When they do that, one has no choice but to go up to the sky bridge and back down.

Alan,

At the risk of throwing a wrench into the gears, here's a picture I took on April 6, 2006 when I was riding eastbound on the LSL to NYP. When we reached Albany, here is where things stood:

Click for image

Notice that the stub train is directly across the platform from the NY-bound train. Guess that means they had to back up? (I can't recall what actually happened)

-Rafi

 

[AlanB]

AFAIK things have still not been changed, so only the track closest to the station building can actually directly access the line leading to Boston. The other two tracks require a backup move to reach the line to Boston. So depending on timing, Amtrak often can't afford to tie up tracks with that backup move, and therefore will put the stubby on the track closest to the station. When they do that, one has no choice but to go up to the sky bridge and back down.

Alan,

At the risk of throwing a wrench into the gears, here's a picture I took on April 6, 2006 when I was riding eastbound on the LSL to NYP. When we reached Albany, here is where things stood:

Click for image

Notice that the stub train is directly across the platform from the NY-bound train. Guess that means they had to back up? (I can't recall what actually happened)

-Rafi

Rafi,

That is exactly what would have needed to happen, a backup move to get the stubby on it's way to Boston. Your picture actually confirms that they haven't changed anything in Albany. If one looks at the picture, the platform to the left of the stub train was designed to be a center island platform. There is even a sign there right on the housing for the escalator announcing that it's location B for main train #4. However as you can see, main track doesn't exist. In fact there is a stop sign sitting in the space for the roadbed.

Now look to the end of that platform and you can see part of a switch hidden by the green canopy because of the angle of your shot. The left fork of that switch, which is just starting to bear left is the line to Pittsfield and eventually Boston. The right leg of that switch sends one down the mainline to NYC.

If a train is on the other platform, where both trains are in your picture, then one of two things must happen before a train can head to Boston. Either they must pull forward onto the mains to NYC, then backup onto the track on the right side of the left platform; or they must back up immediately from where the train is and over a switch that sits behind the train to reach that track on the right side of the left plat and then pull forward to move onto the line to Pittsfield.

Either manuever ties up needed tracks, so anytime all trains arriving/departing Albany aren't precisely on time, you run the risk that the stub train lands on that leftmost platform and passengers have to trek up and down to transfer. That's what happened last June when I was returning from my round the country trip.

Now if funding can ever be found to put in that fourth track, this would cease to be a problem, as the LSL and stubby would always use the leftmost platform, while leaving the two tracks on the right plat available for all Empire service trains. But again, I'm aware of no plans at present to actually build that track. By the way, in addition to the old small station that Amtrak used to use in Albany, the ability to add that fourth track was one of the reasons for building the new station. It's my understanding that a corner of the old station needs to come down, before that fourth track can be built. So that helped to persuade all the parties to build the new station.

 

[Guest_Mark_*]

"When the train pulls into Albany from Chicago, typically there is a stub train train(A short train with a cafe car and a couple of coaches) waiting on the track closest to the station building. This train will run to Boston, so all passengers going to Boston must go upstairs into the station and then back down on the other platform to reach the stub train."

"Things used to be a lot more complicated back when the Boston section was combined with the NY section, but now the dance is much simpler, even though it's not as convienent for the passengers."

Not always true- the last two times I went to Boston and back the stub train was literally right across from the LSL- both ways. We exited the sleeper and walked about 75' to our Business Class seats.

M

Mark;

That was exactly my experience the last round trip we made on the Boston-Chicago LSL.

You guys have been lucky then, as if I had to guess I'd say that at least 30% to 50% of the time, the stub was not directly across the platform. Since Albany's new station has never been finished, and at this point it is unclear if it ever will be, where the stubby sits depends on just how late the LSL is running, as well as how late/on time the rest of the Empire Service is.

AFAIK things have still not been changed, so only the track closest to the station building can actually directly access the line leading to Boston. The other two tracks require a backup move to reach the line to Boston. So depending on timing, Amtrak often can't afford to tie up tracks with that backup move, and therefore will put the stubby on the track closest to the station. When they do that, one has no choice but to go up to the sky bridge and back down.

Now if they ever build the final track for the station, then this will cease to be an issue. But again, I've not heard of any plans lately to actually build that track. AFAIK, that died along with the Turboliner deal as well as the second main line track between ALB and SDY. Although there is still enough pressure for that second main between ALB - SDY, so that may one day still get built.

True, true, true Alan, oh master of Amtrak, I did do the shove move on both of my LSL-BOS trips. I didn't know why though so that's very interesting. The stop at ALB is one of my favorites, (with the power change and all), as the wife and I have gone on to NYC a couple of times as well. We decided to go to Hudson for a visit one trip so we detrained the LSL and had to do the sky walk move up to come back down so we could catch a 'local' to the next stop at Hudson.

 

[had8ley]

"When the train pulls into Albany from Chicago, typically there is a stub train train(A short train with a cafe car and a couple of coaches) waiting on the track closest to the station building. This train will run to Boston, so all passengers going to Boston must go upstairs into the station and then back down on the other platform to reach the stub train."

"Things used to be a lot more complicated back when the Boston section was combined with the NY section, but now the dance is much simpler, even though it's not as convienent for the passengers."

Not always true- the last two times I went to Boston and back the stub train was literally right across from the LSL- both ways. We exited the sleeper and walked about 75' to our Business Class seats.

M

Mark;

That was exactly my experience the last round trip we made on the Boston-Chicago LSL.

You guys have been lucky then, as if I had to guess I'd say that at least 30% to 50% of the time, the stub was not directly across the platform. Since Albany's new station has never been finished, and at this point it is unclear if it ever will be, where the stubby sits depends on just how late the LSL is running, as well as how late/on time the rest of the Empire Service is.

AFAIK things have still not been changed, so only the track closest to the station building can actually directly access the line leading to Boston. The other two tracks require a backup move to reach the line to Boston. So depending on timing, Amtrak often can't afford to tie up tracks with that backup move, and therefore will put the stubby on the track closest to the station. When they do that, one has no choice but to go up to the sky bridge and back down.

Now if they ever build the final track for the station, then this will cease to be an issue. But again, I've not heard of any plans lately to actually build that track. AFAIK, that died along with the Turboliner deal as well as the second main line track between ALB and SDY. Although there is still enough pressure for that second main between ALB - SDY, so that may one day still get built.

True, true, true Alan, oh master of Amtrak, I did do the shove move on both of my LSL-BOS trips. I didn't know why though so that's very interesting. The stop at ALB is one of my favorites, (with the power change and all), as the wife and I have gone on to NYC a couple of times as well. We decided to go to Hudson for a visit one trip so we detrained the LSL and had to do the sky walk move up to come back down so we could catch a 'local' to the next stop at Hudson.

Hudson, in my opinion, is one of the prettier stations on the Hudson side. They can keep Yonkers and Croton/Harmon for Metro-North.

 

[AlanB]

Hudson, in my opinion, is one of the prettier stations on the Hudson side. They can keep Yonkers and Croton/Harmon for Metro-North.

Absolutely! Croton/Harmon and Yonkers are nothing special at all. Poughkeepsie at least is a bit better, but if one wants a classic RR station, Hudson is by far the better choice.

 

[Mark]

Hudson, in my opinion, is one of the prettier stations on the Hudson side. They can keep Yonkers and Croton/Harmon for Metro-North.

Absolutely! Croton/Harmon and Yonkers are nothing special at all. Poughkeepsie at least is a bit better, but if one wants a classic RR station, Hudson is by far the better choice.

Hudson was a really nice trip, being from the Chicago area, I never get to see the P32AC/DMs up close so I got some good video and pictures. There's practically one or more every hour, almost like the Metras in Chicago. I'm also a big Amfleet fan and we have mostly Horizons here. The wife went 'antiqueing' and I went 'Amtraking'.