West out of Pittsburgh

[Oldsmoboi]

Was there ever a name train (even pre-amtrak) that ran west out of Pittsburgh that didn't go to Chicago? Something like a Pittsburgh-Columbus-Cincinnati-St. Louis or Pittsburgh-Columbus-Indianapolis-St. Louis.

I ask because one of the frustrations I currently have is that in my need to travel to Texas, it feels rather odd to backtrack to Chicago first..... not that there is any danger of Amtrak running such a train.

 

[JayPea]

There was Amtrak's National Limited, which ran from New York/Washington DC to Pittsburgh then to Kansas City by way of Columbus, Dayton, Indianapolis, and St. Louis. This train was discontinued in 1979 as part of the Jimmy Carter cuts. There were probably routes in the pre-Amtrak era that ran that way, too, but I'm not up on my pre-Amtrak routes, unfortunately.

 

[Shanghai]

Maybe it was the Spirit of St. Louis. I rode it from Newark, NJ to Indianapolis and return.

I think the year was 1975 near Christmas. I can recall the train traveled across Pennsylvania,

through small towns and the Christmas lights were very beautiful.

 

[Mackensen]

Was there ever a name train (even pre-amtrak) that ran west out of Pittsburgh that didn't go to Chicago? Something like a Pittsburgh-Columbus-Cincinnati-St. Louis or Pittsburgh-Columbus-Indianapolis-St. Louis.

I ask because one of the frustrations I currently have is that in my need to travel to Texas, it feels rather odd to backtrack to Chicago first..... not that there is any danger of Amtrak running such a train.

Plenty. Amtrak ran the National Limited New York-Pittsburgh-Columbus-St. Louis-Kansas City from 1971 to 1979. The closest it got to Indianapolis was Terre Haute.

@Shanghai: it was called the Spirit of St. Louis until about July 1971; a holdover from the Penn Central.

 

[Oldsmoboi]

Thanks. The lack of a Pittsburgh-Columbus-Indy connection has bothered me for some time. The I-70 corridor between these cities gets a lot of use and it would also lend to a connection for south bound trains.

 

[PRR 60]

Was there ever a name train (even pre-amtrak) that ran west out of Pittsburgh that didn't go to Chicago? Something like a Pittsburgh-Columbus-Cincinnati-St. Louis or Pittsburgh-Columbus-Indianapolis-St. Louis.

I ask because one of the frustrations I currently have is that in my need to travel to Texas, it feels rather odd to backtrack to Chicago first..... not that there is any danger of Amtrak running such a train.

What you're looking for is a 2011 version of the PRR's Penn Texas. It ran from New York to St. Louis with through cars going on to Dallas, Fort Worth, San Antonio and El Paso on various MoPac, Frisco, T&P and Katy trains.

A sample schedule from 1948 is HERE.

 

[Oldsmoboi]

You guys are awesome. The best resource for rail travel both historical and current on the web!

 

[jis]

The 1965 timetable shows two through trains from new York to St. Louis via Pittsburgh:

1. 30/31 "Spirit of St. Louis"

2. 3/4 "The Penn Texas"

In addition 31/4 carried the New York - Cincinnati "Cincinnati Limited" with it to/from Columbus, where it became a self standing train to Cincinnati.

In addition there was 13/32 no name Pittsburgh - St. Louis train which ran to St. Louis every day except Monday and ran to Pittsburgh daily - go figure.

In the same timetable there were three New York - Chicago trains via Pittsburgh - The Manhattan Limited, the Broadway Limited and the Pennsylvania Limited. Broadway limited had a connection to Washington DC at Harrisburg.

There were two New York Pittsburgh trains - The Duquesne and The Juniata.

And oddly enough a train called The Admiral which only ran Chicago to New York but not the other way. Probably a printing error.

 

[Mackensen]

The 1965 timetable shows two through trains from new York to St. Louis via Pittsburgh:

1. 30/31 "Spirit of St. Louis"

2. 3/4 "The Penn Texas"

In addition 31/4 carried the New York - Cincinnati "Cincinnati Limited" with it to/from Columbus, where it became a self standing train to Cincinnati.

In addition there was 13/32 no name Pittsburgh - St. Louis train which ran to St. Louis every day except Monday and ran to Pittsburgh daily - go figure.

In the same timetable there were three New York - Chicago trains via Pittsburgh - The Manhattan Limited, the Broadway Limited and the Pennsylvania Limited. Broadway limited had a connection to Washington DC at Harrisburg.

There were two New York Pittsburgh trains - The Duquesne and The Juniata.

And oddly enough a train called The Admiral which only ran Chicago to New York but not the other way. Probably a printing error.

Not a typo; the Admiral lost its westbound counterpart in 1958.

 

[rile42]

I used to ride the PRR's Penn Texas from North Philly station to a small town east of Columbus called Coshocton. If I recall, I think the last time I rode it was maybe 1970. My father was employed as a brakeman on the PRR working yards in Philly. We traveled on the Clevelander and the Penn Texas many times in the 50's and 60's to visit relatives in Ohio.

 

[DivMiler]

Broadway limited had a connection to Washington DC at Harrisburg.

When was the last time there was direct passenger rail service between Baltimore (or Washington) and Harrisburg?

 

[Mackensen]

Broadway limited had a connection to Washington DC at Harrisburg.

When was the last time there was direct passenger rail service between Baltimore (or Washington) and Harrisburg?

I want to say October 28, 1978, when the Washington sections of the National Limited and Broadway Limited were re-routed via Philadelphia.

 

[jis]

Broadway limited had a connection to Washington DC at Harrisburg.

When was the last time there was direct passenger rail service between Baltimore (or Washington) and Harrisburg?

I want to say October 28, 1978, when the Washington sections of the National Limited and Broadway Limited were re-routed via Philadelphia.

It was actually the October timetable in 1981 when 441/440 the Washington section of the Broadway limited was changed from connecting to the Broadway Limited in Philadelphia to connecting with it at Pittsburgh (via Cumberland). So there was direct service from Washington DC to Harrisburg until the October 1981 timetable went into effect.

 

[Mackensen]

Broadway limited had a connection to Washington DC at Harrisburg.

When was the last time there was direct passenger rail service between Baltimore (or Washington) and Harrisburg?

I want to say October 28, 1978, when the Washington sections of the National Limited and Broadway Limited were re-routed via Philadelphia.

It was actually the October timetable in 1981 when 441/440 the Washington section of the Broadway limited was changed from connecting to the Broadway Limited in Philadelphia to connecting with it at Pittsburgh (via Cumberland). So there was direct service from Washington DC to Harrisburg until the October 1981 timetable went into effect.

Right, because at that point it became the Capitol Limited. On the other hand, a 1980 timetable seems to show the 441 connecting at Philadelphia.

 

[jis]

Broadway limited had a connection to Washington DC at Harrisburg.

When was the last time there was direct passenger rail service between Baltimore (or Washington) and Harrisburg?

I want to say October 28, 1978, when the Washington sections of the National Limited and Broadway Limited were re-routed via Philadelphia.

It was actually the October timetable in 1981 when 441/440 the Washington section of the Broadway limited was changed from connecting to the Broadway Limited in Philadelphia to connecting with it at Pittsburgh (via Cumberland). So there was direct service from Washington DC to Harrisburg until the October 1981 timetable went into effect.

Right, because at that point it became the Capitol Limited. On the other hand, a 1980 timetable seems to show the 441 connecting at Philadelphia.

Right. Then the joint train 41/441 ran through Harrisburg to Pittsburgh. Hence there still was through one seat service from Washington to Harrisburg. It is only when the connection point moved to Pittsburgh that the one seat service to Harrisburg went away.

 

[Oldsmoboi]

The Harrisburg - DC connection is another one of those important "missing links" that I see in the system. (I admit I'm very Pennsylvania centric, but it's what I know)

Harrisburg - York - Baltimore and onto the NEC southbound to DC would probably see similar results to the Lynchburger and Keystone.

 

[railiner]

Amtrak's National Limited, did run from New York (and Washington) to Pittsburgh, Columbus, Dayton, Indianapolis, Effingham, St. Louis, and Kansas City. It also ran a through coast-to-coast sleeper that was switched to/from the Southwest Limited at Kansas City. There was also another New York-Los Angeles sleeper that ran via Washington and New Orleans interchanged with the still independent Southern Crescent.

Some time after ther 1979 elimination of the National Limited (along with the Floridian, North Coast Hiawatha, and others), the PRR former 'Panhandle' route between Pittsburgh and Columbus was abandoned by Conrail, so the direct route was gone forever. Freights were rerouted over a portion of the Broadway's route.

Prior to Amtrak, as mentioned above, the Penn Texas carried thru cars to the Mopac/T&P lines, the Frisco, the Katy, and even thru sleeper to Mexico City on the NdeM.

As for Wahington to Harrisburg....prior to Amtrak, the Penn Central ran a diesel train from Baltimore to Buffalo on the old Northern Central route via York to Harrisburg. It then went on to Williamsport and up across western New York state. It made a cross-platform connection at Baltimore with a corridor train from Washington. In earlier times, they ran thru to Wahington. After Amtrak started, they ran the Broadway and National connecting train with electric (GG-1) power from Washington to Baltimore to Harrisburg via the recent freight-only Columbia and Port Deposit ("Port Road") via Safe Harbor. At Harrisburg they were combined with the New York sections. As mentioned earlier, when the Broadway started going into 30th Street Philadelphia to change power (previously it only served North Philadelphia when it used the 'subway' bypass at Zoo; there was direct service from Philly, but alas no more service thru to Baltimore except by connection at Philly. The reborn Capitol gave Washington service direct to Pittsburgh on the B&O route.

 

[jis]

After Amtrak started, they ran the Broadway and National connecting train with electric (GG-1) power from Washington to Baltimore to Harrisburg via the recent freight-only Columbia and Port Deposit ("Port Road") via Safe Harbor. At Harrisburg they were combined with the New York sections. As mentioned earlier, when the Broadway started going into 30th Street Philadelphia to change power (previously it only served North Philadelphia when it used the 'subway' bypass at Zoo; there was direct service from Philly, but alas no more service thru to Baltimore except by connection at Philly. The reborn Capitol gave Washington service direct to Pittsburgh on the B&O route.

All true except that for a brief period the 441 and 41 hooked up at Philadelphia after the Broadway started to run through Philadelphia 30th St. See: http://www.timetables.org/full.php?group=19800803&item=0036 . Until this ended in October 1981 when the connection point moved to Pittsburgh, there still was direct one seat ride from Baltimore to Harrisburg.

Incidentally, also for the duration of time when the 41 - 441 connection was at Harrisburg, there was a period when the Washington section ran through Philadelphia 30th St. Station and not via the Port Road. See for example: http://www.timetables.org/full.php?group=19800203&item=0036 . So 30th Street got direct service to Chicago via 441, before 41 started going through 30th St.

 

[railiner]

After Amtrak started, they ran the Broadway and National connecting train with electric (GG-1) power from Washington to Baltimore to Harrisburg via the recent freight-only Columbia and Port Deposit ("Port Road") via Safe Harbor. At Harrisburg they were combined with the New York sections. As mentioned earlier, when the Broadway started going into 30th Street Philadelphia to change power (previously it only served North Philadelphia when it used the 'subway' bypass at Zoo; there was direct service from Philly, but alas no more service thru to Baltimore except by connection at Philly. The reborn Capitol gave Washington service direct to Pittsburgh on the B&O route.

All true except that for a brief period the 441 and 41 hooked up at Philadelphia after the Broadway started to run through Philadelphia 30th St. See: http://www.timetables.org/full.php?group=19800803&item=0036 . Until this ended in October 1981 when the connection point moved to Pittsburgh, there still was direct one seat ride from Baltimore to Harrisburg.

Incidentally, also for the duration of time when the 41 - 441 connection was at Harrisburg, there was a period when the Washington section ran through Philadelphia 30th St. Station and not via the Port Road. See for example: http://www.timetables.org/full.php?group=19800203&item=0036 . So 30th Street got direct service to Chicago via 441, before 41 started going through 30th St.

Good catch!

I did not research the details, but simply pulled from memory, which aint what it used to be....

I might also note..I believe the old Northern Central route thru York is mostly gone, so service can not be restored that way again...

 

[jis]

I might also note..I believe the old Northern Central route thru York is mostly gone, so service can not be restored that way again...

Yep. The route through York is no more and will be very expensive to restore.