Washington Post on Boarding Amtrak, Particularly at Washington Union Station

[railiner]

I agree that Penn Station, New York is a tough place to operate from, due to the vast amount of train and pedestrian traffic, in an antiquated infrastructure, that was made even worse, when they built the 'Garden' above it, and added the additional support columns to support it...right when traffic started growing fast in the station.   Hopefully, the expansion into the old GPO will alleviate a lot of that in the future.   As it is now, the platforms, with the exception of one extra wide one used by the LIRR, which doesn't really need it, are extremely narrow.  They have very little room between the platform edges and stairways, elevator's, support column's, etc.   Add to that mix, commissary carts, baggage trucks, baggage, wheelchairs, crowd's...it just wasn't designed to handle what it is handling today.  To fill a platform with a large crowd, with other trains entering or leaving could result in a disaster.   So it is best to keep passenger's off the platform's until the train is fully ready to board, and the platform is clear of obstruction's or detraining passenger's.

That said, I agree that when boarding is ready, they should (and IIRC sometimes do), announce "use all stairways down" to the designated track.

 

[John Santos]

There is a difference between local commuter trains (LIRR and NJT) at Penn vs Amtrak.  Most Amtrak trains have lots of people getting off and on most trains at Penn.  On the other hand, commuter trains are highly time dependent.  In the morning most passengers are arriving to work and getting off the trains, with relatively few boarding outbound trains, and in the afternoon it's the reverse.  (At least, that's what happens in Boston, where I used to commute daily, many years ago, but I'm sure the same is true at any downtown commuter rail terminal.)  I'm sure this difference affects the best passenger handling process and comparing Amtrak to NJT and LIRR is really an apples to oranges comparison.

 

[TiBike]

The Amtrak inspector general looked into boarding procedures a couple years ago, and pretty much found the same thing: no consistency or standards. Staff does things the way they want to:

https://amtrakoig.gov/sites/default/files/reports/OIG-A-2016-011.pdf

I was reminded of this, again, last week when I took the Capitol Corridor from San Jose to Sacramento. Sacramento has electronic signboards with up to date info all over the place. At San Jose, you have to walk inside the section of the station where the ticket counter is, and then look around. Sometimes the track number is written on a paper sign, sometimes it's on a computer screen, sometimes it's not there at all. If you get off a connecting bus and walk directly to the station, you bypass the ticket counter and have no way of knowing where your train is, or where to find that info.

This is in a station that also serves Caltrain and ACE. Caltrain has electronic signboards with up to date track info. The logical thing to do would be to add all trains/track info to the Caltrain signboards, but apparently that's rocket surgery.

 

[Thirdrail7]

So how come LIRR and NJT which together carry 80% or more of the passengers at NY Penn Station do not go through the Amtrak charade.Do the platforms grow extra narrow only for Amtrak trains? Departures are generally announced ten minutes before the designated departure time, with a track number, and people find their way to the platform through multiple staircases available - thus dispersing the crowd, instead of being corralled together by a single staircase thus creating a safety hazard for all. There is absolutely no logic to what Amtrak does at Penn Station in New York. Just IMHO of course. Many rail "experts" have tried to come up with logical sounding reasons but none has so far been convincing. :lol:

We've been through this before but allow to address you statement, which I highlighted. I would answer YES, the platform gets narrower for an Amtrak train. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't ever recall seeing NJT sending a baggage cart down to the platform to mingle with their passengers as the train is loading.  While I do recall LIRR selling booze on the platform for certain rush hour trains, I don't recall them pushing through a thick crowd of passengers with a giant truck, stocking food on the actual train.  These things encroach on the space of the passengers so quite often, they'll unload an Amtrak, service it and then load the the next passengers.

Even most NJT and LIRR that use inbound, loaded equipment to turn for outbound train have a dwell time so they are not unloading a few 1000 people as they are attempting to load them on the same train.

Additionally, while ticket inspections have started disappearing, if someone boards the wrong commuter train, they can remedy that situation easily.  That is not necessarily true, with an Amtrak that may not even be in the same state by the first stop, may not have another train until the next day and even if there is, it may be sold out.

So, as others have pointed out, your comparison is apples to oranges.

 

[Thirdrail7]

I agree with most of your post, Railiner. The only thing is this:

That said, I agree that when boarding is ready, they should (and IIRC sometimes do), announce "use all stairways down" to the designated track.

This may not be feasible as they DO ATTEMPT to keep some of the escalators going up for the arriving passengers. This will also help keep traffic flowing, which will help disperse the passengers.

That is until the passengers turn them off and now you have a free for all on the escalator. I watched passengers turn the escalator off with people on it, going the opposite direction.

 

[ehbowen]

I agree with most of your post, Railiner. The only thing is this:

This may not be feasible as they DO ATTEMPT to keep some of the escalators going up for the arriving passengers. This will also help keep traffic flowing, which will help disperse the passengers.

That is until the passengers turn them off and now you have a free for all on the escalator. I watched passengers turn the escalator off with people on it, going the opposite direction.

That's dangerous. Very dangerous. As long as an escalator is running (in either direction) the motor acts as a dynamic brake; it keeps things from running away if there's an overload. But if the motor is off and the mechanical brake is worn, or out of adjustment, or otherwise not working properly and enough weight is put on the escalator it will start "running through the brake" with nothing to slow it down.

I used to work at the Convention Center in Houston. One night, a group of several thousand people was leaving an exhibit hall. Someone hit the stop switch on an "up" escalator and started walking down it. They were followed by hundreds more. With all that weight, the escalator began running through the brake and with no motor to slow it down, it ran away completely. Several people were injured, enough to require medical treatment.

 

[Thirdrail7]

The Washington Post has an article on boarding concerns on Amtrak -- why is it so hodgepodge and at Washington Union Station (WAS) and New York Pennsylvania Station (NYP) non-sensical?  I haven't been on many other railroads around the world, but I've wondered about the boarding policies on Amtrak -- why take up room in the station instead of down on the platform?

The short version, is quite often the train (as you see it) isn;t ready to receive passengers. This is a big thing, particularly in WAS.  While most trains stations build their trains in a yard, and move the equipment intact to the passenger station, this is typically not the case in DC. The trains are assembled in the station. Just because you see equipment sitting there, doesn't mean it has been inspected and is ready for departure.  That was premise behind this statement in the article:

Alison Simon, a senior director for Amtrak’s Northeast Corridor, the country’s busiest line extending from Boston to Washington, said the boarding process at Union Station is not primarily for security reasons.

Rather, because the Northeast Corridor terminates in Washington, many trains need to be restocked, mechanically inspected and cleaned at Union Station — along with requiring either a physical turnaround, called “wyeing” — outside the station or undergoing up to an hour-long process to restore it to service. She said the railroad does not want customers to queue on the platform while those processes are taking place, both because of the equipment and the personnel working to ready trains for service.

“If my train is under ‘blue light’, which means that it is being serviced, I can’t have customers just wandering out [there],” Simon said. “Then you’re talking about a security issue, you’re talking about a safety issue. . . . It’s a Union Station issue. We need to keep our trains moving.”




 

Equipment is still being shoved, moved and is subjected to rolling.  Additionally, they have attempted to load with the flags up only to find out the train is not ready and now you have to unload people to make the moves.  People have claimed injury when these things happen. So, it is better to wait until the train is actually ready and has a crew that is train side,  and have completed THEIR pre departure inspections before loading.

Even the IG report couldn't make specific recommendations because each place is different.  i've never been there but does San Jose build and insect their trains in the station? Do they have mechanical working on the train or do the swap cars in the station?   Does it have 1056 trains a day like NYP?

 

[jis]

It just amazes me how much more difficult and time consuming it is in the US to turn what amounts to a commuter train at each end point, compared to almost anywhere else. But it is what it is, and the politics of the whole thing is so messed up that there is neither the capability nor the desire, political will or resources that flow from such to change anything for the better. So we should just thank our stars that we have any trains running at all, and be happy. :mellow:

BTW, NYP is a special case of hopelessness, and I don't believe anything can be improved there without shutting the place down for a while and rebuilding it, which of course ain't gonna happen. So we will just pile more crud on top of existing crud until the place just collapses under its own weight and then someone might develop the desire to actually fix it. Meanwhile Amtrak will heroically struggle along to keep the day of reckoning from arriving sooner rather than later.

 

[cpotisch]

I agree with most of your post, Railiner. The only thing is this:

This may not be feasible as they DO ATTEMPT to keep some of the escalators going up for the arriving passengers. This will also help keep traffic flowing, which will help disperse the passengers.

That is until the passengers turn them off and now you have a free for all on the escalator. I watched passengers turn the escalator off with people on it, going the opposite direction.

Sorry, how and why are passengers turning off escalators?

 

[ehbowen]

Sorry, how and why are passengers turning off escalators?

Every escalator has an emergency stop switch. But, with the motor shut off (by using the switch), nothing keeps the escalator from running away except the mechanical brake. If it's out of adjustment or simply overloaded (by too many people getting on and walking down it), then the escalator will run away with nothing to slow it down.

 

[OBS]

Every escalator has an emergency stop switch. But, with the motor shut off (by using the switch), nothing keeps the escalator from running away except the mechanical brake. If it's out of adjustment or simply overloaded (by too many people getting on and walking down it), then the escalator will run away with nothing to slow it down.

It is no wonder that the escalators on the LIRR level are  constantly under repair/overhaul....These escalators are CONSTANTLY turned off by passengers for their own convenience.....

 

[Thirdrail7]

It's a great article, insofar as it recognizes a real problem customers at WUS and NYP experience every day.

The solution they propose--letting PAX access the platforms and spread out well before departure -- may not necessarily be the best or only solution, but it doesn't detract from the value of the article.

I think this passage deserves highlighting: "“According to operations management research, engaging passengers in service-related activities — for example, moving to the platform or boarding the train — gives them the impression that their service has begun, which can reduce anxiety and make waiting more tolerable.”

Apart from letting PAX access the platforms, which I don't necessarily endorse for the reasons stated (narrow platforms and need to service the trains via the platforms before PAX arrive), the following has always concerned me about the boarding mess at Penn and WUS: 

1. Why are the gates posted so late in the departure process, like 10 minutes? Of course people are going to rush. Why can't gates be posted earlier?

2. Do seniors board first and are they supposed to congregate at the front? Not consistent across Amtrak, at any given station, or any particular train (in my experience).

3. Will I have to take out and show my ticket at the top of the escalator? Again, not consistent. Sometimes yes, sometimes no.

4. Why do many/most European trains leave from the same track every day (in my experience) but not Amtrak? They even post the consist and the location of cars along the track in many stations.

Amazing that no-one at Amtrak has responsibility for the boarding process.

1) A lot of that depends on when the train is ready. In the case of NYP, the trains no longer dwell in the station for long periods of time. This is particularly true during the commission hours. The train may only arrive in the station 10 to 15 minutes prior to its scheduled departure. This problem is amplified if it is a through train.  In WAS, they have attempted to board the train up to 30 minutes in advance if the train is ready to clear out the station. However, that is contingent on staff being available to meet the passengers.

2) Seniors, children and families receiving priority  boarding is not going to be consistent across the system since again, each station is different.  Using a station like Wilmington or Philadelphia,  they are though stations. Sure, you can send them down to the platform earlier but all they are going to stand there with everyone else. Boston and Washington are able to perform this type of boarding since they are typically origination passenger terminals. NYP can do it if the train is an originating terminal. 

3) They've started backing away from the ticket checks...which has led to some entertaining stories. 

4) I can't speak for European stations but Amtrak largely traverses host railroads.  I'd venture to say most trains operate on the same track every day. As for the NEC, the NEC is the busiest railroad corridor in the country. It is shared with many other railroads and is extremely congested. Due to the density and operating profiles, sometimes trains often have to go ''where they fit....when they fit."

As for someone having responsibility for the boarding process,  the stations usually control based upon the operating environment.  A one size fits all solution is not likely to work. Even the I.G. report conceded and even stated that the pre-boarding of trains at NYp was waste, which is why it was cancelled In term of making master position, as someone indicated, another  high level, overpaid bureaucratic, position isn't the answer.  I'd rather see that salary go to a few baggage handlers or even a few chefs.

 

[Thirdrail7]

BTW, NYP is a special case of hopelessness, and I don't believe anything can be improved there without shutting the place down for a while and rebuilding it, which of course ain't gonna happen. So we will just pile more crud on top of existing crud until the place just collapses under its own weight and then someone might develop the desire to actually fix it. Meanwhile Amtrak will heroically struggle along to keep the day of reckoning from arriving sooner rather than later.

The problem is the term "fixing" it and you know what is about to happen Jis. I'm mounting up on my high horse.

Why are they continuing to stuff things into Penn Station? There are still only 21 tracks and not of them access every place they should which limits your ability to handle the traffic. Sure, cutting holes in the floors and making new concourses, exits, stations (the Farley fiasco) all sounds good on paper. However, what is being done to change the operational profile of Penn Station? I don;t care if you have an exit PER PERSON.  None of that matters if you continue to stuff more trains into an infrastructure that it wasn't designed to handle.

As Dutchrailnut famously said 'it is a new tent over the same old circus!"

Washington DC is also out of control. That is because traffic has increased and Union Station was basically turned into a mall! (Didn't the Onion spoof this fact?) 25 years ago, you barely had VRE service, MARC didn't have much service and Washington DC wasn't in the midst of a renaissance.  That is no longer the case. They are now taking steps to expand it (instead of eliminating the mall) but relief is years away. 

Fixing these things should include a diversification of resources and that MUST include ferries.  It MUST. They should be a part of our transportation policy.

 

[cpotisch]

It is no wonder that the escalators on the LIRR level are  constantly under repair/overhaul....These escalators are CONSTANTLY turned off by passengers for their own convenience.....

I’m surprised that it doesn’t require a key, or at minimum some big scary sign that says “Only turn off in the event of an emergency. Alarm will sound” or something like that. :unsure:

 

[Thirdrail7]

I’m surprised that it doesn’t require a key, or at minimum some big scary sign that says “Only turn off in the event of an emergency. Alarm will sound” or something like that. :unsure:

The next time you're on an escalator, take a hard look at it. There is an emergency stop on it in case some falls or gets hurt.  If you needed a key to stop it in an emergency, that would be a recipe for a disaster.

As for the scary sign and alarm, they both exist.  The sign emphatically states that interfering with the operation is a summonsable offense, with up to a $500 fine.  Unfortunately, you'd need a brigade of police officers to enforce it because when someone shuts it off, there are usually a few 100 people following them up or down the escalator.

It's a trampling situation. The only thing you can typically do is make way.

 

[railiner]

I would venture to say that there is a very small percentage of the commuters that have the nerve to actually hit the stop button....

With video surveillance (perhaps mount a large monitor from the ceiling above the escalator entrance to emphasize that fact in the warning), it should be easy to arrest the perpetrator and make an example of him.   

Other’s would get the message, and the practice would fade away...

 

[ehbowen]

I’m surprised that it doesn’t require a key, or at minimum some big scary sign that says “Only turn off in the event of an emergency. Alarm will sound” or something like that. :unsure:

The next time you're on an escalator, take a hard look at it. There is an emergency stop on it in case some falls or gets hurt.  If you needed a key to stop it in an emergency, that would be a recipe for a disaster.

Yeah, if you have some child wearing tennis shoes who get them caught in the crack between the step and the side guard, you have to be able to hit the stop switch RIGHT NOW. Actually, many escalators do have safety switches behind those side guards for just that eventuality...but don't you dare count on it.

 

[Skyline]

Every escalator has an emergency stop switch. But, with the motor shut off (by using the switch), nothing keeps the escalator from running away except the mechanical brake. If it's out of adjustment or simply overloaded (by too many people getting on and walking down it), then the escalator will run away with nothing to slow it down.

Slightly off topic, but the DC Metro escalators are often "off," meaning people MUST walk them. Sometimes only a few are "off," and sometimes the majority or even all of them are "off." Are you saying we are in grave danger walking on these? This happens quite often, and is more common off-peak, but I've seen it at rush hour too.

 

[ehbowen]

Unless they have a special modification that I'm not aware of (possible; I've been in general facility maintenance and not specifically elevator/escalator maintenance), then, yes, it could happen. The brake is supposed to be able to hold a full load of people walking...but if it's even slightly out of adjustment, or if more people crowd on than the designer anticipated, then you have a problem waiting to happen.

Edit To Add: Here's a video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoeWPQPBfRc

 

[railiner]

Unless they have a special modification that I'm not aware of (possible; I've been in general facility maintenance and not specifically elevator/escalator maintenance), then, yes, it could happen. The brake is supposed to be able to hold a full load of people walking...but if it's even slightly out of adjustment, or if more people crowd on than the designer anticipated, then you have a problem waiting to happen.

I am not doubting what you are saying...obviously you seem to have a lot more knowledge on the subject than I do, but it would seem to me that in this day and age, the escalators would have to be built with a lot of safety redundancy built in....able to safely support say 50% more weight than its "maximum" capacity, just in case scenario's like described, occur...

And they would have to be periodically inspected, and perhaps recertified as to their ability to meet those standards... :unsure:

 

[ehbowen]

I am not doubting what you are saying...obviously you seem to have a lot more knowledge on the subject than I do, but it would seem to me that in this day and age, the escalators would have to be built with a lot of safety redundancy built in....able to safely support say 50% more weight than its "maximum" capacity, just in case scenario's like described, occur...

And they would have to be periodically inspected, and perhaps recertified as to their ability to meet those standards... :unsure:

Unfortunately, these kind of things tend to get shuffled to the back and even gun-decked, until something like this happens:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3LVeDd3I60

Yes, Skyline, that's the Washington Metro. And, contrary to what the talking head suggests (in the previous video from Boston), pushing the "emergency stop" switch would have done absolutely nothing to mitigate this incident. The only cure is to keep people off of an out-of-service escalator.

 

[west point]

The WaPo article completely ignored the plans to rebuild the platforms at WASH to wider specifications .  That includes making new lower level tracks under the present upper level platforms.

 

[TiBike]

Fixing these things should include a diversification of resources and that MUST include ferries.  It MUST. They should be a part of our transportation policy.

That's an interesting statement. Do you mean commuter ferries, or something more like the sea going ships you see in Europe and Asia? Or did you omit the smiley face? 

 

[OBS]

I would venture to say that there is a very small percentage of the commuters that have the nerve to actually hit the stop button....

With video surveillance (perhaps mount a large monitor from the ceiling above the escalator entrance to emphasize that fact in the warning), it should be easy to arrest the perpetrator and make an example of him.   

Other’s would get the message, and the practice would fade away...

Unfortunately, it literally happens every hour of every day in NYP (every hour assuming it is restarted after each previous incident).  

 

[cpotisch]

Unfortunately, it literally happens every hour of every day in NYP (every hour assuming it is restarted after each previous incident).  

Wait a second. Is this why so many escalators at Penn Station “don’t work”? They’re not broken or turned off by the staff, it’s just been a ton of moron passengers who can’t wait? What the hell is wrong with people?