Virginia Service expansion

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Alexandria Nick said:
It isn't the air temp that's important. It is the temperature that the object is heated to. For instance, the air temp can be around 85 to 90, but on an astroturf field, the surface temperature can be closer to 170 to 175. I don't know what railroad tracks heat like. You've got a long string of metal, which leads me to believe that it doesn't take a significant amount of heat to cause trouble. Amtrak's own heat restriction temperature is 90 degrees. It isn't like CSX is outrageously different.
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On the NEC Amtrak says 90F air temp, but it actually uses rail temperature gauges to drive the actual speed limit enforced as a TSR by ACSES so it can be quite dynamic. The parameters used are not published AFAIK.
 
Observations: did
1. Did these increases also reflect in slightly increased VA riderships on the 6 longer distance thru trains? Example did more inter VA passengers board those trains?
2. How many times on certain days were some of these trains sold out? If many then more passenger cars should be added when these sold outs occur. Realize not possible at present car shortages.
3. Norfolk = 41,900 passengers. more or less 180 train in the month. Just an average of 232+ passengers. Probably some trains many more passengers?
4. Inter Virgina train passengers number 30% increase. Total Va trains more this June. But would the 30% increase translate to the number of passengers Amtrak is not getting on its LD trains that are capacity limited? If so, no more be said.
 
jis said:
On the NEC Amtrak says 90F air temp, but it actually uses rail temperature gauges to drive the actual speed limit enforced as a TSR by ACSES so it can be quite dynamic. The parameters used are not published AFAIK.
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It can be one of the other. There's a rail temperature and an ambient temperature. On CSX, it can also be a dramatic temperature change.

It any event, since it is public, here is an Amtrak website for some of system rail temperatures.
 
Thirdrail7 said:
It any event, since it is public, here is an Amtrak website for some of system rail temperatures.
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Most interesting. Note this is existing condition for a very specific time and date, 10:45pm eastern time, August 6, 2023. Since it is late at night there is no solar heating of the rails, so as could be expected the rail temperature is within a a couple of degrees of the air temperature. There are a few exceptions, one very strange. There are a couple outliers where one or more of the rails is a few degrees warmer than ambient, which could be from several causes. The truly strange one is Jackson MI, Track 1, north rail, 58 degrees with an air temperature of 66 degrees. Interesting to know how that happened.

Solar heating can get the rail up to 30 degrees or more higher than ambient. While a slow order may be aggravating to some, a sudden kink resulting in a derailment is more than aggravating, and yes, reducing speed does reduce the likelihood of that happening.
 
The quicker the 2nd Long bridge is complete the better for more trains.

Is the Cardinal running on a 7 day slots but only using 3? If so could VRPA run a stub RT out to say Clifton Forge and back on those off days once equipment becomes available?
 
west point said:
The quicker the 2nd Long bridge is complete the better for more trains.

Is the Cardinal running on a 7 day slots but only using 3? If so could VRPA run a stub RT out to say Clifton Forge and back on those off days once equipment becomes available?
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The Cardinal is not a state-supported train, though part of it is running on state-owned rail now! But being Long Distance, which means not state-supported, probably eliminates expansion soon. I suppose a 4-days-only slot on the Long Bridge could be used for an extra NEC train, or a VRE, if that wasn't bad politics for taking the Cardinal's possible future slot.
 
Minor trip report: This week I rode a southbound afternoon rush hour NER from WAS. It was delayed 20 minutes coming into WAS, and then ran somewhat slowly to FBG since it was caught behind a VRE. The conductor explained the situation. I didn't realize the track congestion was that high, in the area where extra tracks are going in over the next few years. (WAS - FBG is 1h36m on that VRE train, and the majority of the trip distance on NER to RVR.) The conductor also reminded RVM passengers in person that it was a different station than RVR. I wanted to say, and RVR-RVM takes a long time! But I kept mum. Another upcoming improvement, not as soon as new rail in NoVa.

About WAS platforms, I'd agree with MARC Rider. Only the newer stations in VA have high platforms. I think it's just NFK, RNK, and, next year, NPN (they are already built). It would help at RVR for sure, the busiest in the state.

MARC Rider said:
More NEC trains will be leaving from the lower-level tracks. I hope there are plans to put in high level platforms down there. I generally prefer to board on the upper-level tracks with the high platforms. There's also the issue of ADA compliance, which is currently handled with the hand-cranked wheelchair lifts. Unless they get high platforms on the lover level, loading wheelchair users will become more cumbersome for more riders. Also, for those of us who use the lounge, it would be nice to restore the direct boarding to the lower level, or at least make announcements for Regionals in the lounge and have priority boarding for Select Plus/Executive, seniors, families with children, military in uniform ,etc. at the gate like they used to have. In short, I'm really not fond of boarding crowded New York-bound trains from the lower-level platforms at Washington.
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Work was going on in the RVR station, so passengers walked around it. Traffic backs up leaving the RVR station for us automobile users, since there's only one exit, but you can zoom around it to visit a very decent McDonalds adjacent to the far parking spots. A voluble patron there told me it was a good one. And we worked out the 30% app discount for his food. Amtrak riders, helping even non-riders economize!
 
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JamesWhitcombRiley said:
Minor trip report: This week I rode a southbound afternoon rush hour NER from WAS. It was delayed 20 minutes coming into WAS, and then ran somewhat slowly to FBG since it was caught behind a VRE. The conductor explained the situation. I didn't realize the track congestion was that high, in the area where extra tracks are going in over the next few years. (WAS - FBG is 1h36m on that VRE train, and the majority of the trip distance on NER to RVR.) The conductor also reminded RVM passengers in person that it was a different station than RVR. I wanted to say, and RVR-RVM takes a long time! But I kept mum. Another upcoming improvement, not as soon as new rail in NoVa.

About WAS platforms, I'd agree with MARC Rider. Only the newer stations in VA have high platforms. I think it's just NFK, RNK, and, next year, NPN (they are already built). It would help at RVR for sure, the busiest in the state.



Work was going on in the RVR station, so passengers walked around it. Traffic backs up leaving the RVR station for us automobile users, since there's only one exit, but you can zoom around it to visit a very decent McDonalds adjacent to the far parking spots. A voluble patron there told me it was a good one. And we worked out the 30% app discount for his food. Amtrak riders, helping even non-riders economize!
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Norfolk does not have high platforms.
 
Alexandria Nick said:
It isn't the air temp that's important. It is the temperature that the object is heated to.
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Yes indeed!

Things gain and lose heat/temperature in three ways - conduction, convention and radiation. On a sunny day when the Sun is perpendicular to a rusty rail, its rays can heat it well above the ambient temperature by radiation. On a sunny day at an outdoor swimming pool when the ambient temperature is quite warm, the tiles surrounding the pool can be too hot for bare feet. And most swimming pool tiles do not absorb the Suns radiation as well as rusty rails.
 
west point said:
Is the Cardinal running on a 7 day slots but only using 3? If so could VRPA run a stub RT out to say Clifton Forge and back on those off days once equipment becomes available?
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I am a bit torn on the merits of the stub train. The problem is that Clifton for and Stanton might generate 10,000 riders on about 400 runs per year, 25 riders per run. That leads into the same question as the Adirondack without Montreal: Is it justified? I think not. Because the way the schedule works, the crew would need to be overnighted with away pay from e.g. Tuesday night to Thursday afternoon. It really isn’t great utilization of anything for minimal riders. I think a better move would be to extend to Huntington, which could raise ridership projections to about 45k, or 112 per run, while not requiring a redrew or additional set. It could also reduce away pay and lodging costs on the Cardinal, though I don’t fully know how that works. WV wouldn’t throw in a dime, but I think increased ridership plus reduced costs makes It worthwhile. The other better option is to just run NYP to CVS. CVS is becoming quite the stop and in the Airo era, a same day turn on the current good schedule is possible.
 
Anderson said:
As I said in the first post in this thread, there's a plan for a third train on the Williamsburg line in a few years (2026 is the target).

There are plans to add a whole slew of additional trains into Richmond, but the disposition of said trains south of there is still somewhat unclear - North Carolina wants to beef up service with the "main" SEHSR project, and there are long-term plans to add three more trains to Norfolk.

There's also the proposed east-west corridor, and that would add a train or two to the Peninsula, but you'd have to connect to go north...but if you have at least 15x/day Richmond-Washington, that's a lot less of an issue than it once was.

(Heck, connecting to/from the Silver Star on the FL side has become far less of a pain in the rear than it used to be - a few years back, it generally involved like a six-hour stop at RVR. That's generally down to about 2-3 hours, with the probable ability to use PTB if one of the trains is running late.)
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Interesting the Hampton Roads Transportation Planning Organization released a draft staff report in October proposing a RVA757 connector train service between Newport News and Richmond. (The 757 refers to an area code.) It would improve connections to the long distance trains, etc. A new stop would be added between WBG and RVM, Providence Forge. Perhaps HRTPO can assemble the proposal for a grant request next year.

Two things not mentioned:
  • The at-capacity Long Bridge to DC is not required. Then again, starting RVA757 service could take longer than finishing the bridge.
  • The corridor borders RIC airport, and airports have money.
The report does mention the lengthy time between RVM and RVR. That won't improve until some future date when DC2RVA and/or SEHSR (Richmond to Raleigh) fixes it. Meanwhile NFK has arguably better service than NPN for Northeast Regional trips. And while the new NPN station opening in 2024 is fly, it will be many miles further up the line, not only affecting people closer to the old station, but Ambus services connecting NPN, NFK and Virginia Beach (the largest city in the state by population, though a third the size of Fairfax County. It also has the tallest building, for now).

The HRTPO does a good job considering how car-centric Hampton Roads is. Would have helped if VB had allowed to Tide light rail in. The plan now is to instead dogleg it into a new mixed development in dead mall and "stroad" big box territory in eastern Norfolk, with investment by musician Pharrell. Besides buses and the Tide, the region-wide transit service runs a frequent passenger ferry connecting two of the oldest neighbhoods in the region, with views of ship construction and a massive Second World War crane called the Hammer Head.
 
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The new, relocated Newport News station is set to open in April or May of this year. It's quite spiffy, as seen from I-64, and from the other side like this drawing. It will serve as a transportation center, with the regional bus system, including a route to the nearby airport. A new wye lies just north of the station (leftward in the drawing). It replaces a 1970s standard station (buff brick, not an Amshack!) closer to downtown. That one replaced two previous stations right by the piers, the older one known in the early 20th century for its smokey hustle and bustle. During the Depression the port and shipyard were an employment magnet, from at least as far as North Carolina.

The new station should be popular. A downtown resurgence of NN seems postponed, with mixed commercial development focused mid-city, near the museums and CNU. A sprawling place, NN has the largest private employer in the state - a shipyard that builds for the Navy. Downtown is a waterfront park, with the Victory Arch, commemorating some early transportation of a different kind, returning troops in 1919. Built with stucco plaster, it was 43 years before it was rebuilt in stone. The station project, by contrast, was about ten years from early planning to completion.

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