Viewliner II - Part 1 - Initial Production and Delivery

[ALC Rail Writer]

And I believe the Baggage Dorms (the ones that are 50/50) are non-revenue sleeping berths for crew.

oeter

Yes, I'm aware of the concept. My point was if you were road testing the bag-dorms you'd also thus be road testing much of the items in the sleepers cocurrently.

 

[afigg]

An article in this months Railpace states that the first four Pilot cars will be Diners and baggage cars. Four total. Baggage and Diners will come first, and understablely so. With the Sleeping cars being the last type of car delivered.

For what it is worth, Amtrak's own website blog on the new Viewliners states "After one of each type of car is field tested over the winter, the first units should enter revenue service in summer 2014." Since there 4 types of cars, that indicates at least one of each type has been built. The main production order has been stated as the diner cars, then the baggage-dorms, then the sleepers while the 55 baggage cars are built throughout the production run.

 

[Nathanael]

There were previous statements that one of each type would be built, then a *second* of each type, and *then* the main production run. Something to do with iterative testing.

Anyway, this is my wild and uninformed speculation based on the assumption that there will be *two* test cars of each type, and that they'll be ready to use in revenue service before the main production is ready:

I think the first two diners should go on the LSL (to give all three sets Viewliner diners)

the first two baggage cars on 66/67 (to allow them to get up to full speed on the NEC),

the first two baggage-dorms on the Cardinal (to alleviate the crush on sleeper space and allow it to get up to full speed on the NEC),

and the first two sleepers on the Cardinal (only train where you can test the new "fewer roomettes" sleeper arrangement using only two cars, without confusing the reservations system).

Once the main deliveries start, I'm sure Amtrak will be trying to displace Heritage diners ASAP.

If I were Amtrak, I would try to put new baggage cars on trains running on the NEC first (to allow full-speed running). If so, some of those baggage cars would be displaced by bag-dorms later, and only then would the baggage cars start to migrate west.

Now we wait and see what actually happens.. It sounds like full-scale deployment will be mostly happening over the 2015 fiscal year, not the 2014 fiscal year, unfortunately.

2015 should be an interesting year for Amtrak... if any projects manage to stay on schedule (waaaay too many have slipped).

 

[Acela150]

An article in this months Railpace states that the first four Pilot cars will be Diners and baggage cars. Four total. Baggage and Diners will come first, and understablely so. With the Sleeping cars being the last type of car delivered.

For what it is worth, Amtrak's own website blog on the new Viewliners states "After one of each type of car is field tested over the winter, the first units should enter revenue service in summer 2014." Since there 4 types of cars, that indicates at least one of each type has been built. The main production order has been stated as the diner cars, then the baggage-dorms, then the sleepers while the 55 baggage cars are built throughout the production run.

The guy who writes these articles has inside information at Amtrak. It's also very reliable.

 

[edjbox]

Anyone have any dates on when the first Viewliner IIs are going to be tested and introduced into revenue service?

 

[Acela150]

No.

 

[Nathanael]

FWIW, the last photo I saw of the CAF facility ( http://history.amtrak.com/archives/viewliner-ii-assembly-line-2013 ) I tried to work out how many of each type of car I saw. (Use the "Download full size version" link if you want to play this game.)

I think those weird round ventilators (or whatever they are) have 4 on the baggage cars, 2 on the bag-dorms (on the baggage side), 1 smaller and off-center on the diners, and none on the sleepers. Based on this and the window/door layout, I think I'm looking at the following.

Right side, back to front: 2 bag-dorms, 1 sleeper, 2 baggage

Middle: 1 baggage

Left: 4 diners, 1 unknown

I can't conclude much from this, since some cars are obviously "off camera". What I can conclude is that CAF has already produced more shells than the "2 of each" which were to be used for testing; there are more than 2 diners and more than 2 full baggage cars there. So the production line is moving right along even before the first cars are tested.

 

[Ryan]

Hopefully the testing doesn't turn up any issues that would require rework on those cars.

 

[7deuceman]

If you've not already seen this information, here are some things from the Jim Loomis Blog that you might like:

http://takeatrainride.blogspot.com/2013/06/an-advance-look-at-amtraks-new.html

 

[jis]

IMHO what we need now is for those cars to actually start rolling out and into service before they start getting a reputation for being "Factory Queens".

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum

 

[cpamtfan]

It's safe to say we will see Diners and Baggage cars come out first, as that's a need to replace the Heritage cars. Then as those cars get in service, the sleepers will eventually start to be built and put into service in a formal fashion.

 

[afigg]

It's safe to say we will see Diners and Baggage cars come out first, as that's a need to replace the Heritage cars. Then as those cars get in service, the sleepers will eventually start to be built and put into service in a formal fashion.

The planned production was stated by Amtrak last fall. It will the diner cars, then the baggage-dorms, then the sleepers. The baggage cars will be built concurrently on a second production line. However, it has now been over 3 months since the October press event with no official updates since then. With the ACS-64s now entering revenue service, maybe there will be news on testing of the Viewliners II soon.

 

[dlagrua]

Still say that there is an argument for not removing the roomette toilets. I sure hope that those sinks are set high enough. I envision some unsavory individuals urinating in that sink? If people thought that the in-roomette toilets were unsanitary, wait until they see what some slobs can do to the sinks.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Still say that there is an argument for not removing the roomette toilets. I sure hope that those sinks are set high enough. I envision some unsavory individuals urinating in that sink? If people thought that the in-roomette toilets were unsanitary, wait until they see what some slobs can do to the sinks.

This sounds like a Male Only Possibility!

 

[Welcome_to_the_21stCentury]

Still say that there is an argument for not removing the roomette toilets. I sure hope that those sinks are set high enough. I envision some unsavory individuals urinating in that sink? If people thought that the in-roomette toilets were unsanitary, wait until they see what some slobs can do to the sinks.

Unfortunately, sanity isn't ever an argument that gets very far in Amtrak's board room. Mr. Hilton , Mr. Hyatt, and Mr. Marriott learned in the last century, overnight guests will always want their own private facilities, instead of sharing one down the hall.

Do the Viewliner II roomettes still have the (fold out) sink? I thought all the roomette plumbing was gone.

 

[jis]

Do the Viewliner II roomettes still have the (fold out) sink? I thought all the roomette plumbing was gone.

They still have the sink. And BTW in survey after survey the folks that travel in Sleepers expressed a preference for no commode in the roomettes. So it is hard to blame this one on Amtrak Management Mr. Hilton and Mr. Hyatt notwithstanding. Indeed many have openly said here and elsewhere that they refuse to travel in roomettes where they have to sleep next to their commode. So go figure. It might be a generational thing.

 

[dlagrua]

Do the Viewliner II roomettes still have the (fold out) sink? I thought all the roomette plumbing was gone.

They still have the sink. And BTW in survey after survey the folks that travel in Sleepers expressed a preference for no commode in the roomettes. So it is hard to blame this one on Amtrak Management Mr. Hilton and Mr. Hyatt notwithstanding. Indeed many have openly said here and elsewhere that they refuse to travel in roomettes where they have to sleep next to their commode. So go figure. It might be a generational thing.

Heed my words; wait until the sink and the rug start smelling like urinals, then we will see how well passengers like the arrangement. IMO, the toilet with a sealed lid is the way to go.

 

[Blackwolf]

My $0.02 on this bizarre accusation that people will be using the sink as a commode is this:

Pee in the sink = forfeiture of your travel rights aboard Amtrak. No refund. Off the train at the earliest opportunity. Watch the markers fade away.

Really, though? The toilets should never have been put into the Viewliner roomettes in the first place. They are a long time overdue to be removed. And good riddance! If you want the use of your own private facility, book a Bedroom.

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

My $0.02 on this bizarre accusation that people will be using the sink as a commode is this:

Pee in the sink = forfeiture of your travel rights aboard Amtrak. No refund. Off the train at the earliest opportunity. Watch the markers fade away.

I would hope this doesn't become a problem. After all there is no commode in the Superliner Roomette and folks are good about making the trek to the restroom, although you do have a few more to chose from. Hopefully there won't be a long line in the Viewliner 2 :unsure: :angry2: :giggle:

 

[rickycourtney]

Still say that there is an argument for not removing the roomette toilets. I sure hope that those sinks are set high enough. I envision some unsavory individuals urinating in that sink? If people thought that the in-roomette toilets were unsanitary, wait until they see what some slobs can do to the sinks.

Having been inside a prototype Viewliner I can tell you... This won't be possible unless you have some awesome body contortion skills. Plus you'd be so uncomfortable... you'd rather just walk 20 steps to the real bathroom.

Heed my words; wait until the sink and the rug start smelling like urinals, then we will see how well passengers like the arrangement. IMO, the toilet with a sealed lid is the way to go.

I disagree completely. Superliner roomettes have not had toilets for over 30 years and they don't smell like urinals.
Now can we get back to a real discussion... Not gross bathroom talk.

 

[MattW]

Well, at risk of carrying this topic further than it needs, the Superliner roomettes also don't have sinks. Frankly, I'm puzzled by the sinks still being included. I thought part of the argument against the roomette toilets was the complex plumbing. While I'm sure it's slightly reduced by not having both a toilet and sink, I don't see the need for a sink without a toilet.

 

[jis]

Well, at risk of carrying this topic further than it needs, the Superliner roomettes also don't have sinks. Frankly, I'm puzzled by the sinks still being included. I thought part of the argument against the roomette toilets was the complex plumbing. While I'm sure it's slightly reduced by not having both a toilet and sink, I don't see the need for a sink without a toilet.

Huh? What on earth does toilet have to do with sink? :huh: Sorry I don't get it. :blink:

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Well, at risk of carrying this topic further than it needs, the Superliner roomettes also don't have sinks. Frankly, I'm puzzled by the sinks still being included. I thought part of the argument against the roomette toilets was the complex plumbing. While I'm sure it's slightly reduced by not having both a toilet and sink, I don't see the need for a sink without a toilet.

To make the limited bathrooms available to those who need to use a toilet by letting me wash up in my roomette, perhaps.

 

[cpamtfan]

Plumbing. And I hope people wash up after they do their business in the bathroom..IN the bathroom. I mean lets get real here, there are like 10 roomettes, so at MAX you will have 20 adults for two bathrooms. I doubt there will be 20 person lines except if one or two are out.

 

[MattW]

Well, at risk of carrying this topic further than it needs, the Superliner roomettes also don't have sinks. Frankly, I'm puzzled by the sinks still being included. I thought part of the argument against the roomette toilets was the complex plumbing. While I'm sure it's slightly reduced by not having both a toilet and sink, I don't see the need for a sink without a toilet.

Huh? What on earth does toilet have to do with sink? :huh: Sorry I don't get it. :blink:

Well, from a technical standpoint, isn't there some common plumbing? Both need a water supply, both need a drain connection. Eliminate one and sure you've eliminated half the plumbing, but you still have the same maintenance issues, just not as many.

From a human standpoint, I can't think of anything a sink in your room can be used for, that the sink in the public bathroom can't. Maybe you could make the argument of people washing their hands headed to the diner without having to wait for the public bathroom, but it's thin, frankly. Then there's the potable water angle, but do these sinks even have a dispenser of potable water?