Viewliner Diner

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Amtrak Watcher

Amtrak Watcher

Lead Service Attendant
Joined
Oct 1, 2002
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482
Location
Texas
I am only a few days away from my first experience on Viewliner equipment: taking the Lake Shore Limited to New York on a business trip. (Yes, I’m excited.) As someone with lots and lots of Superliner experience, I’m having a hard time imagining a diner without a second floor. How is a Viewliner Diner configured?
 
I'm not fully sure, but I think it’s like the upper-level of the Superliner, except with a dinning crew in the middle, but I’m not fully sure. I hope you have a nice trip! :) :) :) :) :)
 
There is only one Viewliner diner but it is in storage. Single level dining cars are Heritage Fleet Cars. They are not like Superliner diners really. The kitchen area is in one end of the car and the other area there is the dining room. There is a narrow hallway between the kitchen wall and the outside car wall for passage through the car. Depending on if you get a recently rebuilt car or an older car you will either have a beautiful car or a not so great car. Either way the diner will be quite different then a Superliner diner.
 
Ok, I wasn't sure about it, and I think I did here that the only Viewliner Diner was stored, but why? Overhaul? Derailment? Not Needed? I wish I knew what happened to it. :blink:
 
amtrakadirondack said:
Ok, I wasn't sure about it, and I think I did here that the only Viewliner Diner was stored, but why? Overhaul? Derailment? Not Needed? I wish I knew what happened to it. :blink:
Click to expand...
It was very hard for the crew to work in and with added electrical and AC problems , the car was taken out of service. However, the bright interior was quite nice.
 
All the Single Level Diners are needed right now. The Viewliner Deiner had to be stored (along with the prototype Sleepers) because of their oddball nature. The prototypes do not use standard parts, and are therefore expensive to repair, and difficult to find parts for. This article by Doug Riddell (an Amtrak Engineer) does a very good job explaining 8400's nature.
 
Thanks, Viewliner, for the good site reference for diner pictures.

So, if I understand correctly, Amtrak customers will encounter only two types of diners: the Superliner and the Heritage (old or rebuilt)? Is this correct?
 
Amtrak Watcher said:
Thanks, Viewliner, for the good site reference for diner pictures.
So, if I understand correctly, Amtrak customers will encounter only two types of diners: the Superliner and the Heritage (old or rebuilt)? Is this correct?
Click to expand...
You're Welcome, and yes. :)
 
Amtrak Watcher, just a brief historical reference, hope you don't mind. You seem to have had the comparatively unique experience of learning your railroading through double deck superliners. They are thrilling. But do keep in mind that that concept is relatively new as railroading goes. The single level equipment, whether Viewliner, Heritage or anything else, has been the historical norm for passenger equipment. (I am speaking especially of long -distance trains, not really getting into the commuter train business , here).

Full double deck trains started with just one pre-Amtrak train (Santa Fe's El Capitan) about 1955, then they ordered some more high-levels about 1962, I thnk. Amtrak started the Superliner program in the 80's(and retained some of the Santa Fe cars). Otherwise, pretty much everything else has been single level--the historical norm. Of course there were dome cars(started in the late 40's) which have sort of a "camel hump" effect in the middle of the car, though some domes were larger. . Anyway, enjoy the single level equipment. It is more the national norm, though it may take some getting used to.

Tunnel clearances and such have been the reason some places cannot have superliner , or domes or any such equipment at some places in the East. That is why they have blossomed and grown on western routes, more so. At one time high level trains could not operate through Washington Union Station but they can now, with the Capitol Limited, and at times with the Cardinal. ALso, at one time, very distant past, they could not operate through Jacksonville.
 
I had said I was speaking just of long distance trains, not commuter trains in the above note.....but actually I believe commuter trains started going double deck about 1955, also.....it is possible the Chicago and North Western, or perhaps Southern Pacific from SF to San Jose, were among the first commuter operations to go double deck.
 
Bill Haithcoat:

Thanks for the interesting history. Actually, I grew up with passenger train service in France and Germany, which was all single-level stuff. I recall flying to the U.S. (always on a Super Constellation – the aircraft with three tails) and riding single-level pre-Amtrak U.S. trains. There was an electric B-and-O train between New York and Washington, D.C., and another train between San Antonio and Chicago. For some reason, I remember lots of the details about the B-and-O rides, including the over-sized metal basket a man came through the crowded coaches with selling Hershey bars and other stuff. I only remember the Hershey bars, because we could not get them in Europe. I don’t remember the details of the train in Texas except that it was always crowded, and there were green curtains separating the beds from the isle. There was some kind of convertible coach rather than a proper sleeper.

Anyway, I moved here to the U.S. in 1995 and immediately started using the Amtrak service, because trains are the default means of travel in Europe. It just seemed natural to me. It took some mental adjustments for me to understand that a country as big, rich, and powerful as the U.S. had relatively few transportations choices. Indeed, the lack of choice seems to have actually diminished mobility of many Americans over the years; strange for a country that depends on personal mobility so much. I read with interest about the many inter-city rail services that seemed to have disappeared by 1945. In fact, there was a comprehensive, electric, inter-city service here in the Dallas area that went from the Oklahoma border all the way down to Waco with hourly service almost 15 hours a day. The last train stopped running in 1948. Now, many big cities in the U.S. are re-creating rail systems that disappeared more than 50 years ago at enormous cost.
 
Amtrak Watcher--I enjoyed your extremely detailed answer back to me. I will try to figure out over the weekend what train you might have taken from Chicago to San Antonio.(The Texas Eagle, at that time, originated in St. Louis, not Chicago) You did not by any chance ride B&O to St. Louis and go to Texas from there, did you? The Texas Eagle did have a through sleeper or two from Chicago to certain Texas points...perhaps that is what you rode...I am curious and will look into that further.

You mention some kind of car converted into a sleeper. I suspect you mean the "section accommodation", i.e, and upper/lower berth semi-private, enclosed only by a green curtain, as you remember. That was a regular sleeper also....the old kind. Rooms and sections both were common back then.
 
Bill Haithcoat:

No, I did not go to St. Louis from the east coast by train. I don't remember how my family got to Texas/Illinois from New York, which probably means it was some kind boring method for me - probably be car. As for the Texas train, I remember (going north) it stopped for a long time in the middle of the night at Newport, Arkansas, and it stopped late the following afternoon in Urbana, Illinois. I don't remember if I changed trains in St. Louis, but suspect there was some kind of through-car arrangement you describe.

As for the B&O train between New York and Washington, I further remember that the locomotive freightened me, because of its dark (almost black) color and the noise it made in the stations. I also remember that it was a strange looking thing in which the operator sat in a kind of bumb right in the middle of the machine rather than near one of the ends. This seemed very strange to me. I remember it was electric, because my father pointed out the mechanisms, which reminded me of the German trains back home.
 
Amtrak Watcher...I have a lot of old timetables(plenty of 50's and a few 40's) and tried to retrace your San Antonio to Chicago trip over the weekend. I sort of got you from Texas to St. Louis on Missouri Pacific, either the Texas Eagle or the one it replaced,the Sunshine Special. However, north of St. Lousi(assuming you went through St. Louis) the trains to Urbana seemed to be en route to Detorit rather than Chicago. So, I did not quite make it.

The MoPac train from Texas to Chicago did stop at Newport, Ark. but not for long.....however....who knows....you could have had some kind of slow order, or some mechanical reason for the very long stop which you remember.
 
battalion51 Posted on Wed, May 21, 2003, 03:12 PM

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All the Single Level Diners are needed right now. The Viewliner Deiner had to be stored (along with the prototype Sleepers) because of their oddball nature. The prototypes do not use standard parts, and are therefore expensive to repair, and difficult to find parts for. This article by Doug Riddell (an Amtrak Engineer) does a very good job explaining 8400's nature.

thats my dad :)
 
im on the extra board, but i have been catching 89/90 washington to florence and 29/30 washington to pittsburgh the most.(was on 90 yesterday, 5/26/03. we came into washington 2 hours EARLY!!!)

washington south covers 19/20, 29/30, 50/51, 77/76, 79/80, 89/90, 91/92, 94/95, 97/98, and a few other ie. 99, 83,84, 85, 86, 93, 195, 88, also, on rare ocasion will cover the Auto Train road job(lorton to florence), and the lorton yard job. i also cover any special moves south(or west) of washington ie. AOE, Congressinal Specials, Tropicana Express, Myersdale Maple Fest...

ryan
 
I don't understand how 90 could have come into WAS 2 hours early. I can understand 2 hrs. early in NYC(I guess) since it can leave early at all those stops from Alexandria northward(stops only to discharge)....but not WAS. What gives?
 
Bill Haithcoat:

I made the San Antonio-to-Chicago trip with my parents several times as a child, and remember that the northbound train always stopped for what seemed like a long time in the middle of the night in Newport, Arkansas. Many people got off the train (weather permitting) to watch the steam engines roaming around the large rail yard in the darkness. I remember the Urbana, Illinois stop only because I could not say the name properly and people laughed at me. Other than the green curtains enclosing the beds at night, that’s all I remember about the Texas train. I don’t recall ever being in a diner on any pre-Amtrak train, but distinctly remember happy times in uncrowded diners on many European trains as a child. From what my father told me before he died, I suspect they were not very common, or they were expensive or not very good.
 
bill, everybody thought we were on the temporary re-route schedule that shows in to washington @ 1710. however due to the holiday we didnot run the re-route and arrived in washington @1500. this created a chaos in washington due to the fact that the outbound crews job didnt sign up until 1630.

off topic but, noticed #29 had that re-built transition sleeper in its consist yesterday(monday). i have already had the 32032 sleeper on 29/30, and i must say, A+ job on this car! you would never know this car was 20+ years old!

have a safe day everyday

ryan :)
 
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