Via's Canadian--Questions

[MontanaJim]

Ive been thinking of maybe travelling on it in January or maybe next summer. Does it have a dome car? Can coach passengers use it? Is the single level or like the Amtrak superliners? Is it worth the cost--according to VIA's website, a coach ticket costs around $400.00. Is it worth it? How does this train compare to Amtrak trains? Thanks for any info you can give.

 

[Amtrak OBS Gone Freight]

If you will, give a us a little more info pertaining to when you are gonna go and how far you are traveling. As far as to answer some of your questions, it is a single level train, has a dome car (had three domes on my trip), and is well worth the price. Remember the price you get off the VIA website will be in Canadian dollars not US. Pay for your trip with a credit card, and you should get the best exchange rate regarding the currency. I will most importantly suggest to you this; if you are able to do so travel "Silver and Blue" class (first class sleeper) to get the full enjoyment of the train. A trip in the winter as well as a trip in the summer seasons is needed to really enjoy the scenery from this train. I have done my summer trip, and my wintertime trip at sometime in the future as time permits. I really liked this train when I was on it this last summer.

I am an Amtrak employee, and I don't usually ride trains on vacation unless I have the need to get somewhere with that transportation option. But I do wanna see all the routes I can at least once. Got many more Amtrak routes to go, but I will say the "Canadian" single level equipment is by far some of the BEST and well kept I have ever ridden, and I miss the days of when Amtrak single level trains such as the "Silver Service" trains used that type of equipment! The Superliner equipment is another type of equipment unique in itself and really nothing can compete with it in my opinion. I will let the others here in the forums post the other info about the "Canadian" regarding their experiences. Anyway about it, just be sure to include it in your travel plans at least once in your life if trains is one of your things! OBS...

 

[MrFSS]

If you are interested, here are pictures from my Canadian trip in May of this year (along with Rocky Mountaineer pictures).

Via Canadian Pictures

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

If you travel coach, you will not be able to walk the full length of the train. There are a couple of coaches up front, followed by a coffee shop dome car. You get your meals in there, not in the diner. I think they are almost diner quality but not quite. But you get a dome alright, but just the first dome. You can't go to rear and get the combination observation car with dome car.

 

[MontanaJim]

nice pictures. Now the dome car that coach passengers can use, are there plent of seats for most people to use? Id like to spend many hours in the dome car. Approximately how much is the trip in coach?

 

[MontanaJim]

also, would you guys rate the canadian as a better trip then the California Zephyr? I have a small budget and cant do both.

 

[MrFSS]

Nice pictures

Thanks - it was a nice trip.

Now the dome car that coach passengers can use, are there plent of seats for most people to use? Id like to spend many hours in the dome car. Approximately how much is the trip in coach?

That one dome car the coach passengers can use only has about 26-30 seats. (I didn't count them) and there may be as many as 150 coach passengers wanting to sit in them.

On our trip I did walk up to the coach dome as I wanted to see every one of them on the train. It was packed with people. The dome that was next to our sleeper car was full sometimes, but usually you could get a seat.

When I walked 20 cars to the rear to the Park car dome, it was almost empty!

You can go to Via's website and do prices from whatever start and stop points you want to see the prices.

 

[MontanaJim]

sounds like the coach passengers have to fight for a seat in the dome...

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

Montana Jim---as originally constructed a standard dome both in the U.S and in Canada had 24 seats. So far as I noticed these still do.

Sorry I can't answer any more of your questions--I am on my way out the door for a three day weekend.

Enjoy your trip whatever. Really hard to compare the two. Except you may find better more consistent on board service in Canada. Wish you could find the money for a sleeper. BIll

 

[MontanaJim]

Why is the canadian rated so much better than any amtrak train, particularily the California Zephyr?

I always travel coach (cant afford the outrageous sleeper fares since i am a single passenger). The Canadian, i have noticed, is more expensive than any amtrak train. Is everything on the Canadian simply better? Ie, service, equipment, scenery, etc?

What are the coach cars on the Canadian like? Are they anything similar to the heritage cars Amtrak used to use?

The Dome definitely intrigues me. But since ive heard that the average 150 coach passengers on the canadian have to fight over the 24 seats in the coach dorm, its appeal declines.

I havent taken the zephyr either, but plan to in December. Ive been on every other major Amtrak train route except the Lake Shore Limited.

 

[MrFSS]

MontanaJim - from what start point to what stop point are you thinking about traveling on The Canadian? It is a four day trip (3 nights) from Toronto - Vancouver, or reverse. That adds to the cost. Also, their webpage is in Canadian Dollars which, last time I looked is about 75-80 cents US , so deduct 20% for the price in US dolaars.

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

montana JIm, the coaches on the Canadian will probalbly seat either 44 or 48, so there were, as I recall, three coaches on the train, at least in the crowded season. So it is about 138 passengers(if full) fighting for 24 seats.While I admit, as a sleeping car passenger I had the full run of the train, I think I would not worry too much about getting seats in the dome. The scenery changes gradually, people come and go all the time from the dome just as they do from superliner lounges. Don't let that be a problem. Keep in mind that many of the people riding in coach are probably riding for real needs , short haul, not necessarily viewing the scenery. They may see it every day, after all.

And yes, the coaches are very much from the same generation as those which Amtrak eventually labeled as"heritage". The original Canadian was built in 1954-55 and much of that is still in use today, well refurbished.

I think you might regret not riding the Canadian--I would say sample it while you can. I do not know how much longer than can keep maintaining it.

I know you really want to know which is better---that is hard to say---if you read my response to the post on here called "Amfleet vs. Heritage.' you will have a sample of my mixed thoughts.

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

Montanajim, in re-reading earlier parts of this post, I am struck by comparing the CZ with the Canadian. It just so happens that when the original pre-Amtrak CZ was built(1949), it and the Canadian1954-55, were very,very,very similar. All unpainted silver stainless steel, lots of domes, rounded rear end observation car, similar scenery, and each extremely well advertised, both for the scenery and the equipment itself. So very similar. Just a historical note, FWIW.

Today's Canadian, is , in fact, be very similar to the original CZ.

Bottom line, much of what you hear about scenery is subjective; much of what you hear about liking or dislking various eqiupment is subjective. But I would encourage any railfan to try as many different trips as possible. I can't see how you would ever regret that.

 

[MontanaJim]

Thanks for the info, Bill.

I was wondering, if i take this train, should i make sure to take it in the summer to get as much daylight as possible? Or does the train go through the most scenic parts during daylight at all times of the year? should one go eastbound or westbound?

I might shorten the trip to vancouver-winnipeg to save costs (if i decide to do it).

 

[MontanaJim]

Sorry to belabor the issue, but a couple more questions:

are there any station stops along the way that are interesting and allows one to explore the station, get a breath of fresh air, etc? is the dome car open 24hrs? I like travelling trains without taking a layover, but love the refueling stops Amtrak provides...

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

The dome is open 24 hours. It is especially nice at night, just to see the train going around curves in the dark. You will be so near the locomotive, that should be neat.

There are several long station stops. I do not have a VIA timetable at work with me but it is much like long distance Amtrak trains in that regard. I especially liked the long stop at Jasper, gateway to the Rockies. Small town, but "cute", very touristsy, looks like something from Bavaria. Other stops Winnepeg, etc, can't recall just now.

I do not know the route intimately enough to answer some of your more specific questions but I guess with more daylight in the summer that would be better. I have been on all the routes you are thinking about,(EB,CZ, Canada,etc) but it's not like they were days apart from each other....so hard to remember the details and make an intelligent comparison. I actually took a similar Canada trip 33 years ago but the detaisl are quite fuzzy.

Be sure, if I have not already pointed this out to you, don't remember, but go to the "trip reports" section of this forum and read on other people's Canadian adventures. There are two posts in there by me, around late October early November 2004.

 

[MontanaJim]

would anyone stop me if i stayed in the dome 80 percent of the time? I feel thats where I would want to be on this train.

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

I don't think there would be any problem.

Do keep in mind that the mountain scenery westbound begins around Jasper. I would not want you to expect the whole l thing to be Rockies.

 

[MontanaJim]

ill probably buy the north american rail pass in 2007 and do the canadian then. for this christmas, ill stick with the california zephyr and empire builder on my trip from dc to montana and back.

does anyone know if thruway buses are included with rail passes?

 

[NS VIA FAN]

Ive been thinking of maybe travelling on it in January or maybe next summer. Does it have a dome car?

Yes VIA's Canadian has a Dome Car and the winter is a great time to travel.

http://www.snowtraintojasper.com

Nice to site back in the dome on a moon-lit night just after a fresh snow fall.

 

[trainboy325]

Here's a little hint that a lot of non-Canadian residents forget about when booking a trip on VIA Rail Canada. If you by tickets directly from VIA or a Canadian travel agency, you have to pay GST and PST on the total rail fare (national and provincial sales tax). If you make your reservation through a travel agent, especially ones that focus on rail travel (Accent on Travel, Klamath Falls, OR as an example), they can get your rail fare without tax. If you try to get the international tourist tax refund when exiting Canada, you won't be able to get it back as the Canadian tax authority doesn't refund sales taxes on food, lodging, transportation, tours, gasoline, etc. The tax refund is specifically targeted for international shoppers to encourage gift shop sales. Also note that the total pretax value per receipt has to be CAD50.00 or more in order to send in for the GST and PST refund.

As stated by others on this post, the VIA's Canadian is the best passenger train in North America. NO EXCEPTION. Some my argue it's the American Orient Express. The AOE is a superior rail experience, but the Canadain is like riding the great American trains that have long since vanished after the 1960s.

 

[MontanaJim]

wont the travel agent charge a fee for his or her services?

 

[AlanB]

If you try to get the international tourist tax refund when exiting Canada, you won't be able to get it back as the Canadian tax authority doesn't refund sales taxes on food, lodging, transportation, tours, gasoline, etc.

I can't speak to the lodging tax for being on a train in a room overnight, although I'm not sure that they consider that lodging. I think it is just considered transportation, so I'm not sure if a travel agent can get that back for you or avoid it. I've never tried, so I can't say for sure.

However it is false to say that one cannot get a refund on the GST portion of any nights spent in a normal hotel within Canada. I routinely collect my GST refund on my hotel lodging in Canada. I collected 96 bucks CDN just this past August as I crossed the border, having spent over a week in Canada. In the last year, I've collected well over $300 CDN on GST lodging refunds.

You are correct that there is no GST refund on food, tours, & gasoline.

There is no PST tax charged on train tickets.

More info on filing for refunds and what qualifies can be found here on the Canadian Revenue Agency's website.

 

[AlanB]

wont the travel agent charge a fee for his or her services?

I would think so. The question would be, which is higher the fee or the tax. That assumes that they can actually avoid charging you the tax.

According to the official site that I linked to above, if you are part of a package tour, then you can get 1/2 of the GST back.

 

[trainboy325]

That's interesting about lodging GST refunds as the tax authority representative at the Canadian consulate in Orlando, FL said that lodging taxes aren't refunded and the form I received when exiting Canada (Vancouver's Central Pacific Station) in July of this year had an X over the lodging symbol, along with gas, food, etc. I know in 2001 I received a refund for lodging, but was told that refund was eliminated after a change in a Canadian tax law. Better call Ottawa to get a clear answer on this! I think I got a raw deal this year with the lodging tax refund if the info on the tax link is up-to-date.

As for the travel agent fee, it's a judgment call. I've found personally that the fee is always cheaper than the total tax collected on VIA tickets (I usually travel on the Canadian Silver & Blue Class all the way round trip), as the rail and accomodation fee is considered transportation and subject to GST. In addition, as AlanB mentioned, the "tax exemption" is actually when the travel agent books VIA tickets through a "package company" like Brewster, which only can be done through a travel agent or tour package company specialist (which collect commissions).

I did get charged PST on VIA tickets on the Enterprise in May 2001 by Quebec, which is the only province to do this to my knowledge. Maybe this was a billing error on the ticket voucher, but because of Quebec's nationalist movement and self-ruling attitude, I think they like to do whatever they want regardless of any federal law or policy. <_<