Vermonter

[mlhughes0522]

With the reroute happening that made me do some thinking.

It is about time to make some other changes to the schedule and add another train from VT to Springfield,Ma

With add the add train give people of Vermont more options and could get better ridership numbers.

Vermonter/Vermonter EXPRESS

Daily 55. 56. 57. 54.

St. Albans,VT. 7:28a12:59p 3:28p 8:58p

Burlington - Essex Jct,VT. 7:57a 12:23p 3:57p 8:23p

Waterbury - Stowe,VT. 8:22a 12:00p 4:22p 8:00p

Montpelier - Barre,VT. 8:35a 11:42a 4:35p 7:42p

Randolph,VT. 9:08a 11:10a 5:08p 7:10p

White River Jct,VT. 9:45a.10:39a 5:45p 6:39p

Windsor - Mt. Ascutney,VT.10:14a 10:10a 6:14p 6:10p

Claremont,NH. 10:24a 10:00a 6:24p 6:00p

Bellows Falls,VT. 10:45a 9:29a 6:45p 5:29p

Brattleboro,VT. 11:16a 8:58a 7:16p 4:58p

Greenfield,MA. 11:48a 8:22a 7:48p 4:22p

Northampton,Ma 12:10p 8:00a 8:10p 4:00p

(Holyoke) MA. 12:40p 7:30a 8:40p 3:30p

Springfield,MA 1:15/1:30p 7:00a 9:15p 2:47/3:00p

Windsor Locks,CT. 1:52p ------- -------- 2:25p

Hartford,CT. 2:12p ------- -------- 2:05p

Berlin,CT. 2:27p ------- -------- 1:50p

Meriden,CT. 2:38p ------- -------- 1:31p

Wallingford,CT. 2:47p ------- -------- 1:20p

New Haven,CT. 3:07/3:25p ------- -------- 12:40/1:00p

Bridgeport,CT. 4:07p ------- -------- 12:16p

Stamford,CT. 4:35p ------ -------- 11:48a

New York,NY. 5:35/5:50p ------- -------- 10:43/11:00a

Newark,NJ. 6:13p ------- -------- 10:25a

Trenton,NJ. 6:50p ------- -------- 9:48a

Philadelphia,PA 7:10p ------- -------- 9:20a

Wilmington,DE. 7:32p ------- -------- 8:56a

Baltimore,MD. 8:20p ------- -------- 8:12a

New Carrollton,DC. 8:43p ------- -------- 7:39a

Washington,DC. 8:59p ------- -------- 7:30a

 

[afigg]

With the reroute happening that made me do some thinking.

It is about time to make some other changes to the schedule and add another train from VT to Springfield,Ma

With add the add train give people of Vermont more options and could get better ridership numbers.

Vermonter/Vermonter EXPRESS

Daily 55. 56. 57. 54.

For the record, VT has stated that it wants to run at least 2 trains a day over the Vermonter route north of MA. But any service frequency expansion is tied to waiting for the service extension to Montreal to happen. Extending the Vermonter to MTR should significantly boost ridership north of SPG, especially with turnover traffic for MTR to VT/MA sales and VT/MA to CT/NEC sales. Really boosts revenue if you can sell the same seat twice or more over a daily route.
Your proposed St. Albans to SPG train would lose a lot of money, because SPG is not a major destination city for people getting on the train in VT. A St. Albans to New Haven service would be more viable because it reaches Hartford and provides connections to the NEC.

That said, the second daily service through VT is more likely to be provided by future Boston to Montreal train. It is in the MassDOT planning for the corridor, although it is more of a tentative long range goal, not one that is solidly set. A Vermonter that has a 7 to 8 AM departure from MTR followed by a MTR-BOS train departing late morning or mid-day* would provide a productive twice a day service and choices for destination. The MTR-BOS train could provide connections to a SPG shuttle or a Regional for those in VT wanting a later in the day departure for a trip to NYC.

* With an Adirondack departure to NYP sandwiched in between.

 

[neroden]

Vermont's rail priorities seem to be, roughly in this order:

(1) Ethan Allen to Burlington

(2) Vermonter to Montreal

(3) Ethan Allen or something to *Bennington*

(4) additional frequencies

They're working really hard on #1 and #2 right now, and internal "regional equity" political issues in the state mean that they're going to be obliged to work on #3 after that. I wouldn't expect additional frequencies before that unless the finances of the trains get so good that they have unexpected extra money, like happened in Virginia.

 

[Cornelia Daniel]

If SPG means Springfield, it will be a destination city once the casino is finished.

 

[jis]

All cities that build casinos fervently hope so. Some pan out, others don;t. We'll see.

 

[afigg]

If SPG means Springfield, it will be a destination city once the casino is finished.

From VT, only for those willing to spend a night in Springfield to visit the casino. The Vermonter schedule will not allow for a day trip to Springfield. I doubt that the casino in Springfield will generate much passenger traffic on the Vermonter. Even a second train, running Boston to Montreal, would be difficult to schedule to support day trips to SPG from VT given the end to endpoint trip times.

The commuter/local service that MA is planning to run from SPG to Greenfield should allow for day trips to the casino, so the commuter trains may get some casino destination business for trips from Greenfield and Northampton.

 

[Bradenmeridian]

Looking at your schedule reminded me how nice it would be for those of us who ride to/from VT if they could ever be convinced to skip the intermediate stops between Hartford and New Haven. Once they institute regular service as CT DOT is planning, it would sure go a long way to improve the running times VT - NYC, etc. Here's a question: on a typical 79 mph track, how many minutes does an Amtrak train lose making a minor station stop in a small town compared to running straight through at speed?

thanks

b

t

 

[afigg]

Looking at your schedule reminded me how nice it would be for those of us who ride to/from VT if they could ever be convinced to skip the intermediate stops between Hartford and New Haven. Once they institute regular service as CT DOT is planning, it would sure go a long way to improve the running times VT - NYC, etc. Here's a question: on a typical 79 mph track, how many minutes does an Amtrak train lose making a minor station stop in a small town compared to running straight through at speed?

All of the stations south of Windsor are getting high level platforms. That will reduce the station dwell time and allow some time & padding to be trimmed from the Vermonter and Springfield Regional schedules. Once the commuter service is running, one or two of the smaller stops in CT may get dropped from the Vermonter schedule. The plan, BTW, is to upgrade the tracks from NHV to SPG to 110 mph tracks, although I don't know if that will be achieved with the current funding available. With the close spacing of the stations, there is not going to be much 100 to 110 mph running on the NHV-SPG corridor anyway.

The trip time from VT to New Haven is going to be reduced. The re-route in MA may cut up to 40 minutes or more from the schedule when the track, signal, and crossing upgrades are complete. Have not seen a reliable number for how much time may be cut on the NHV-SPG corridor by the end of 2016 or 2017.

 

[Bradenmeridian]

Thanks, afigg. As you say it, I'm surprised that as capital improvements are proposed and funding is applied for, it isn't expected that Amtrak - or Mass DOT, or whoever - create a mock-up of a best case scenario timetable so affected travelers (and congressmen) can see what they get for the project. And a simple "before/after" chart of travel times between stations - this is how long it takes from your station to station x now, and how long it will take after completion of upgrades. (I'm picturing the old tables on road atlases that showed distances between any combination of selected cities.)

 

[neroden]

FWIW, the stations south of *Hartford* are the ones where high platforms are funded and under construction.

Hartford's high platforms will get delayed because of the plans to reroute the entire line by about a block in the area in conjunction with the highway rebuild / sinking. Probably won't get done until then.

Windsor and Windsor Locks are going to have to get high level platforms very soon as well, probably before Hartford (they're very high on the ADA priority list, and I think CT has done preliminary design work); they just haven't put the funding together.

Springfield is also going to get high platforms though probably not on every track (because, dammit, CSX). I think there's room to make a pair of freight bypass tracks and make all the platforms high platforms, but the rumors I've heard do not indicate that they will do this. :-(

 

[Bradenmeridian]

Does there exist an airport shuttle between Bradley and Windsor locks? You'd think this would be part of the master plan.

 

[jis]

The freight main line essentially already bypasses the Springfield station. There is only one freight main track that has a platform face that is low level and can be left that way. There are four platform tracks for which the low level platform can be converted to high level without affecting any freight movement.

 

[battalion51]

Jis, don't forget they're moving back over to the old Springfield Union Station, so there will be some reconfiguring of passenger operations in the next few years. I'd expect a below grade path will probably be used to access most trains like in New Haven.

 

[jis]

True. But I don't think they will be constructing platforms on the freight main line. The Amtrak station is mostly not on the freight main line. It is on the south side. The old north side platforms and loops have been gone for quite a while.

 

[neroden]

The Shuttles and Vermonter will definitely be stopping at high platforms in Springfield. The question is the Lake Shore Limited. There is room to allow the westbound to pull off the freight line onto a siding to the north and to allow the eastbound to pull off the freight line onto a siding to the south, but it's not clear whether they'll actually do it. (I guess they could always do it later.) It would certainly improve the operations of #448/449, and goodness knows they need it.

Also, found something which says that Hartford is getting a mini-high in the interim, prior to the decision being made on the expressway.

 

[afigg]

Does there exist an airport shuttle between Bradley and Windsor locks? You'd think this would be part of the master plan.

The plan for the NHV-SPG corridor does include a airport shuttle bus at Windsor Locks. Whether that will be added in the 2016 service phase, don't know.

 

[afigg]

Jis, don't forget they're moving back over to the old Springfield Union Station, so there will be some reconfiguring of passenger operations in the next few years. I'd expect a below grade path will probably be used to access most trains like in New Haven.

There is a tunnel under the tracks to Lyman street that is to be restored and re-opened to provide access to the platforms as part of the station project. Listed as one of the major items on the Springfield station project page. Lots of demolition and construction photos on the website.

I have a copy of a 2008 service development plan for the station which, BTW. states that there is a second 15' wide tunnel under the tracks that was used for baggage loading and unloading, but has been closed off. Don't appear to be plans to do anything with the narrower tunnel. If I am interpreting the 2008 SDP correctly, the plan back then was not fully formed, but the idea was to build 2 high level platforms up to 1000' long to access 3 tracks. The track diagram for the station shows that it was designed to support a lot more train traffic than it sees today and the physical space and layout is still there to do so.

 

[jis]

Just as I suspected they will do HL on the two south side platforms, none of which have a platform face on any freight line. The next platform over has a platforms face on the eastbound freight mainline, and the other face on a siding. The Lake Shore Limited currently uses this platform. It is possible to get the LSL to use one of the HL platforms with some additional trackwork to enable it to get there from the main and back.

 

[afigg]

Also, found something which says that Hartford is getting a mini-high in the interim, prior to the decision being made on the expressway.

A mini-high for Hartford would meet the ADA requirements, but it could be there for a while. Found a CT I-84 Hartford project page on the plan and study on replacing the I-84 viaduct. They are currently in the alternative analysis phase with 3 basic alternatives being considered. The schedule calls for construction not to start until 2020. Since the alternatives range from expensive to really expensive in different amounts of multi-billions of dollars, I suspect getting the funding together for rebuilding I-84 through Hartford will take some time once the EIS phase has settled on a design alternative.