Vermonter Question

[Ispolkom]

Thanks, George. I really appreciate the depth of knowledge on this forum.

 

[George Harris]

I have been on this train one time, in 1995. At that time the track north of White River Junction did not seem that bad. Speed limit has never been above 59 mph because there are no signals.

I could be wrong, but I think much more of the line is signaled now. There was an article on the NECR in Trains a year or two ago and it mentioned it had something like 13 miles of CTC territory. However, now when I ride I notice signaling much of the way up to WRJ, so I'm not sure if they've signaled more of the line or not. Plus I know that we had to proceed the whole way to WRJ at restricted speed when the signals went out due to a storm - I'm assuming this wouldn't have been an issue if we were in dark territory and were just operating under a track warrant. But my hunch is that even if the line were completely signaled, the track is in no condition to support 79 MPH operation.

George, thanks for the historical background. Very interesting and informative.

Sorry, I was not clear. The joint use portion south of White River Junction is signaled and was at the time of the transfer of the line from B&M to Amtrak to CV. North of WRJ it was not, and so far as I know, they still have not added signals anywhere other than where they existed on the joint use trackage, whether the CV or the B&M owned portion. That was also one of the issues in the takeover in that CV had no signal system otherwise. It appears that even on the CV part of the joint use track the B&M must have done the dispatching so CV had to set up a CTC center somewhere after the change.

I think CV then and NECR now have only one or two freight per direction per day in addition to the Vermonter, so there is no need to go to the expense of installing a signal system. On the other hand, to discontinue an existing signal system requires FRA approval which is unlikely to be given for a line that carries a passenger train so what they have they will probably keep using.

Since the part of the line that has signals follows the Connecticut River, it is for the most part very curvey, so with or without good track conditions, 50 to 60 mph is just about all you can reasonably get out of it. North of there, I really do not recall that much about the curviness of it.

 

[Walt]

I see that again today, the Vermontor (both 55 and 56) are still not running. Does anyone know the real reason why?

BTW, for both northbound and southbound, I swear the train never went over 10 MPH in the track south of WRJ in VT. This section of track, was right on the edge of a cliff many times. I had assumed that they are somewhat worried that the train+track might slide the cliff if they went any faster?

Back a few months ago, the Amtrak Delays website showed that both 55 and 56 typically ran at least a hour late (and occasionally several hours late) for this portion of the VT track. I see, however, that now the delays around down to around just 30 minutes. So, maybe the Vermonter now does 20 MPH instead of 10 MPH?

 

[transit54]

I see that again today, the Vermontor (both 55 and 56) are still not running. Does anyone know the real reason why?
BTW, for both northbound and southbound, I swear the train never went over 10 MPH in the track south of WRJ in VT. This section of track, was right on the edge of a cliff many times. I had assumed that they are somewhat worried that the train+track might slide the cliff if they went any faster?

Back a few months ago, the Amtrak Delays website showed that both 55 and 56 typically ran at least a hour late (and occasionally several hours late) for this portion of the VT track. I see, however, that now the delays around down to around just 30 minutes. So, maybe the Vermonter now does 20 MPH instead of 10 MPH?

Yes, the NECR derailed two cars and then dragged them several miles and it tore up a good amount of track before it tipped over. They're currently in the process of replacing the ties and resetting the track in place.

http://www.rutlandherald.com/apps/pbcs.dll...334/1004/NEWS03

 

[Walt]

Wow, thanks!

I found this piece of the article rather humorous.

White said for the most part passengers took the announcement calmly and, despite long and slow-moving lines, eventually found their way onto the buses.
"We ended up getting into Vermont about an hour early," White explained.

The ciaos of the track being closed, Amtrak having to get buses there, passengers had to stand in long slow-moving lines to get onto those buses, but still, they arrived an hour earlier.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

I see that again today, the Vermontor (both 55 and 56) are still not running. Does anyone know the real reason why?
BTW, for both northbound and southbound, I swear the train never went over 10 MPH in the track south of WRJ in VT. This section of track, was right on the edge of a cliff many times. I had assumed that they are somewhat worried that the train+track might slide the cliff if they went any faster?

Back a few months ago, the Amtrak Delays website showed that both 55 and 56 typically ran at least a hour late (and occasionally several hours late) for this portion of the VT track. I see, however, that now the delays around down to around just 30 minutes. So, maybe the Vermonter now does 20 MPH instead of 10 MPH?

Yes, the NECR derailed two cars and then dragged them several miles and it tore up a good amount of track before it tipped over. They're currently in the process of replacing the ties and resetting the track in place.

http://www.rutlandherald.com/apps/pbcs.dll...334/1004/NEWS03

How did the fools manage that one?

 

[transit54]

How did the fools manage that one?

Exactly what I was thinking.

At some point the state of VT will get around to funding an extension of the Ethan Allen up to Burlington on VRS tracks. I can't wait for the opportunity to bypass the antics of the NECR. Everytime I try and take the train there's something else gone wrong, and all the conductors/stationmasters/etc always tell me, "well, it was never like this until they started cutting back x" with x being whatever caused the latest issue.

Of course, VT has $30 million in federal money to study/implement the extension, and its going to expire this year. Gov Douglas isn't going to release the money and it's all going to revert back to the federal government. I've met the guy several times and he's a nice guy, but I certainly don't agree with him on rail policy. Same guy who killed the Champlain Flyer, which gave Burlington the claim to fame of being the smallest city in the US with commuter rail. My vote will be going elsewhere this fall.

 

[George Harris]

IYes, the NECR derailed two cars and then dragged them several miles and it tore up a good amount of track before it tipped over. They're currently in the process of replacing the ties and resetting the track in place.
http://www.rutlandherald.com/apps/pbcs.dll...334/1004/NEWS03

How did the fools manage that one?

If you only have one or two wheelsets off in a long train, it is amazingly easy. Happens quite a bit on secondary lines and usually does not make it into the public view.

 

[Walt]

How did the fools manage that one?

Something very similar happened a few years ago, down in Georgia with a CSX freight train.

Both the Silvers, had to sit in sidings for about 24 hours while they repaired/replaced all the torn up track. Bringing in buses wasn't even thought of, by Amtrak. Amtrak didn't even think about getting a a relief train crew ready.

However, after about 20 hours, Amtrak finally brought in boxed lunches for the coach passengers.

 

[transit54]

And again, yesterday, another NECR derailment:

http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/apps/pb...6/NEWS/80816008

These seem to happen way, way too frequently, and I suspect it's because the track is in such poor shape (or so I was told by an Amtrak conductor). The NECR was the 1995 Shortline Railroad of the year. It's seems to have just been a complete downhill from there.