Vancouver WA to Maricopa AZ

[ceilidh]

Hi

I am new to the group, but I travel by train quite a bit. I am planning a trip from Vancouver WA to Maricopa AZ (station by Phx) I have found out that I can't connect with the train at LAX, (it will have already left by the time the Coast Starlight arrives) so I am going to have to spend two nights in a hotel (one each way) plus add two extra days to my trip because of this. Does anyone know who to write to regarding this? I think that this is ridiculous. I am sure I am not the only person with this problem. Would anyone else like to join me in writing?

Thanks

Ceilidh

 

[guest]

Yes, as a matter of fact I do know who to write or call to help you out. It is your U.S. Senators and Representatives. The Sunset Limited and other Amtrak trains do not run daily because of a lack of funding. Amtrak's ridership is at all time highs and the train cars they do have are being used as much as possible. Amtrak would love to run more trains with more cars but they just don't have the funding needed. Despite the obvious demand for the service that Amtrak provides, Congress refuses to provide it adequate funding. There is a bill in Congress now that would increase the funding somewhat, but it recently has languished in commitees and debates. Please contact your reps and let them know you as a taxpayer see the economic, environmental, and social benefits of increased public transportation such as Amtrak and want them to vote this through.

 

[the_traveler]

The connection between the Coast Starlight (CS) and the Sunset Limited (SL) was lost partly (mostly?) due to the numerous delays from Union Pacific (UP) on these lines. This resulted in the SL changing it departure in LA from very late evening to early afternoon.

BTW - If your destination is the Phoenix area, you still can make a same day connection (although it's involves a few trains and buses). You can take the CS to Sacramento, and get to LA via the San Joaquins and Thruway buses and then connect the same day to the Southwest Chief (SWC) to Flagstaff and take a Thruway bus to Phoenix. The return trip on the SWC connects to the CS in LA.

 

[ceilidh]

Thank you. I agree with you that we should all be writing to our Senators and Representatives about funding for our trains.

My problem isn't the days of the week that the train runs, it is that the Sunset Limited leaves before the Coast Starlight get into to LAX.

Ceilidh

Yes, as a matter of fact I do know who to write or call to help you out. It is your U.S. Senators and Representatives. The Sunset Limited and other Amtrak trains do not run daily because of a lack of funding. Amtrak's ridership is at all time highs and the train cars they do have are being used as much as possible. Amtrak would love to run more trains with more cars but they just don't have the funding needed. Despite the obvious demand for the service that Amtrak provides, Congress refuses to provide it adequate funding. There is a bill in Congress now that would increase the funding somewhat, but it recently has languished in commitees and debates. Please contact your reps and let them know you as a taxpayer see the economic, environmental, and social benefits of increased public transportation such as Amtrak and want them to vote this through.

 

[ceilidh]

Thanks for the information.

I have done this trip before doing what you are suggesting, it is very tiring <grin> From the schedule that I have that isn't even possible to do anymore. The CS arrives in LAX at 9:00 pm and the SWC leaves LAX at 6:45 PM I was hoping to take the Sunset Limited from LAX as it is one of the few trains that I haven't been on, but it leaves LAX at 2:30 PM, so now there doesn't appear to be anyway to make the connection with any of the trains. I am sure you are correct about it beign the Union Pacific that has caused the problem, but do you know who we should be contacting there?

Ceildih

The connection between the Coast Starlight (CS) and the Sunset Limited (SL) was lost partly (mostly?) due to the numerous delays from Union Pacific (UP) on these lines. This resulted in the SL changing it departure in LA from very late evening to early afternoon.
BTW - If your destination is the Phoenix area, you still can make a same day connection (although it's involves a few trains and buses). You can take the CS to Sacramento, and get to LA via the San Joaquins and Thruway buses and then connect the same day to the Southwest Chief (SWC) to Flagstaff and take a Thruway bus to Phoenix. The return trip on the SWC connects to the CS in LA.

 

[George Harris]

When faced with broken eggs, make an omlet. A night in a hotel might feel pretty good after going Vancouver to LA. Is that Vancouver BC or Vacouver WA? Do make a few hours difference. Maybe you want to consider stopping over at Santa Barbara or even San Luis Obispo instead of in LA. There is a train out of SLO at 6:45am that also leaves Santa Barbara at 9:20am that gets to LA at 12:10 noon. If you think that is too close, then stop at Santa Barbara and leave at 6:46am, getting to LA at 9:25am. The first train gurantees the spectacular coast scenery in daylight. If you are a true early bird, there is an Amtrak California bus out of SLO at 4:00am that connects with the early train out of Santa Barbara.

 

[Ham Radio]

When faced with broken eggs, make an omlet. A night in a hotel might feel pretty good after going Vancouver to LA. Is that Vancouver BC or Vacouver WA?

The Topic is Vancouver, WA to Maricopa, AZ. Not British Columbia.

The poster's profile also indicates Vancouver, WA.

 

[ceilidh]

When faced with broken eggs, make an omlet. A night in a hotel might feel pretty good after going Vancouver to LA. Is that Vancouver BC or Vacouver WA? Do make a few hours difference. Maybe you want to consider stopping over at Santa Barbara or even San Luis Obispo instead of in LA. There is a train out of SLO at 6:45am that also leaves Santa Barbara at 9:20am that gets to LA at 12:10 noon. If you think that is too close, then stop at Santa Barbara and leave at 6:46am, getting to LA at 9:25am. The first train gurantees the spectacular coast scenery in daylight. If you are a true early bird, there is an Amtrak California bus out of SLO at 4:00am that connects with the early train out of Santa Barbara.

Thank you, that is probably what I will do, there is a "haunted hotel" in San Luis Obispo that I have wanted to stay in. I have taken the Pacific Surfliner from San Luis Obispo to San Diego and it is a wonderful trip. It just that I didn't really have the extra time or money to spend on two extra hotels and two extra days for my trip. I still would like to know who to write to if anyone knows someone at Southern Pacific that would hopefully someday change the schedule.

Ceilidh

 

[PRR 60]

The Southern Pacific was absorbed by the Union Pacific in 1996. However, passenger train schedules are set by Amtrak with some input from the host railroads, so any issues with scheduling should be addressed to Amtrak.

The issue with a connection between the Starlight and the Sunset is one of timing. Just looking at one direction, to make that connection work Amtrak would have to move up the southbound Starlight by hours which would move the Bay Area arrival to something like 4am. They would also have to push back the eastbound Sunset departure from LAX by hours which would make it's arrival in Tucson and San Antonio similarly inconvenient. It's a matter of balance. Amtrak has probably figured that the potential volume of connecting traffic between the Starlight and Sunset is not worth the potential loss of business that would result from pushing both trains into a less advantageous time slots.

That, of course, is of little comfort to someone who is inconvenienced by the lack of a connection. But, that is pretty much why it is the way it is.

 

[access bob]

The Southern Pacific was absorbed by the Union Pacific in 1996. However, passenger train schedules are set by Amtrak with some input from the host railroads, so any issues with scheduling should be addressed to Amtrak.
The issue with a connection between the Starlight and the Sunset is one of timing. Just looking at one direction, to make that connection work Amtrak would have to move up the southbound Starlight by hours which would move the Bay Area arrival to something like 4am. They would also have to push back the eastbound Sunset departure from LAX by hours which would make it's arrival in Tucson and San Antonio similarly inconvenient. It's a matter of balance. Amtrak has probably figured that the potential volume of connecting traffic between the Starlight and Sunset is not worth the potential loss of business that would result from pushing both trains into a less advantageous time slots.

That, of course, is of little comfort to someone who is inconvenienced by the lack of a connection. But, that is pretty much why it is the way it is.

then there is the Chicago connection factor.

Amtrak tries to get all the lond distance trains into Chicago such that a cross country connection can be made. the last train in from the West is #6 at 3:50PM with the first out to the East 5:45 Cardinal.

and going the other way the last train from the East into Chicago is the Cardinal at 10:35 AM with the first West bound lond distance train #5 leaving at 2:00PM

Amtrak seems to have gotten the no overnights in Chicago connections for the long hauls as their important consideration, and have built schedules out from there. the Shortest connection on the long hauls is an Hour and 50 minutes on the #8>#50 connection

now this is only a factor in the long distance trains, the midwest trains are not included in this scheduling dance. I suspect it mostly works and it Saves Amtrak a bundle in shuttling people or putting em up for missed connections.

Bob.

 

[tubaia]

The Southern Pacific was absorbed by the Union Pacific in 1996. However, passenger train schedules are set by Amtrak with some input from the host railroads, so any issues with scheduling should be addressed to Amtrak.
The issue with a connection between the Starlight and the Sunset is one of timing. Just looking at one direction, to make that connection work Amtrak would have to move up the southbound Starlight by hours which would move the Bay Area arrival to something like 4am. They would also have to push back the eastbound Sunset departure from LAX by hours which would make it's arrival in Tucson and San Antonio similarly inconvenient. It's a matter of balance. Amtrak has probably figured that the potential volume of connecting traffic between the Starlight and Sunset is not worth the potential loss of business that would result from pushing both trains into a less advantageous time slots.

That, of course, is of little comfort to someone who is inconvenienced by the lack of a connection. But, that is pretty much why it is the way it is.

then there is the Chicago connection factor.

Amtrak tries to get all the lond distance trains into Chicago such that a cross country connection can be made. the last train in from the West is #6 at 3:50PM with the first out to the East 5:45 Cardinal.

and going the other way the last train from the East into Chicago is the Cardinal at 10:35 AM with the first West bound lond distance train #5 leaving at 2:00PM

Amtrak seems to have gotten the no overnights in Chicago connections for the long hauls as their important consideration, and have built schedules out from there. the Shortest connection on the long hauls is an Hour and 50 minutes on the #8>#50 connection

now this is only a factor in the long distance trains, the midwest trains are not included in this scheduling dance. I suspect it mostly works and it Saves Amtrak a bundle in shuttling people or putting em up for missed connections.

Bob.

Too bad you can't connect from a western train to another western train through Chicago without an overnight. Somebody wanting to go from St. Paul to Denver has to stay an extra night in Chicago. That's why we need more north/south routes in the western two/thirds of the country.

 

[access bob]

The Southern Pacific was absorbed by the Union Pacific in 1996. However, passenger train schedules are set by Amtrak with some input from the host railroads, so any issues with scheduling should be addressed to Amtrak.
The issue with a connection between the Starlight and the Sunset is one of timing. Just looking at one direction, to make that connection work Amtrak would have to move up the southbound Starlight by hours which would move the Bay Area arrival to something like 4am. They would also have to push back the eastbound Sunset departure from LAX by hours which would make it's arrival in Tucson and San Antonio similarly inconvenient. It's a matter of balance. Amtrak has probably figured that the potential volume of connecting traffic between the Starlight and Sunset is not worth the potential loss of business that would result from pushing both trains into a less advantageous time slots.

That, of course, is of little comfort to someone who is inconvenienced by the lack of a connection. But, that is pretty much why it is the way it is.

then there is the Chicago connection factor.

Amtrak tries to get all the lond distance trains into Chicago such that a cross country connection can be made. the last train in from the West is #6 at 3:50PM with the first out to the East 5:45 Cardinal.

and going the other way the last train from the East into Chicago is the Cardinal at 10:35 AM with the first West bound lond distance train #5 leaving at 2:00PM

Amtrak seems to have gotten the no overnights in Chicago connections for the long hauls as their important consideration, and have built schedules out from there. the Shortest connection on the long hauls is an Hour and 50 minutes on the #8>#50 connection

now this is only a factor in the long distance trains, the midwest trains are not included in this scheduling dance. I suspect it mostly works and it Saves Amtrak a bundle in shuttling people or putting em up for missed connections.

Bob.

Too bad you can't connect from a western train to another western train through Chicago without an overnight. Somebody wanting to go from St. Paul to Denver has to stay an extra night in Chicago. That's why we need more north/south routes in the western two/thirds of the country.

yeah we really do need a true "national network" my list would look like this.

. daily service on the tri weekly trains (including the Sunset to Jacksonville)

. restore the Portland-Salt lake-Las Vegas-LA train

. restore the Broadway limited

. twice daily service on all existing routes approx 12 hours apart.

. relink Toronto - Chicago

. something along the East side of the Front range, ie;El Paso-Albuquerque-Denver-Minneapolis/St Paul (including Wyo & S D)

. close the gap Omaha - KC

. Cinn - St Louis (a NYC-DC-St Louis- KC-Denver-SF mid country coast to coast service)

. also close the gap St Louis - Atlanta - Jacksonville

. in the dream catagory finally the North Station-South Station connection in Boston, and Oakland - San Francisco

that would be my first list

Bob

 

[Joel N. Weber II]

. in the dream catagory finally the North Station-South Station connection in Boston, and Oakland - San Francisco

Compared to the cost of building new high speed intercity routes, those are probably actually pretty cheap, at perhaps a few billion dollars each. 500 route miles of high speed track are probably something like $100 billion or more.

Though I think in the Boston case, the right thing to do may actually be to build 1300' long underground platforms under I-93 at a Central Station with one end right at Aquarium Station on the Blue Line, and the other end about 400-500 feet to the east of Haymarket Station on the Green and Orange Lines, and build another set of 1300' underground platforms at South Station, and let North Station largely become irrelevant (except as a minor Green Line / Orange Line stop, and a place to catch commuter trains after major sports events that are held at the Garden just above the existing surface platforms).

 

[access bob]

. in the dream catagory finally the North Station-South Station connection in Boston, and Oakland - San Francisco

Compared to the cost of building new high speed intercity routes, those are probably actually pretty cheap, at perhaps a few billion dollars each. 500 route miles of high speed track are probably something like $100 billion or more.

Though I think in the Boston case, the right thing to do may actually be to build 1300' long underground platforms under I-93 at a Central Station with one end right at Aquarium Station on the Blue Line, and the other end about 400-500 feet to the east of Haymarket Station on the Green and Orange Lines, and build another set of 1300' underground platforms at South Station, and let North Station largely become irrelevant (except as a minor Green Line / Orange Line stop, and a place to catch commuter trains after major sports events that are held at the Garden just above the existing surface platforms).

unfortunately my understanding is that the current "roughed in" skeleton of a tunnel that was built during the big dig is only for a single track.

I have no idea how they were going to make it actually function since it couldn't get to either station i don't think without a backing move. my suspicion was that they were going to use "Back Bay" for the station stop on any thru trains. it was really a botch job from the get go.

your concept is much more realistic. but I would use Union Station in DC as the example of how it would most likely work. just a couple tracks on a lower level at South Station.

Bob

 

[Joel N. Weber II]

unfortunately my understanding is that the current "roughed in" skeleton of a tunnel that was built during the big dig is only for a single track.I have no idea how they were going to make it actually function since it couldn't get to either station i don't think without a backing move. my suspicion was that they were going to use "Back Bay" for the station stop on any thru trains. it was really a botch job from the get go.

your concept is much more realistic. but I would use Union Station in DC as the example of how it would most likely work. just a couple tracks on a lower level at South Station.

The only extent to which that has any chance of being ``my'' concept is the precise location of the Central Station. There's a study that used to be available from the MBTA website, most of which you can get from archive.org if you find the right URL (it can be extracted from the history of Wikipedia's North South Rail Link article, I think somewhere a year or two ago I may have been the one who removed the broken link); that study contemplates a 1050' platform at North Station, an 800' platform at Central Station just south of the Blue Line, and another platform (1050'?) at South Station, with either 2 or 4 tracks total. I've seen arguments on the Association for Public Transportation email list that one underground station would actually be enough, but I don't really think that's a great way to make transfers to any subway line convenient.

I've also come to the conclusion that if one wants 10-15 minute headways on every commuter rail branch, plus we get lots of intercity high speed rail traffic, eight tracks is probably a good target; I think I have seen a claim that the space under I-93 is only wide enough for four tracks with their platforms, but I see no reason why there couldn't be two levels of tracks. I'm assuming that the surface South Station platforms wouldn't be used except perhaps in rare circumstances where some underground tracks were out of service for whatever reason, because having all the south side trains stop at Central Station seems pretty desireable.

The Fairmount Line apparently was once four tracks, and I think that line should be brought back to four tracks, and once the underground tracks are built, Amtrak trains should be diverted to the non-platform tracks on the Fairmount Line, skipping Back Bay; having all Amtrak trains running through Boston stop at Route 128, South Station, Central Station, and Woburn is probably plenty, and there might even be some who would argue that making all four of those stops would be excessive.

 

[Joel N. Weber II]

Actually, it looks like someone else removed the broken link to the study on 14 January 2008. But I've just updated the North South Rail Link article to link to archive.org's copy of the study; archive.org's copy looks a bit incomplete, but it's probably a lot better than nothing.

 

[edding]

The Southern Pacific was absorbed by the Union Pacific in 1996. However, passenger train schedules are set by Amtrak with some input from the host railroads, so any issues with scheduling should be addressed to Amtrak.
The issue with a connection between the Starlight and the Sunset is one of timing. Just looking at one direction, to make that connection work Amtrak would have to move up the southbound Starlight by hours which would move the Bay Area arrival to something like 4am. They would also have to push back the eastbound Sunset departure from LAX by hours which would make it's arrival in Tucson and San Antonio similarly inconvenient. It's a matter of balance. Amtrak has probably figured that the potential volume of connecting traffic between the Starlight and Sunset is not worth the potential loss of business that would result from pushing both trains into a less advantageous time slots.

That, of course, is of little comfort to someone who is inconvenienced by the lack of a connection. But, that is pretty much why it is the way it is.

then there is the Chicago connection factor.

Amtrak tries to get all the lond distance trains into Chicago such that a cross country connection can be made. the last train in from the West is #6 at 3:50PM with the first out to the East 5:45 Cardinal.

and going the other way the last train from the East into Chicago is the Cardinal at 10:35 AM with the first West bound lond distance train #5 leaving at 2:00PM

Amtrak seems to have gotten the no overnights in Chicago connections for the long hauls as their important consideration, and have built schedules out from there. the Shortest connection on the long hauls is an Hour and 50 minutes on the #8>#50 connection

now this is only a factor in the long distance trains, the midwest trains are not included in this scheduling dance. I suspect it mostly works and it Saves Amtrak a bundle in shuttling people or putting em up for missed connections.

Bob.

Too bad you can't connect from a western train to another western train through Chicago without an overnight. Somebody wanting to go from St. Paul to Denver has to stay an extra night in Chicago. That's why we need more north/south routes in the western two/thirds of the country.

yeah we really do need a true "national network" my list would look like this.

. daily service on the tri weekly trains (including the Sunset to Jacksonville)

. restore the Portland-Salt lake-Las Vegas-LA train

. restore the Broadway limited

. twice daily service on all existing routes approx 12 hours apart.

. relink Toronto - Chicago

. something along the East side of the Front range, ie;El Paso-Albuquerque-Denver-Minneapolis/St Paul (including Wyo & S D)

. close the gap Omaha - KC

. Cinn - St Louis (a NYC-DC-St Louis- KC-Denver-SF mid country coast to coast service)

. also close the gap St Louis - Atlanta - Jacksonville

. in the dream catagory finally the North Station-South Station connection in Boston, and Oakland - San Francisco

that would be my first list

Bob

While I'm all for new routes, this whole thread was about Vancouver, WA - Maricopa, AZ. It's interesting that in this amongst all threads, no one seems to want to restore passenger service to Phoenix, AZ( where I'm sure the OP was actually headed). It's only the 5th largest city in the country. The Rodney Dangerfield of cities.

Ed

 

[GG-1]

Respect, What's That. :lol:

Aloha

 

[ceilidh]

The Southern Pacific was absorbed by the Union Pacific in 1996. However, passenger train schedules are set by Amtrak with some input from the host railroads, so any issues with scheduling should be addressed to Amtrak.
The issue with a connection between the Starlight and the Sunset is one of timing. Just looking at one direction, to make that connection work Amtrak would have to move up the southbound Starlight by hours which would move the Bay Area arrival to something like 4am. They would also have to push back the eastbound Sunset departure from LAX by hours which would make it's arrival in Tucson and San Antonio similarly inconvenient. It's a matter of balance. Amtrak has probably figured that the potential volume of connecting traffic between the Starlight and Sunset is not worth the potential loss of business that would result from pushing both trains into a less advantageous time slots.

That, of course, is of little comfort to someone who is inconvenienced by the lack of a connection. But, that is pretty much why it is the way it is.

then there is the Chicago connection factor.

Amtrak tries to get all the lond distance trains into Chicago such that a cross country connection can be made. the last train in from the West is #6 at 3:50PM with the first out to the East 5:45 Cardinal.

and going the other way the last train from the East into Chicago is the Cardinal at 10:35 AM with the first West bound lond distance train #5 leaving at 2:00PM

Amtrak seems to have gotten the no overnights in Chicago connections for the long hauls as their important consideration, and have built schedules out from there. the Shortest connection on the long hauls is an Hour and 50 minutes on the #8>#50 connection

now this is only a factor in the long distance trains, the midwest trains are not included in this scheduling dance. I suspect it mostly works and it Saves Amtrak a bundle in shuttling people or putting em up for missed connections.

Bob.

Too bad you can't connect from a western train to another western train through Chicago without an overnight. Somebody wanting to go from St. Paul to Denver has to stay an extra night in Chicago. That's why we need more north/south routes in the western two/thirds of the country.

yeah we really do need a true "national network" my list would look like this.

. daily service on the tri weekly trains (including the Sunset to Jacksonville)

. restore the Portland-Salt lake-Las Vegas-LA train

. restore the Broadway limited

. twice daily service on all existing routes approx 12 hours apart.

. relink Toronto - Chicago

. something along the East side of the Front range, ie;El Paso-Albuquerque-Denver-Minneapolis/St Paul (including Wyo & S D)

. close the gap Omaha - KC

. Cinn - St Louis (a NYC-DC-St Louis- KC-Denver-SF mid country coast to coast service)

. also close the gap St Louis - Atlanta - Jacksonville

. in the dream catagory finally the North Station-South Station connection in Boston, and Oakland - San Francisco

that would be my first list

Bob

While I'm all for new routes, this whole thread was about Vancouver, WA - Maricopa, AZ. It's interesting that in this amongst all threads, no one seems to want to restore passenger service to Phoenix, AZ( where I'm sure the OP was actually headed). It's only the 5th largest city in the country. The Rodney Dangerfield of cities.

Ed

Phx has grown so much that Maricopa is now like a suburb. For a long time if you were trying to get to Phx, Flagstaff was the closet you could get so at least you can get closer to Phx now.

I hadn't thought about the time that the trains would arrive. Since the Sunset Limited and the Texas Eagle both got as far as San Antonio on alternate days why not have one of them be a connection for the people coming on the CS to LAX traveling to AZ & TX, that way you would just have to adjust your day of travel to make the connection.

BTW Amtrak told me that it was due to Southern Pacific scheduling that you couldn't make the connection.

Ceilidh

 

[MrFSS]

... Since the Sunset Limited and the Texas Eagle both got as far as San Antonio on alternate days why not have one of them be a connection for the people coming on the CS to LAX traveling to AZ & TX, that way you would just have to adjust your day of travel to make the connection. Ceilidh

The SSL and TE are the same train leaving on the same days at the same time from LAUS. It looks like two different trains on paper, but it is the same train with some cars going to Chicago and some going to New Orleans, splitting up in San Antonio.

 

[Joel N. Weber II]

While I'm all for new routes, this whole thread was about Vancouver, WA - Maricopa, AZ. It's interesting that in this amongst all threads, no one seems to want to restore passenger service to Phoenix, AZ( where I'm sure the OP was actually headed). It's only the 5th largest city in the country. The Rodney Dangerfield of cities.

Yes, it's the fifth largest city in the country if you're going to split hairs and count the number of people who happen to share a common mayor. But if you look at the primary census areas, it's only the 13th largest. When you can easily walk from Cambridge, MA to BON, it strikes me that there's some value to using a metric that acknowleges that there being a political border between nearby municipalities doesn't necessarily prevent people from getting from one municipality to another easily.

Restoring rail passenger service to Phoenix would require getting it to have a passenger station again. It would also require one of the following:

1) Restoring the tracks to the west of Phoenix that were previously used pretty much exclusively for passenger trains. Maintaining several tens of miles of tracks for six trains a week isn't terribly cost effective.

2) Building new high speed track that would get a lot more people out of airplanes and onto trains (possibly going so far as to make Phoenix to Los Angeles flights obsolete), justifying more frequent service and thus helping to cover maintenance costs; and while I think this is a good long term plan, it requires a very large capital investment.

3) Having all of the Sunset Limited passengers who aren't going to Phoenix experience the added travel time of taking the existing spur into Phoenix from the east, and then backtracking (is that going to lead to even more connection that don't work on one end of the route or the other?)

4) Running a shuttle train between downtown Phoenix and the point where the Phoenix spur meets the mainline, in which case you also need a platform where the meet happens, and possibly extra sidings so that freight doesn't get blocked on the mainline while passengers transfer. However, the equipment for the shuttle train could probably be something like a P42, an Amfleet coach, and a cabbage, which Amtrak could probably come up with with little difficulty.

Or maybe there's yet another option I've missed.

 

[access bob]

While I'm all for new routes, this whole thread was about Vancouver, WA - Maricopa, AZ. It's interesting that in this amongst all threads, no one seems to want to restore passenger service to Phoenix, AZ( where I'm sure the OP was actually headed). It's only the 5th largest city in the country. The Rodney Dangerfield of cities.

Yes, it's the fifth largest city in the country if you're going to split hairs and count the number of people who happen to share a common mayor. But if you look at the primary census areas, it's only the 13th largest. When you can easily walk from Cambridge, MA to BON, it strikes me that there's some value to using a metric that acknowleges that there being a political border between nearby municipalities doesn't necessarily prevent people from getting from one municipality to another easily.

Restoring rail passenger service to Phoenix would require getting it to have a passenger station again. It would also require one of the following:

1) Restoring the tracks to the west of Phoenix that were previously used pretty much exclusively for passenger trains. Maintaining several tens of miles of tracks for six trains a week isn't terribly cost effective.

2) Building new high speed track that would get a lot more people out of airplanes and onto trains (possibly going so far as to make Phoenix to Los Angeles flights obsolete), justifying more frequent service and thus helping to cover maintenance costs; and while I think this is a good long term plan, it requires a very large capital investment.

3) Having all of the Sunset Limited passengers who aren't going to Phoenix experience the added travel time of taking the existing spur into Phoenix from the east, and then backtracking (is that going to lead to even more connection that don't work on one end of the route or the other?)

4) Running a shuttle train between downtown Phoenix and the point where the Phoenix spur meets the mainline, in which case you also need a platform where the meet happens, and possibly extra sidings so that freight doesn't get blocked on the mainline while passengers transfer. However, the equipment for the shuttle train could probably be something like a P42, an Amfleet coach, and a cabbage, which Amtrak could probably come up with with little difficulty.

Or maybe there's yet another option I've missed.

grab a couple old RDC cars and run the shuttle that meets all trains with em. might even start a vestige of a commuter rail service. Trinity Rail Express might be done with their RDC's (city should run it not Amtrak)

Bob

 

[Joel N. Weber II]

grab a couple old RDC cars and run the shuttle that meets all trains with em. might even start a vestige of a commuter rail service. Trinity Rail Express might be done with their RDC's (city should run it not Amtrak)

My suspicion is that with a prominent Senator from Arizona being strongly opposed to Amtrak, the attitudes in that area are likely such that saying that the city should run it is a way of saying that it shouldn't be run.

With RDCs, there probably need to be two RDCs so that one can be used while the other is in the shop, and there'd either need to be a shop set up near Phoenix, or a lot of fuel spent moving the RDC to the shop when needed. With P42s, Amtrak could probably just swap the shuttle locomotive with a locomotive on the Sunset Limited to get that locomotive to the shop when it's time for an inspection.

If Phoenix started having a significant commuter rail operation, that overhead with the RDCs wouldn't really be such a disadvantage, though.