Use of electric cigarettes in sleeper

[sunchaser]

Could smokers use a nicotine patch or smokeless tobacco for a trip that didn't allow enough stops to smoke? I do see a couple of vendors in Union Station and Ogilvie Center proudly advertising they have fresh Copenhagen.

Smokers certainly can use patches, gum & lozenges, most of them probably do. There is no way I'm going to use chew!!!

We can easily go for four or five hours during the day without smoking. Six is pushing it. As I mentioned earlier, I brought some lozenges just in case they were needed. We were two hours behind schedule on the #6 California Zephyr last summer, which meant instead of five hours between stops, it was seven. We still didn't use the lozenges. We aren't heavy smokers, others may not be able to go that long.

I know it's unlikely that smoking in any area on the other trains will ever return-but I would like to be able to choose if and when I can smoke, just as others choose not to.

 

[GG-1]

Aloha

I am not sure I am using the correct name, but what about funnels. Like on a boat to refresh the air for the smoking area.

 

[Ryan]

You're thinking of a Dorade Box:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorade_box

Named after the first vessel to sport them:

 

[GG-1]

You're thinking of a Dorade Box:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorade_box

Aloha

That's what I was thinking of.

Mahalo

 

[BillVas]

Here's the Amtrak statement on the matter:

ELECTRONIC CIGARETTES PROHIBITEDELECTRONIC CIGARETTES OR E-CIGARETTES ARE BEING MARKETED AS A SAFER ALTERNATIVE TO SMOKING TOBACCO PRODUCTS FOR INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE ADDICTED TO OR WANT TO USE NICOTINE. MANY OF THESE ELECTRONIC DEVICES ARE DESIGNED TO LOOK LIKE CIGARETTES, CIGARS AND PIPES. THERE HAVE BEEN SOME INSTANCES OF PASSENGERS SMOKING E-CIGARETTES ON AMTRAK TRAINS AND IN AMTRAK STATIONS. THESE ELECTRONIC DEVICES HAVE NOT BEEN APPROVED BY THE FDA AS BEING SAFE TO USE.

AN E-CIGARETTE CONSISTS OF A METAL OR PLASTIC TUBE THAT CONTAINS A LITHIUM BATTERY PACK, A HEATING ELEMENT, ELECTRONIC COMPONENTS, AND, IN THOSE DESIGNED TO LOOK LIKE CIGARETTES, AN LED AT ONE END THAT MIMICS THE GLOW OF A LIT CIGARETTE WHEN THE USER DRAWS AIR THROUGH IT. WHEN A USER DRAWS AIR THROUGH THE DEVICE, A HEATING ELEMENT VAPORIZES THE NICOTINE CONTAINING PROPYLENE GLYCOL SOLUTION, AND THE VAPOR IS INHALED INTO THE LUNGS. WHEN THEY ARE PUFFED, A VAPOR IS EMITTED INTO THE ATMOSPHERE. THE VAPOR EMITTED CAN BE VISUALLY SIMILAR TO CIGARETTE SMOKE. THERE IS ALSO THE POSSIBILITY THAT THE EXHALED AEROSOL FROM AN E-CIGARETTE COULD CONTAIN NICOTINE, PROPYLENE GLYCOL OR OTHER VOLATILE MATERIALS.

AMTRAK DOES NOT ALLOW THE USE OF THESE ELECTRONIC SMOKING DEVICES IN ANY AREA ON TRAINS, ON THRUWAY BUSES, IN STATIONS, OR IN ANY OTHER AREA WHERE SMOKING IS PROHIBITED.

Okay thanks I will tell my friend.

 

[PetalumaLoco]

Here's the Amtrak statement on the matter:

ELECTRONIC CIGARETTES PROHIBITEDELECTRONIC CIGARETTES OR E-CIGARETTES ARE BEING MARKETED AS A SAFER ALTERNATIVE TO SMOKING TOBACCO PRODUCTS FOR INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE ADDICTED TO OR WANT TO USE NICOTINE. MANY OF THESE ELECTRONIC DEVICES ARE DESIGNED TO LOOK LIKE CIGARETTES, CIGARS AND PIPES. THERE HAVE BEEN SOME INSTANCES OF PASSENGERS SMOKING E-CIGARETTES ON AMTRAK TRAINS AND IN AMTRAK STATIONS. THESE ELECTRONIC DEVICES HAVE NOT BEEN APPROVED BY THE FDA AS BEING SAFE TO USE.

AN E-CIGARETTE CONSISTS OF A METAL OR PLASTIC TUBE THAT CONTAINS A LITHIUM BATTERY PACK, A HEATING ELEMENT, ELECTRONIC COMPONENTS, AND, IN THOSE DESIGNED TO LOOK LIKE CIGARETTES, AN LED AT ONE END THAT MIMICS THE GLOW OF A LIT CIGARETTE WHEN THE USER DRAWS AIR THROUGH IT. WHEN A USER DRAWS AIR THROUGH THE DEVICE, A HEATING ELEMENT VAPORIZES THE NICOTINE CONTAINING PROPYLENE GLYCOL SOLUTION, AND THE VAPOR IS INHALED INTO THE LUNGS. WHEN THEY ARE PUFFED, A VAPOR IS EMITTED INTO THE ATMOSPHERE. THE VAPOR EMITTED CAN BE VISUALLY SIMILAR TO CIGARETTE SMOKE. THERE IS ALSO THE POSSIBILITY THAT THE EXHALED AEROSOL FROM AN E-CIGARETTE COULD CONTAIN NICOTINE, PROPYLENE GLYCOL OR OTHER VOLATILE MATERIALS.

AMTRAK DOES NOT ALLOW THE USE OF THESE ELECTRONIC SMOKING DEVICES IN ANY AREA ON TRAINS, ON THRUWAY BUSES, IN STATIONS, OR IN ANY OTHER AREA WHERE SMOKING IS PROHIBITED.

Okay thanks I will tell my friend.

I agree with Amtrak's decision.

However, the FDA hasn't the authority to approve or disapprove e-cigarettes.

But it wants authority.

 

[DET63]

Car vs Cigarette polution? Ha! How many house fires have been started by carelessly dicarded running cars vs lit cigarettes? Seriously are we making foreward progress even if baby steps? I think so. Do we have more and better rail and other transit options than we did in 1980? Enough said.
GML, cigarette smokers, christians, homosexuals, and train fanatics all have in common as groups some who are the in you face type, who you immediatly resent (unless you happen to share that interest), while the vast majority quietly go about their business with caution and respect for others. The second segement you will not likely know are in a group from a casual encounter.

Now, if Amtrak were to provide a true smoking area, how about an open end observation with the last 1/3 of the car open for smoking, and a vestibule (two doors) seperating from the non smoking area of the train. They could even get extra revenue from renting buffalo robes to smokers in the northern states during winter!

I believe some Amtrak cars have an open-air penthouse area. All you have to do is (a) find a car with the open-air penthouse, and (b) find the stairway up to it. Unfortunately, the cars with the open-air penthouse look almost identical to those without, even from inside, so you might have to spend some time looking for the stairway to it. It's my understanding Sleeping Car Attendants all know the way, but don't want to let passengers in on the secret (where do you think they are when you can't find them?). A few of them might take a bribe tip to show you how to get to the penthouse, however.

 

[catblue]

I've seen these things close up, and there is absolutely no smoke, but the mere "Thought" of someone breaking the rules sends the do-gooders into shock.

rrdude you use the term 'do-gooders" as if it is a bad thing.

When did standing up for truth, justice, and for the good of all society become a negative thing?

In my opinion we need rules. Without them there would be chaos.

 

[Guest]

I've seen these things close up, and there is absolutely no smoke, but the mere "Thought" of someone breaking the rules sends the do-gooders into shock.

rrdude you use the term 'do-gooders" as if it is a bad thing.

When did standing up for truth, justice, and for the good of all society become a negative thing?

In my opinion we need rules. Without them there would be chaos.

It would be for the good of all society if people who didn't need them would stop driving SUVs and big trucks. You ready to make rules about that? How about banning soft drinks, they are bad for all of us as well.

Some rules are good, but rules can easily be taken too far.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

How about banning soft drinks, they are bad for all of us as well.

If you smoke, and I don't, and you do it in areas that I am, you pollute the atmosphere that I breathe. That is wrong. I see nothing wrong with someone smoking in their own personal atmosphere.

If I drink soda, and you don't, I damage my own health. Other than the potential trauma of seeing how fat I get from it, it doesn't affect you.

If people got their high from injecting tobacco into their veins, I'd have no problem with it at all.

I'm a huge believer in personal rights. Including my right to not be forced to inhale other people's cigarette smoke.

If you conclusively proved to me that all these electronic cigarettes output to the atmosphere is plain old water vapor, I'd have no problem with them at all.

 

[catblue]

I've seen these things close up, and there is absolutely no smoke, but the mere "Thought" of someone breaking the rules sends the do-gooders into shock.

rrdude you use the term 'do-gooders" as if it is a bad thing.

When did standing up for truth, justice, and for the good of all society become a negative thing?

In my opinion we need rules. Without them there would be chaos.

It would be for the good of all society if people who didn't need them would stop driving SUVs and big trucks. You ready to make rules about that? How about banning soft drinks, they are bad for all of us as well.

Some rules are good, but rules can easily be taken too far.

As with every thing there can be excess. Still we have to have some rules.

There is a rule that someone can't come to your home and take your stuff or beat you up. Is that a rule you think we should not have? I bet not!

So what rules some think are OK to break and what rules are not OK to break seems to be the debate. Who gets to choose which ones are OK to break? We could debate that forever and never come to a agreement.

The rules and laws we have are there for the good of the majority and are suppose to be followed in this country. If you don't like the rules/laws you try to get them changed or you could always try to find a place to live that has no rules or laws. Wonder how long it would be before you said, "We need some rules!"?

As long as it is a rule or the law you should obey it is what I am saying.

As others have said and as far as I am concerned, you can do what ever you want in your own space or home as long as it is does not endangering the health or well being of others.

As for SUV's being bad there have also been studies that say dogs leave a larger carbon footprint than SUVs and humans more than dogs or SUVs.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

If I drink soda, and you don't, I damage my own health. Other than the potential trauma of seeing how fat I get from it, it doesn't affect you.

If you can prove that you haven't received one penny of my tax dollars for your healthcare then I will validate that argument.

I could care less, but there's a gaping hole in your train of thought.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

I could go to the trouble of showing how I pay (considerable) sums of money for my and my girlfriends health care. But I won't. I'll just say I don't get public assistance for my healthcare.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

We'll see when you're on medicare if the amount you've paid in equals the amount you get back...

 

[Bob Dylan]

We'll see when you're on medicare if the amount you've paid in equals the amount you get back...

ALC: As one who IS on medicare and Social Security (as a retired govt. employee I also have a small pension and suuplemental health insurance)I have to point out that in my case it has been a life saver since I have had some serious medical problems since retirement! (were talking over $100,000+)and will receive my pension and social secirity the rest of my life! During my 50+ years of work I paid in a substantial amount of various taxes/fees/premiums etc. but already have received back more than even Bill Gates would get from these programs since really rich dont pay as much per capita as we do! (Warren Buffet, ne BNSF new owner says his secretary pays more taxes than he does, that he doesnt need any social programs but that working people do!) I certainly wouldnt be able to ride trains, or even be on this forum w/o medicare and my social security!

I have to say it's the best thing our Federal Govt. ever did and know of no-one retired that disagrees unless they are brain dead and believe what they read on the internet and hear on Fixed Noise! "Youth is so wasted on the young!" as Mark Twain said! " :lol: )"You could look it up!" as Casey Stengel said!

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

For the record Jim, I am a dues-paying member of SPUSA. I have no problem with either of those government programs... what I have a problem with is people making unsubstanciated claims that simply aren't true.

If you speak in absolutes you will always be wrong.

Double entendre and sarcasm implied.

 

[DET63]

I could go to the trouble of showing how I pay (considerable) sums of money for my and my girlfriends health care. But I won't. I'll just say I don't get public assistance for my healthcare.

Which actually presents a good argument against any sort of government-run healthcare.

 

[Tony]

Here's the Amtrak statement on the matter:

...THESE ELECTRONIC DEVICES HAVE NOT BEEN APPROVED BY THE FDA AS BEING SAFE TO USE.

...

From CNN:

In March[2009], the Food and Drug Administration imposed a ban on continued imports of the devices, pending regulatory review for any health risks....

But the units may deliver hazardous chemicals, according to preliminary checks by federal regulators. In a notice to importers, the FDA blocked continued shipments after finding diethylene glycol, a chemical used in antifreeze that is toxic to humans.

...

The notice of the import ban says "the product appears to be a combination drug-device," that "requires pre-approval, registration and listing with the FDA" in order to be marketed in the United States.

...

President Obama, who has described himself as an occasional smoker, has been offered one of the devices by Florida Rep. Cliff Stearns. The Republican lawmaker's office said the president did not respond.

 

[Alice]

Here's the Amtrak statement on the matter:

...THESE ELECTRONIC DEVICES HAVE NOT BEEN APPROVED BY THE FDA AS BEING SAFE TO USE.

...

From CNN:

In March[2009], the Food and Drug Administration imposed a ban on continued imports of the devices, pending regulatory review for any health risks....

But the units may deliver hazardous chemicals, according to preliminary checks by federal regulators. In a notice to importers, the FDA blocked continued shipments after finding diethylene glycol, a chemical used in antifreeze that is toxic to humans.

...

The notice of the import ban says "the product appears to be a combination drug-device," that "requires pre-approval, registration and listing with the FDA" in order to be marketed in the United States.

...

President Obama, who has described himself as an occasional smoker, has been offered one of the devices by Florida Rep. Cliff Stearns. The Republican lawmaker's office said the president did not respond.

The quotes from the linked article are kind of incomplete. The main point in the CNN article is that e-cigarettes "are as effective at nicotine delivery as puffing on an unlit cigarette," quoting the researcher.

Regarding the import ban, it was overturned in Federal Court last month. The judge said these are a nicotine delivery device, like traditional cigarettes, not a medical device, so the FDA can control them and control advertising for them but cannot ban them. "'This case appears to be yet another example of F.D.A.’s aggressive efforts to regulate recreational tobacco products as drugs or devices,' Judge Leon wrote." The FDA is appealing.

NY Times, "Judge Orders F.D.A. to Stop Blocking Imports of E-Cigarettes From China" Jan 14, 2010

 

[VictoriaShe]

Okay! So, question for the non-haters: Does the Coast Starlight make any stops between Los Angeles and Oakland where there is time to get off the train and smoke just a puff or two? Going tomorrow!

Thanks,

V

 

[Guest]

Okay! So, question for the non-haters: Does the Coast Starlight make any stops between Los Angeles and Oakland where there is time to get off the train and smoke just a puff or two? Going tomorrow!
Thanks,

V

If it's early into San Luis Obispo, there's usually 15 minutes or so for a smoke. Sometimes at Santa Barbara but I wouldn't count on it. And if the train is running late, you'll just have to suck it in, so to speak, until you get to Oakland.

 

[VictoriaShe]

Okay! So, question for the non-haters: Does the Coast Starlight make any stops between Los Angeles and Oakland where there is time to get off the train and smoke just a puff or two? Going tomorrow!
Thanks,

V

If it's early into San Luis Obispo, there's usually 15 minutes or so for a smoke. Sometimes at Santa Barbara but I wouldn't count on it. And if the train is running late, you'll just have to suck it in, so to speak, until you get to Oakland.

Thank you. After I posted, but before your response, I decided to call Amtrak to ask the question. The woman I spoke to must be a smoker, as she was sweet and kind. She said that there should be time at most stops, what with loading luggage, helping people with disabilities to board, etc., -- but that we should stay very close to the train. I'm not talking about a full-on smoking break. Just 30 seconds to a minute or so can get us comfortably to the next stop.

 

[sunchaser]

Okay! So, question for the non-haters: Does the Coast Starlight make any stops between Los Angeles and Oakland where there is time to get off the train and smoke just a puff or two? Going tomorrow!
Thanks,

V

If it's early into San Luis Obispo, there's usually 15 minutes or so for a smoke. Sometimes at Santa Barbara but I wouldn't count on it. And if the train is running late, you'll just have to suck it in, so to speak, until you get to Oakland.

Thank you. After I posted, but before your response, I decided to call Amtrak to ask the question. The woman I spoke to must be a smoker, as she was sweet and kind. She said that there should be time at most stops, what with loading luggage, helping people with disabilities to board, etc., -- but that we should stay very close to the train. I'm not talking about a full-on smoking break. Just 30 seconds to a minute or so can get us comfortably to the next stop.

As a smoker, I brought some of those lozenges-but never used them. You may want to get some "just in case".

 

[AlanB]

Okay! So, question for the non-haters: Does the Coast Starlight make any stops between Los Angeles and Oakland where there is time to get off the train and smoke just a puff or two? Going tomorrow!
Thanks,

V

If it's early into San Luis Obispo, there's usually 15 minutes or so for a smoke. Sometimes at Santa Barbara but I wouldn't count on it. And if the train is running late, you'll just have to suck it in, so to speak, until you get to Oakland.

Thank you. After I posted, but before your response, I decided to call Amtrak to ask the question. The woman I spoke to must be a smoker, as she was sweet and kind. She said that there should be time at most stops, what with loading luggage, helping people with disabilities to board, etc., -- but that we should stay very close to the train. I'm not talking about a full-on smoking break. Just 30 seconds to a minute or so can get us comfortably to the next stop.

I regret to inform you that the employee you spoke with is wrong. They will not allow you off the train for even a quickie at each and every stop. Only those disembarking at each stop are allowed off the train when the train makes a brief stop. You will only be allowed off the train at designated smoke stops that the crew will announce. In general Amtrak tries to schedule such a stop every 4 to 5 hours, but there are no guarantees and if the train is running late, a smoke stop can be cancelled. On the other hand an early train might actually see extra smoke stops.

 

[VictoriaShe]

Sunchaser, thank you for that suggestion. Might be worth a try.

And thanks for the info, Alan. I can do four or five hours... but twelve would be difficult.