U.S. House votes to cut Amtrak funding, allow pets

[afigg]

Now onto the Senate....

http://www.narprail-org.newsconsultant.net/news/narp-blog/2328-senate-amendment-would-eliminate-amtrak-food-and-beverage

Isn't that is a 2014 transportation funding alert? If so, that got resolved with Amtrak maintaining FY2015 funding at the FY2014 levels.
What I don't know is what is the status of the Amtrak Re-authorization bill in the Senate. Is the Senate working on a completely separate bill or will it take up the House bill for consideration?

 

[PRR 60]

The amendment proposed by Senator Coons would increase funding, but would also require the bill to go back to conference committee and finally to a new vote in the House. Since this was a bi-partisan bill, I would be very hesitant to do anything that could lead to the house scuttling the entire package. It's a pretty good bill, and has the support of Amtrak management. Don't mess with it.

I also do not want to mess with the bill with the F&B issue. However, the often heard complaint of "micro-managing" is, in my opinion, also not valid. Past requirements have been to reduce the loses incurred by Food and Beverage. It did not tell Amtrak how to do that. It was Amtrak that decided to cut menus and get rid of flowers and tablecloths. Meanwhile, potentially big savings items, point of sale and electronic inventory control, are still not in place after years of promises.

In FY2014, Amtrak's adjusted loss for operations was $189 million. Of that $189 million, $156 million came from F&B losses. Amtrak was able to run all its trains with a loss of just $33 million, but then lost another $156 million serving food. As someone who rides Amtrak, I see the dining car service. I see those ridiculous multi-part forms used to order the meals and later account for inventory and revenue. I have not seen anything like that outside Amtrak in twenty years. If you drill back from the customer interface into the mysterious back-office world of Amtrak F&B, I bet the inefficiency gets even worse. There has to be some real savings available modernizing that system - more than the savings from eliminating flowers and tablecloths.

So, while I do not agree with the amendment to ban F&B subsidy, I also am not among those who feel that F&B operation should be simply left to Amtrak. Amtrak has not proven itself able to bring F&B into the 21st century. With 83 cents of every dollar of operating subsidy going to support food and beverage service, I think maybe a little micro-managing is in order. Look at it from the perspective of a passenger rail supporter. If Amtrak could cut just $30 million from that $156 million F&B loss, they would have enough to maintain the Southwest Chief on its present route with change to spare. Amtrak food and beverage inefficiency is stealing money from actually running trains.

 

[George K]

Fascinating analysis. I had no idea that F&B were such a loser - 83% of the operating losses is staggering. As you point out, improving efficiency would go a long way to cutting that. I have no knowledge of the food industry, so let me ask: what kinds of efficiencies can be improved?

 

[jis]

Now onto the Senate....

http://www.narprail-org.newsconsultant.net/news/narp-blog/2328-senate-amendment-would-eliminate-amtrak-food-and-beverage

Isn't that is a 2014 transportation funding alert? If so, that got resolved with Amtrak maintaining FY2015 funding at the FY2014 levels.
What I don't know is what is the status of the Amtrak Re-authorization bill in the Senate. Is the Senate working on a completely separate bill or will it take up the House bill for consideration?

Yeah, that is what happened in 2014. Hopefully Senate can improve some of the numbers this year, but that might be too much to hope for.

 

[jis]

Fascinating analysis. I had no idea that F&B were such a loser - 83% of the operating losses is staggering. As you point out, improving efficiency would go a long way to cutting that. I have no knowledge of the food industry, so let me ask: what kinds of efficiencies can be improved?

While we are at it, we should take into consideration the incredible losses piled on by the toilet service on Amtrak trains and stations. There is absolutely no revenue accruing from them and they cost a ton of money to maintain. Ever since its inception Amtrak has not been able to get a handle on this, so a little micro management might be in order in this area too.

 

[George K]

While we are at it, we should take into consideration the incredible losses piled on by the toilet service on Amtrak trains and stations. There is absolutely no revenue accruing from them and they cost a ton of money to maintain. Ever since its inception Amtrak has not been able to get a handle on this, so a little micro management might be in order in this area too.

 

[Railroad Bill]

While we are at it, we should take into consideration the incredible losses piled on by the toilet service on Amtrak trains and stations. There is absolutely no revenue accruing from them and they cost a ton of money to maintain. Ever since its inception Amtrak has not been able to get a handle on this, so a little micro management might be in order in this area too.

Would this mean we need to start bringing our own TP. Think of the savings for Amtrak. And perhaps eliminating the soap and towels could fix the budget as well. :wacko:

 

[jis]

I hope people are not taking my comment too seriously. It was just an attempt to illustrate how one can go after any essential support service the same way Mica and company are raising this hoo-ha about F&B and how some well meaning folks are taking it in hook, line and sinker. Yes of course things can be improved, but no, that does not mean Congress should be micromanaging it.

 

[Ryan]

Bill, you raise some valid points, but is eliminating all losses from F&B the correct goal? Given their history as a loss leader, the ideal solution is probably to lose some money to get people on the trains. Are the current losses acceptable? Doubtful, but maybe. We don't have the information needed to in order to arrive at that optimal solution, and I doubt Congress does.

Simply pushing an ideological "no losses" onto a certain aspect of the business falls into the micromanagement policy in my book.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Hopefully the Senate will accept the House Bill with No Amendments or changes!

Contact your Senators ( even the Hopeless ones, the squeaky wheel gets the grease) and ask them to Vote for the Bi- Partisan House Bill as passed!

 

[jis]

The Senate has to first start doing anything about it. There seems to have been a distinct lack of motion in the Senate in this area so far AFAICT. Can't find anything on either the Senate docket or the Transportation Committee or any of its Subcommittee dockets on this. Maybe I am looking at all the wrong places?

 

[AlexandriaVaTraveler]

Amtrak should run an experiment where meals are not included in the ticket price, and all the fares are lowered by a corresponding amount. Right now, compartment passengers are paying for meals that they may or may not necessarily want.

I know that railfans like the old-style meal-on-a-train concept, but why not let consumers choose whether or not they eat. Maybe they'd prefer to bring their own. Maybe a cottage industry of platform-side takeout would sprout up.

To sum, Amtrak forces compartment passengers to purchase meals, which Amtrak loses money on. It's time to experiment with different business models. Don't take away menu options, just give consumers choice.

 

[jis]

The original reason for including meals as part of Sleeper fare was to save the Dining Cars, which were on the verge of getting pulled. No experiment is needed to know what the result will be. The outcome is pretty much a foregone conclusion from past experience. Just because some people want to hallucinate about F&B becoming a profit center ain't gonna make it so.

In the Golden Age of passenger railroading food was generally not included in the fare and F&B involving sit down dining in Dining Cars never did really break even anywhere. Amtrak style Cafe service may have a prayer at breaking even. But a train journey that lasts overnight and sometimes several days becomes uniquely non-feasible if no reasonable food service is provided on the train, no matter how much people wish to fantasize about it.

 

[AlexandriaVATraveler]

If Amtrak LD trains were consistently on time, there's no reason that station-based catering couldn't work. The Trans-Siberian Railway is about 7 days travel (I think). From reading about it, it seems like the dining car is pretty regrettable and the way to go is the take advantage of station-side food merchant (who tend to be old ladies I believe). From the Wikitravel entry on the TSR:

"On the Moscow–Vladivostok route) the train stops for 20–30 minutes every 3–4 hours. Everybody can get out of the train, and there are always people on the platform that offer a variety of fresh food (eggs, fish, cheese, bread, fruits, meat or cheese in a cake) and often some drinks for passengers. Prices are low; only Russian rubles are accepted. A highlight is the smoked fish (Omul) being sold on the shore of Lake Baikal (Station: Slyudyanka, a quick stop, so be fast). Some of the larger stations will have food marts with snacks but it is now (2014) difficult to get alcohol within train stations or at the kiosks on the platform.

Many of the trains have dining cars (with extremely overpriced food and drinks), although if you do not speak any Russian, ordering the food will be an experience, to say the least. Food and drinks are also sold in kiosks at the platforms, but normally twice as expensive. To get a reasonable price, wait for a station with a 20–30 minutes stop, and just exit the train station, there is usually a plenty of kiosks or small shops just outside, offering a wider choice.

Since there is a samovar (hot water dispenser) in every carriage, your best bet is to have a stack of dried noodle soups and Nescafe ready. Just bring your own cup. The carriage attendants (Provodnitsa, Provodnik if male) will often have cold drinks, snacks, and even freeze-dried meals available for sale at slightly inflated prices."

 

[jis]

The big if about Amtrak trains being on time is what kills that idea at the getgo.

For corridor trains there needs to be some form of cafe/buffet food service as is normal even in Russia. Just the Dining Cars is not the issue when people talk about F&B on Amtrak. And perhaps not so surprisingly, actually the Cafes in places like the NEC and on some mid distance trains appear to perform much better financially, mainly because their labor costs are much lower than for Dining Cars.

India for example did away with Dining Cars on LD trains and substituted Pantry Cars for them. Food is served to the entire train from these pantry cars. This is mainly so on trains that have very few stops en-route, including in the Duronto Expresses, which have no commercial/timetable stops en route on routes that are as long as 24+ hours.

Amtrak LD trains across the Nevada desert for example would be difficult to handle using the Russian model because the Trans-Siberian is one of many trains that ply that route (and hence shares station facilities, including food services with multiple trains), whereas the CZ is a single train per day that plies that route and that ain't changing anytime soon.

 

[NE933]

While we are at it, we should take into consideration the incredible losses piled on by the toilet service on Amtrak trains and stations. There is absolutely no revenue accruing from them and they cost a ton of money to maintain. Ever since its inception Amtrak has not been able to get a handle on this, so a little micro management might be in order in this area too.

As "funny" as this is, Boardman should use the rude sarcasm in this example in Congressional testimony. People have to eat, and Amtrak carries people.

 

[Bjartmarr]

While we are at it, we should take into consideration the incredible losses piled on by the toilet service on Amtrak trains and stations. There is absolutely no revenue accruing from them and they cost a ton of money to maintain. Ever since its inception Amtrak has not been able to get a handle on this, so a little micro management might be in order in this area too.

I don't think that's a germane response. Sure, expecting F&B to be a profit center is unreasonable, but PRR60 was accusing them of wasting money on byzantine ordering and inventory processes. If true, that's certainly something that they can and should address.

If there are byzantine ordering and inventory processes associated with the toilets, they should address those as well. Hopefully, quietly.

 

[Ryan]

If they are wasting money, sure (and I don't doubt that they can provide the same service more cheaply). But Congress doesn't have the first clue into the details of how it works, so blindly demanding "no losses" is the wrong course of action.

 

[fillyjonk]

While we are at it, we should take into consideration the incredible losses piled on by the toilet service on Amtrak trains and stations. There is absolutely no revenue accruing from them and they cost a ton of money to maintain. Ever since its inception Amtrak has not been able to get a handle on this, so a little micro management might be in order in this area too.

Would this mean we need to start bringing our own TP. Think of the savings for Amtrak. And perhaps eliminating the soap and towels could fix the budget as well. :wacko:

Well, isn't there an airline (Ryanair, maybe?) that has pay toilets?

 

[neroden]

While reviewing the text of PRRIA 2015, I find that the Treasury grant program to restructure Amtrak debt is back. But only to the extent that it gets Congressional appropriations in advance.

The appropriations bills are still the thing to watch, but this may allow for additional Amtrak funding.