Train vs. Plane

[RRUserious]

Just for laughs, I priced a round trip to Seattle with sleeping room vs a flight in flrst class. Amtrak would be $1,441. Sun Country First Class would be $825. Pretty amazing the premium to go Amtrak. Now, I realize one is paying for a lot of meals on Amtrak that aren't included on Sun Country. Flip side is that the flight probably involves one meal at most. Didn't really check, but the first class ticket might include a meal, too. To me, having a sleeping room is the only acceptable way to be on a crowded train. So maybe I might fly first class, now that I know it is only 57 percent as expensive. No scenery on the plane, but given the number of times I've done Empire Builder and Greyhound, the scenery is not a great experience anymore.

 

[Cho Cho Charlie]

The last time I did such a comparison, it was $150 each, coach, one way, with all the fees and taxes, to fly. That's $600 round trip for two.

A roommette on Amtrak was about $750 for two round trip.

Yea, a bit more for Amtrak, but a lot more calming on my nerves. :wacko:

 

[MrFSS]

Just for laughs, I priced a round trip to Seattle with sleeping room vs a flight in first class. Amtrak would be $1,441. Sun Country First Class would be $825. Pretty amazing the premium to go Amtrak. Now, I realize one is paying for a lot of meals on Amtrak that aren't included on Sun Country. Flip side is that the flight probably involves one meal at most. Didn't really check, but the first class ticket might include a meal, too. To me, having a sleeping room is the only acceptable way to be on a crowded train. So maybe I might fly first class, now that I know it is only 57 percent as expensive. No scenery on the plane, but given the number of times I've done Empire Builder and Greyhound, the scenery is not a great experience anymore.

Round trip to Seattle from where? Did you happen to compare coach on the plane to coach on the train between the two points?

 

[TCRT]

Actually, Sun Country at least used to offer meals in all classes of service (or at least they did the last time I flew them, which was within the past year), though their definition of a meal involves far less than Amtrak's.

However, the last time I flew Sun Country, my flight was delayed for six hours and left Logan International at about 2:30AM - this is far later than any Amtrak train I have ever been on except for a twelve hour late train (caused by a serious freight maintenance issue) that was simply replaced with an on time bus.

 

[jebr]

Just for laughs, I priced a round trip to Seattle with sleeping room vs a flight in flrst class. Amtrak would be $1,441. Sun Country First Class would be $825. Pretty amazing the premium to go Amtrak. Now, I realize one is paying for a lot of meals on Amtrak that aren't included on Sun Country. Flip side is that the flight probably involves one meal at most. Didn't really check, but the first class ticket might include a meal, too. To me, having a sleeping room is the only acceptable way to be on a crowded train. So maybe I might fly first class, now that I know it is only 57 percent as expensive. No scenery on the plane, but given the number of times I've done Empire Builder and Greyhound, the scenery is not a great experience anymore.

Out of curiousity, what dates was this looked up at? Also, are you pricing for one person or two people? I've seen roomettes selling at around $500 each way Staples to Spokane about 14-21 days out, but flights for two people were nearly as expensive.

 

[Ispolkom]

No scenery on the plane, but given the number of times I've done Empire Builder and Greyhound, the scenery is not a great experience anymore.

I've been traveling the Hi Line for more than forty years, man and boy, and the scenery still amazes me, be it the Columbia Gorge, the Rocky Mountains, or the Great Plains.

On my last trip we took Amtrak from St. Paul to Buffalo, a bus Buffalo to Toronto, the Canadian from Toronto to Vancouver, then flew first class from Vancouver back to Minneapolis. The only reasons I preferred the airplane to the bus was that a) it was faster, and b) I got free drinks. And warm nuts. Can't forget the warm nut. I didn't like the security theater at the airport any better for it being in Canada, though Vancouver airport is almost empty on a Saturday night.

I figure that organizations charge what they can for their services. I book what's best for me. For the past few years, that's often been Amtrak. It doesn't matter to me what has the greater cost to provide (so I don't care about more meals, or higher fuel costs, or whatever), but rather what provides the greater benefit to me. Your preferences are different, so naturally your travel decisions would be.

FWIW, I checked Sun Country for November, when I'll next be on the Empire Builder, and found the Sun Country first class price to be a bit lower: $770.60.

 

[the_traveler]

Did you check 1 specific day in (say) July, or numerous dates in (say) Sept, Dec, Feb and April?

I bet a room in February is not going to be $1,441!

 

[ehbowen]

Just for laughs, I priced a round trip to Seattle with sleeping room vs a flight in flrst class. Amtrak would be $1,441. Sun Country First Class would be $825. Pretty amazing the premium to go Amtrak. Now, I realize one is paying for a lot of meals on Amtrak that aren't included on Sun Country. Flip side is that the flight probably involves one meal at most. Didn't really check, but the first class ticket might include a meal, too. To me, having a sleeping room is the only acceptable way to be on a crowded train. So maybe I might fly first class, now that I know it is only 57 percent as expensive. No scenery on the plane, but given the number of times I've done Empire Builder and Greyhound, the scenery is not a great experience anymore.

Was that a refundable and exchangeable airline ticket, with no fee for changes?

 

[jebr]

Just for laughs, I priced a round trip to Seattle with sleeping room vs a flight in flrst class. Amtrak would be $1,441. Sun Country First Class would be $825. Pretty amazing the premium to go Amtrak. Now, I realize one is paying for a lot of meals on Amtrak that aren't included on Sun Country. Flip side is that the flight probably involves one meal at most. Didn't really check, but the first class ticket might include a meal, too. To me, having a sleeping room is the only acceptable way to be on a crowded train. So maybe I might fly first class, now that I know it is only 57 percent as expensive. No scenery on the plane, but given the number of times I've done Empire Builder and Greyhound, the scenery is not a great experience anymore.

Was that a refundable and exchangeable airline ticket, with no fee for changes?

Fully exchangeable with only fare difference charged, any refunds have a $75 fee.

Aside: I don't get the obsession with a fully refundable/exchangeable ticket. Is it common to change itineraries frequently, or frequently enough that it's worth paying more than a nominal amount extra to be able to do so? And if a ticket is exchangeable but not refundable, is it worth paying extra if you know that you're going to take that trip at some point?

That being said, I'm guessing the OP is flying out of MSP, in which case first class on Sun Country is a flat $119 extra (each way) to Seattle. And yes, this fare is available for most days in July when I checked a few minutes ago. It is worth pointing out, though, that this fare is for one person, whereas two people can occupy a roomette. (If you're traveling alone, this doesn't matter, but if you have a companion the numbers will flush out differently.)

 

[the_traveler]

I usually travel on an AGR award, and there are NO change fees AND it is fully refundable in points!

As an aside, I looked I to redeeming an award using Dividend Miles (DM) on US Airways for this week. Besides MORE (then the "usual") DM, I would also have to pay the "Security" fee, a "Quick Ticketing" fee and (I forget what) some other fee. thus it would cost me 40,000 DM (at least) PLUS another $110 in fees. If I were to use AGR, there would be no additional fees and it would cost the same as if I were booking 10 months rom now!

 

[Ryan]

MSP-SEA is a 2 night trip (as is the return).

For a trip of the same duration, if you fly you're looking at paying for a hotel room for those 4 nights.

You'll also get 4 meals on the train each way, as opposed to 1 on the plane, so you're looking at paying for 6 meals that would otherwise be paid for on the train.

So if you're comparing apples to apples, it's $1411 to $825+4 nights in a hotel+6 meals. Depending on where you stay and what you eat, that can make a drastic difference.

 

[Exiled in Express]

I cam play this game too.

Ticketed to fly Spirit MSP-ORD this morning, $19.80 as I made the trip to the airport to book in person to avoid online convenience fees. Seat assignment would be $8 so I let it auto assign and got a middle seat with 30" leg room. Only travelling with a small backpack as a carry on bag exceeding 16" would be an additional $35. Got to the airport and got my government sanctioned groping. Departure time comes and goes, 15 minutes later an announcement is made that the flight is cancelled and all passengers are to queue at the ticket counter for reaccomodation. After 45 minutes in line I am offered a seat on the next available flight (32 hours later) or an option to surrender my boarding pass and request a refund be processed in several weeks.

This was a completely optional trip and I was unable to unwind everything at no cost. Amtrak would have been ~$95 after AAA, I would have got to my destination same day in comfort with as much baggage as I could carry, and earned ~10% of a free trip. Rail is not the end all of transportation options but neither is air. They can happily coexist and both have their off days.

 

[jebr]

I usually travel on an AGR award, and there are NO change fees AND it is fully refundable in points!

As an aside, I looked I to redeeming an award using Dividend Miles (DM) on US Airways for this week. Besides MORE (then the "usual") DM, I would also have to pay the "Security" fee, a "Quick Ticketing" fee and (I forget what) some other fee. thus it would cost me 40,000 DM (at least) PLUS another $110 in fees. If I were to use AGR, there would be no additional fees and it would cost the same as if I were booking 10 months rom now!

Most people don't have that many points sitting around in an account to travel with. If you charge everything on an AGR Mastercard, it's possible, but then you don't have the option of United points if need be.

MSP-SEA is a 2 night trip (as is the return).

For a trip of the same duration, if you fly you're looking at paying for a hotel room for those 4 nights.

You'll also get 4 meals on the train each way, as opposed to 1 on the plane, so you're looking at paying for 6 meals that would otherwise be paid for on the train.

So if you're comparing apples to apples, it's $1411 to $825+4 nights in a hotel+6 meals. Depending on where you stay and what you eat, that can make a drastic difference.

If it's a vacation. In that case, the calculations make sense. However, if I need to be in Seattle for a certain duration (or certain timeframe), the train travel is simply excess days that I would be spending at home or at work if I fly out. Then the calculation changes.

Rail is not the end all of transportation options but neither is air. They can happily coexist and both have their off days.

Exactly. Here's how it boils down, in my mind anyways.

Traveling coach, Amtrak is often cheaper than a coach flight. Also can involve an overnight, which is not a problem for me.

Traveling first class on both, Amtrak is often cheaper (though not always), but can also involve an overnight, which for business travel would be a "wasted day" or at minimum a day I would not be out if I flew. If it's considered part of the vacation, then it makes sense.

If coach travel is acceptable on a plane but not on a train (overnight travel on a train, and can't sleep in Amtrak coach), then flying would almost always win out over taking the train.

If flexibility is necessary, Amtrak can often win, since most refundable (or at least easily exchangeable fares) cost more than Amtrak costs.

 

[PRR 60]

MSP-SEA is a 2 night trip (as is the return).

For a trip of the same duration, if you fly you're looking at paying for a hotel room for those 4 nights.

You'll also get 4 meals on the train each way, as opposed to 1 on the plane, so you're looking at paying for 6 meals that would otherwise be paid for on the train.

So if you're comparing apples to apples, it's $1411 to $825+4 nights in a hotel+6 meals. Depending on where you stay and what you eat, that can make a drastic difference.

Why would you need a hotel for an extra four nights? Wouldn't you just leave for Seattle two days later and get home two days earlier? The extra four nights (and meals) would be at home.

 

[zephyr17]

I know upfront that traveling by sleeper is not a way to save money. I do it because I enjoy it, if getting there was the only consideration, I'd fly. With that said, I do have my limits and won't book if the accomodation charges are in high buckets, and I will fly instead in that case.

Right now $330 accomodation charge SEA-CHI seems to be the lowest bucket, or at least the lowest that is reasonably widely available. I am going from Everett, WA to Indianapolis this Christmas, for a total fare of $987. While not cheap, that isn't bad for a sleeper. Last year, I didn't book as early and the traveling by roomette was more in the $1400/1500 range that RRUserious found (don't remember the exact number). Well, last year I flew.

I have flown in First and while it is a whole lot better than coach, it still is not nearly as enjoyable as the train.

Just as an experiment, I quickly checked fares on AA.com on my Christmas travel dates. The best fares I found on American, which may not be the best, but can get it quickly, was $919.20. Restricted fare coach. First Class was over $3000. To be fair, I probably could have gotten lower fares back when I booked Amtrak.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Sun Country is based in MSP. The OP might be leaving from MSP so he got a really cheap price.

 

[Ryan]

MSP-SEA is a 2 night trip (as is the return).

For a trip of the same duration, if you fly you're looking at paying for a hotel room for those 4 nights.

You'll also get 4 meals on the train each way, as opposed to 1 on the plane, so you're looking at paying for 6 meals that would otherwise be paid for on the train.

So if you're comparing apples to apples, it's $1411 to $825+4 nights in a hotel+6 meals. Depending on where you stay and what you eat, that can make a drastic difference.

Why would you need a hotel for an extra four nights? Wouldn't you just leave for Seattle two days later and get home two days earlier? The extra four nights (and meals) would be at home.

That's why I bolded that part above. If I'm taking a vacation, I'm not going to spend 4 days of it sitting around the house because I'm flying and would get there faster.

As jebr said above, if I needed to be in Seattle for a fixed length of time, it would probably go the other way.

 

[pebbleworm]

I booked a roomette between San Francisco and Burlington Iowa- with a little flexibility I found decent fares and the whole trip cost about 1100.00 on the train, with a virtually guaranteed four days of leisure time. Airfare from SFO to St. Louis was $800 to $1600 round trip in coach, and then you have to either rent a car and drive the last leg, or take the essential air service deathtrap for another 236.00 round trip. I have the time and enjoy the train trip so it seemed pretty reasonable and equivalent in cost. Then to top it off, my daughter decided she wanted to come with me a week after I bought the tickets. That added a whopping $152.50 to the cost and certainly brought the average ticket cost down! I see this as a good example of the western long distance trains providing public transit to under-served areas of the country at a reasonable cost. You cannot beat the airlines in major market to major market flights, but once you veer off into Redneckistan all bets are off.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

I have traveled between SAS and ELP on a regular basis for two decades. I have traveled by plane, train, and automobile. Amtrak hasn't been substantially cheaper than any other option in years. Amtrak coach is usually priced similarly to flying in my experience. Amtrak bedrooms are generally more expensive than everything else, including first class airfare or even renting a limo. I ride Amtrak because I enjoy train travel and because it's among the greener options available to me. If cost or time were my primary considerations I doubt I'd be riding Amtrak at all.