Toilets and Toilet Paper on Amtrak (Merged)

[Train Rider]

See Forum Manager Comments about this below

Third - this is one of the most lenient boards on the internet in letting topics wander away from the original topic. And, that happens a lot, here.

No, it's not.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

If there isn't already something, maybe add a sticky to the "new rider" forum for information like this (explaining the limitations of the toilet/sewage processing").

 

[TVRM610]

I hope future Amtrak restroom designs will continue to follow the course of where society is headed. The new Viewliners are a great example of what was acceptable 30-50 years ago (not saying the VL are that old, just come from that design heritage) is no longer appropriate.

Yes exactly... the "toilet in a roomette idea" came from the Heritage cars. When I traveled on VIA.. I used the toilet provided in the sleeping car, not the one in my roomette. I like having the restroom area separate from my sleeping area. ha.

I have to applaud the Amtrak design though, a roomette with a sink, two seats, two beds, toilet, and luggage storage area was no simple design task and they made it work! Was it popular with everyone involved? No. But it worked!

I will miss the sink... was nice to brush my teeth and all in the room.

 

[VentureForth]

Word is that the sink will stay - only the toilet goes away.

 

[fairviewroad]

I hope future Amtrak restroom designs will continue to follow the course of where society is headed. The new Viewliners are a great example of what was acceptable 30-50 years ago (not saying the VL are that old, just come from that design heritage) is no longer appropriate.

Just curious, could you elaborate on this? What societal changes over the past 30-50 years are you referring to? What is it about a Viewliner that is not appropriate in today's society. As far as toilets in rooms vs. down the hall, I think having them in the room is a good marketing tool. But that's not really the issue here (in terms of what's OK to flush down the toilet).

 

[Bob Dylan]

Looks like the Bathroom Obsessed will turn this into another Endless Thread like the Infamous Toilet Paper Thread from a Couple of Years back! :wacko:

As the Old Saying goes: "The Job isn't over until the Paper Work is done!"

 

[VentureForth]

I hope future Amtrak restroom designs will continue to follow the course of where society is headed. The new Viewliners are a great example of what was acceptable 30-50 years ago (not saying the VL are that old, just come from that design heritage) is no longer appropriate.

Just curious, could you elaborate on this? What societal changes over the past 30-50 years are you referring to? What is it about a Viewliner that is not appropriate in today's society. As far as toilets in rooms vs. down the hall, I think having them in the room is a good marketing tool. But that's not really the issue here (in terms of what's OK to flush down the toilet).

I beleive that 50 years ago, there was perhaps a better tolerance of public restroom facilities. I think that increasingly we are becoming a private society. No sources - just observations. The toilet in the roomette was a novel idea. Probably hailed as revolutionary by some. But when I see a mom kicking out her two small kids into the hallway so she can use the toilet, I think that convenience and functionality has been trumped by privacy. Back in the direct-to-tracks days, it really didn't matter what went down the hole (unless you were in a station). Today with recirculating toilets and vacuum waste toilets, the concerns are much greater. Some folks don't necessarily understand the differences other than "Hey, I can't see the rail when I flush".

 

[Ispolkom]

The Viewliner roomettes are different, in that I can't think of another sleeper accommodation that I've been on that sleeps two and has an unenclosed toilet. Heritage roomettes, of course, had unenclosed toilets, but only slept one. Ditto for Slumbercoach singles. I don't think that Slumbercoach doubles (what the Viewliner roomette most resembles) had toilets, and Heritage double bedrooms had enclosed toilets. In Russia, even first class sleepers lacked private toilets.

 

[the_traveler]

The sink will remain in the Roomette. Only the in room toilet will disappear from the Viewliner Roomette.

 

[ehbowen]

The Viewliner roomettes are different, in that I can't think of another sleeper accommodation that I've been on that sleeps two and has an unenclosed toilet. Heritage roomettes, of course, had unenclosed toilets, but only slept one. Ditto for Slumbercoach singles. I don't think that Slumbercoach doubles (what the Viewliner roomette most resembles) had toilets, and Heritage double bedrooms had enclosed toilets. In Russia, even first class sleepers lacked private toilets.

Slumbercoach doubles did have unenclosed toilets. Also, the standard double bedroom in the heavyweight era and, in many instances, in the early years of the streamlined era also had unenclosed toilets. It wasn't until after WW2 that private annexes became more-or-less standard for double bedrooms.

 

[TVRM610]

So the new Viewliners will have in room sinks?

Anyone know this as fact? It's pretty handy to have the sink.

 

[jis]

MrFss...Excuse me but you don't own the thread either. I'm really tired of mods closing threads for no reason...

Let's get real! Afterall by delegation from the owner of the sight, the Mods really do own the threads as much as the guy who owns the Forum does. Contrary to popular belief the Forum owners have no obligation to abide by the First Amendment or any such. It is at their pleasure and descretion that we particpate. It is a good thing that they tend to be way more liberal than many other sites, and we applaud them for that.

 

[D.P. Roberts]

I hope future Amtrak restroom designs will continue to follow the course of where society is headed. The new Viewliners are a great example of what was acceptable 30-50 years ago (not saying the VL are that old, just come from that design heritage) is no longer appropriate.

I think society is changing - people do value privacy in the restrooms more than they used to. Going back much further, in medieval times many commodes were often "multiple seaters", so people could chat while going to the restroom! Even going back a few decades, feelings about privacy have changed. It used to be the norm that kids growing up would share bedrooms. Now, the norm seems to be that each child always gets his or her own bedroom. Outside of Amtrak, I know many colleges are struggling to adapt to new expectations - many college students have never shared a room with another person, and aren't interested in having roommates. Considering how old most dormitories are, figuring out how to turn most doubles into singles is going to be a major challenge.

Aside from the increased expectations of privacy, more and more people from outside the US are coming here with different expectations of how a restroom is supposed to work. For example, I've seen this situation several times myself:

Here at work, for some dumb reason, people keep flushing PAPER TOWELS down the toilet.

In my experience, people who are used to "squatting" (which is common in many countries around the world) are not prepared to sit on an actual toilet like we do here. They often line the seat with paper towels, and then stand/squat on the seat. Basically, they're trying to adapt an American plumbing system to their own standards of cleanliness, which they feel that our system does not reach. Unfortunately, our facilities aren't usually that flexible, and the paper towels (or other problems) cause a mess or a plumbing problem.

A quick Google search will show you a variety of different facilities that work in quite different ways than we're used to. I think most Westerners have just as hard a time adapting to those customs as people from outside the US have in adapting to an Amtrak restroom.

 

[white rabbitt]

the mods have a right to lock threads when they start offending people

 

[Ispolkom]

Slumbercoach doubles did have unenclosed toilets. Also, the standard double bedroom in the heavyweight era and, in many instances, in the early years of the streamlined era also had unenclosed toilets. It wasn't until after WW2 that private annexes became more-or-less standard for double bedrooms.

I stand corrected. It's been, oh, 16 years since I last used a Slumbercoach double. As for pre-war sleepers, I am sure you are correct, all of that stuff was retired by the time I started riding trains. I'll have to pull down White's The American Railroad Passenger Car and refresh my memory.

 

[ScottC4746]

Only use the supplies from Amtrak aboard trains.
And this thread is being locked also!

My last trip on SWC#3 the quality of Amtrak issues TP has improved, not to be squeezable softness like Charmin, but at least it is not catalogue or magazine type paper as it used to be.

 

[crescent2]

I guess I missed the truly offensive posts. But then I'm used to second graders and their bathroom humor. I've seen other threads deteriorate (a specific poster comes to mind), so I, too, was puzzled when these were locked. I've no problem with the moderators' right to lock them, though, at their discretion.

I do think this is a legitimate thread. Passengers who do not camp, use RV's, etc. are probably oblivious to the fact that the train's sewage system is any different from their municipal system in what it can handle. Only a few years ago did I become aware that RV's require special toilet paper, for example, as we've never used one. While they probably shouldn't, even on a municipal system, many people are accustomed to flushing baby wipes, tampons, Kleenex, etc. And judging from all the signs in public restrooms, apparently there are problems with flushing paper towels and pads, too.

I agree with the suggestion that Amtrak needs to post small signs in all restrooms to let passengers know not to flush anything but the Amtrak-provided supplies, and why. Knowing the reason for a rule makes it much easier for some people to follow, in my experience.

 

[GG-1]

MrFss...Excuse me but you don't own the thread either. I'm really tired of mods closing threads for no reason...

It was closed because the staff felt there was a reason.

Aloha

When I was asked to join the staff here I did so with the understanding we would operate as a group. And we do! But when I see something that I feel is beyond limits, I will Lock/Hide any Message/Thread, that in my opinion that is out of bounds. Then I send a notice to the other mods, and as a group a decision is made whether to continue the lock or UN-hide the questionable item. Only when a group decision is made is anything deleted.

I am extremely pleased with the operation, concerns, and diversity of the moderation team.

 

[pennyk]

MrFss...Excuse me but you don't own the thread either. I'm really tired of mods closing threads for no reason...

It was closed because the staff felt there was a reason.

Aloha

When I was asked to join the staff here I did so with the understanding we would operate as a group. And we do! But when I see something that I feel is beyond limits, I will Lock/Hide any Message/Thread, that in my opinion that is out of bounds. Then I send a notice to the other mods, and as a group a decision is made whether to continue the lock or UN-hide the questionable item. Only when a group decision is made is anything deleted.

I am extremely pleased with the operation, concerns, and diversity of the moderation team.

I would like to insert my "two cents" (or one cent as the case may be). I am extremely impressed with the moderators' decisions to either hide or lock certain threads. I believe the truly offensive posts were hidden after they were reported so most of us were not subjected to them. In other threads, I have reported what I considered inappropriate posts and I think decisions were made in a thoughtful and logical manner. I think we are very fortunate to have such dedicated (non-compensated) staff to administer this forum. Thank you moderators!! :wub:

 

[crescent2]

Ditto, penny!

 

[rrdude]

the mods have a right to lock threads when they start offending people

But don't forget, just like the radio dial, which you can SWITCH if you don't like the song/commentary/topic, no one is FORCING anyone to read the postings here. If u don't like it, "skip it".

I can live with idea of changing the thread name or topic.... But locking or deleting should ONLY BE DONE in extreme cases. (IMHO, name-calling, spurious insults, predjudices, politics, blatent lies or mistruths, ......among others)

But because a thread got silly, or went off-topic? No.

 

[BCL]

The toilet paper I've seen is Georgia-Pacific Envision 1-ply. I saw an extra roll placed on the deck of the toilet seat. It didn't look like anything that was specifically designed for this use, but it might have been on an approved list of TP that was tested.

Also - most of the toilets I've used don't have any blue liquid like you see on a plane or in a Port-A-Let. It comes out clear.

 

[roomette]

In a coach public restroom, yes. But, I've never seen an "ass-gasket" dispenser in a Viewliner Roomette. Anyone else?

 

[crescent2]

I don't recall ever seeing them in our sleepers, but that's the kind of detail I probably wouldn't remember anyway. It would be a welcome addition, though.

 

[BCL]

I do think this is a legitimate thread. Passengers who do not camp, use RV's, etc. are probably oblivious to the fact that the train's sewage system is any different from their municipal system in what it can handle. Only a few years ago did I become aware that RV's require special toilet paper, for example, as we've never used one. While they probably shouldn't, even on a municipal system, many people are accustomed to flushing baby wipes, tampons, Kleenex, etc. And judging from all the signs in public restrooms, apparently there are problems with flushing paper towels and pads, too.

I once called up my local water system to ask if it was legal to dump antifreeze down the drain. It's legal in some jurisdictions, but it's locally decided. I was told that their sewage system could handle small quantities of almost anything, but we weren't "supposed to" do it. It seemed almost like a hint to go ahead and dump it, but I just collected it and dropped the used antifreeze off at my county's residential (they don't take anything from businesses) hazwaste collection facility. However, a municipal sewage system probably has a very wide trap and is constantly being flushed with relatively new waste. Tampons, baby wipes, cigarettes, etc will just end up in the sewage and get filtered out eventually. As long as it's not overwhelmed with solids, it should be OK. That could be reasonably anticipated with a municipal sewage system. Now a captive system like on a train is another matter.

Since we're on the subject, about a week ago I was at Santa Clara-GAC when I noticed a maintenance vehicle parked next to one of the Port-A-Lets next to the station. I'm not sure who uses them as they're usually locked and not available to train passengers or the public. I don't think they're for the new 49ers stadium construction crew, which has several on site and in the dirt lot across from GAC. It was actually a lot less dramatic than I thought it would be. All he did was insert a wide hose (maybe 8") and it was sucked into the onboard tank. It didn't look terribly messy or anything.