SWC Reroute

[printman2000]

Just read on another board that there is an article on Trains Mag website stating that BNSF is suggesting a reroute of the SWC to stay on the transcon.

Obviously, living in Amarillo, this is of great interest to me. I also know it has been rumored and discussed MANY times before. However, this is the first time I have heard of BNSF suggesting it and it also being from a credible source.

I do not have a subscription so I cannot see the article. As of right now (10/30/09 @ 4:08pm CT) there is a link to it on their front page.

Anyone have any additional info or have read the article and give us any additional pertinent info?

 

[whistler]

http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.p...=46&t=66308

 

[DET63]

The main issue seems to be that there is no freight traffic between Lamy and Trinidad, and only a couple of freight trains a week between Lamy and Albuquerque. Does it make sense to maintain a track for two passenger trains, one in each direction, a day?

Well, maybe, since I believe the state of New Mexico now owns and maintains the track, not BNSF. But can New Mexico afford to keep the track up? Perhaps the state would like to sell the track to a short-line freight railroad, but would that railroad use it enough to not abandon it?

 

[anir dendroica]

As of now, the SWC has a 43-hour schedule between Chicago and LA, which makes it the fastest of the LD trains, averaging 52.5 mph. Any idea how much could be shaved off of this with a re-route and perhaps more 90mph running? Averaging 60 mph would shave off 5.5 hours. Averaging 70 mph would shave off almost 11 hours. Granted, some changes would be needed to avoid arriving or departing the end terminals in the middle of the night.

 

[GregL]

As of now, the SWC has a 43-hour schedule between Chicago and LA, which makes it the fastest of the LD trains, averaging 52.5 mph. Any idea how much could be shaved off of this with a re-route and perhaps more 90mph running? Averaging 60 mph would shave off 5.5 hours. Averaging 70 mph would shave off almost 11 hours. Granted, some changes would be needed to avoid arriving or departing the end terminals in the middle of the night.

About fifteen years ago the SWC departed Chicago about 5:30-6:00 PM. Now it departs about 3:00PM. They could leave a little later again, that would fit into my schedule a little better.

GregL

 

[henryj]

As of now, the SWC has a 43-hour schedule between Chicago and LA, which makes it the fastest of the LD trains, averaging 52.5 mph. Any idea how much could be shaved off of this with a re-route and perhaps more 90mph running? Averaging 60 mph would shave off 5.5 hours. Averaging 70 mph would shave off almost 11 hours. Granted, some changes would be needed to avoid arriving or departing the end terminals in the middle of the night.

I looked this up some time ago using old Official Guides of the period and there is virtually no difference in timing running one route vs another. So the only benefit of rerouting via the old San Francisco Chief route would be to serve Amarillo, Whichita and a few other towns. However, you by pass Albuquerque and Raton and Trinidad(and also Santa Fe) which means thousands of boy scouts that use the train to get to Raton would have to find other transportation. NM wants to start up service between Albuquerque and Denver, but over that distance the train would take 10 to 11 hours or more making it basically a one train a day service unless you had a night train also. If they want to shake up service in that territory, perhaps it's time to consider reinstating service between Dallas, Tx and Denver also. Santa Fe RR used to connect from Denver in La Junta before Amtrak so there are lots of possibilities, but then we are talking Amtrak here. lol.

The real reason of course is to stop maintaining that route to passenger train standards for just two trains a day. Since NM owns much of the track now, it's really up to them to decide what they want to do.

 

[dart330]

What other stops would be added besides Wichita and Amarillo?

 

[printman2000]

What other stops would be added besides Wichita and Amarillo?

Here are some I listed before with populations...

Clovis, NM - 33,000

Hereford, TX - 14,000

Canyon, TX - 13,000

Amarillo, Tx - 185,000

Pampa, TX - 17,000

Woodward, OK - 12,000

Wichita, KS - 350,000

 

[ATSFNewton]

A number of months ago I had reported on a conversation I'd had with an Amtrak conductor while traveling on the SWC. At the time, he said there was a plan to divert the SWC south from Newton to Amarillo and on to Belen. There were two issues he mentioned. One was that NM, as the new owner of the old BNSF line over Raton Pass, did not want to have to maintain the tunnel long-term. Second, Amtrak was waiting on completion of the Roadrunner from Belen to Santa Fe, with a plan to use that line to get passengers from Belen to ABQ.

A number of writers on this forum reacted that they felt this simply couldn't be true. I've heard nothing more on this since.

 

[Ryan]

which means thousands of boy scouts that use the train to get to Raton would have to find other transportation.

As one of the thousands of Scouts that has made the trip (my first LD Train trip in 1994), I'd hate to see this happen for sentimental reasons. I'd like to make the trip with my own son one day, but that's 8 or 10 years away for us.

 

[AlanB]

However, you by pass Albuquerque and Raton and Trinidad(and also Santa Fe) which means thousands of boy scouts that use the train to get to Raton would have to find other transportation.

It might take a bit of work, not a lot, but it would still be possible to serve Albuquerque with a rerouted Chief. Raton or Trinidad would indeed be history though.

 

[RailFanLNK]

A woman on my delivery route had her son and husband board the SWC in KCY to go to RAT for the Boy Scout camp. I gave them my 40 tips sheet about Amtrak which really helped them out and the group of Boy Scouts had a blast. So I hope they can keep that part of the route if possible.

 

[DET63]

If they take the train out of Trinidad, what will happen to the folks who use it to go up there for a sex-change operation?

Like this guy gal:

 

[Guest]

If they take the train out of Trinidad, what will happen to the folks who use it to go up there for a sex-change operation?
Like this guy gal:

Guess the train that conductor works will always have 2 conductors on board even when she/he works alone! :blink:

 

[Casinocim]

However, you by pass Albuquerque and Raton and Trinidad(and also Santa Fe) which means thousands of boy scouts that use the train to get to Raton would have to find other transportation.

It might take a bit of work, not a lot, but it would still be possible to serve Albuquerque with a rerouted Chief. Raton or Trinidad would indeed be history though.

This just does not sound good. From Denver I have to take a bus to Raton to get on the SWC to get to L.A.

More hours on a bus to get to L.A. just stinks :angry:

Why does Denver get left out of Amtrak?

 

[Ryan]

Err, Denver sees the CZ every day, that's a heck of a lot more than some cities get.

 

[printman2000]

I live in Amarillo and would love to have service here. I currently have to drive 4 hours to Lamy to catch a train.

Since moving here in 2005, I have seen two re-routes through here. One was when they had heavy snowfall in Raton. Both 3 & 4 rerouted on the transcon for several days.

The other happened in June of this year (2009) when a bridge somewhere around Raton burned. I believe it was rerouted for only one day.

Both times, I was out to watch them come through town. It was awesome to see Amtrak here.

Anyway, Albuquerque was somehow served both times. Not sure how, but they did it. Anyone know how this was handled those times?

 

[printman2000]

I seemed to have found the answer to my question. Jim55 rode one of the detoured trains and posted info here.

Seems there is a wye around a mile south of the Albuquerque station.

Here is it on Google maps... http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Albuquerque,...mp;t=h&om=1

Seems like it could be a viable long term option. Google maps show it to be 2.8 miles from the wye to the Albuquerque station.

 

[Casinocim]

Err, Denver sees the CZ every day, that's a heck of a lot more than some cities get.

Hey, what can I say, I want a perfect rail system. A train in Denver to every point I ever want to get to.

My first wish is to see a train come through Denver, to Las Vegas, to L.A. Not having to go up to Salt Lake City.

 

[printman2000]

Err, Denver sees the CZ every day, that's a heck of a lot more than some cities get.

Hey, what can I say, I want a perfect rail system. A train in Denver to every point I ever want to get to.

My first wish is to see a train come through Denver, to Las Vegas, to L.A. Not having to go up to Salt Lake City.

I just want a train going anywhere! I would even settle for having a thruway bus!

 

[Rob_C]

NM, CO and maybe TX need to get their heads together and get funding for an ABQ, DEN train supported by the states. Maybe terminating in Belen with a Chief connection on the transcon. This could be modeled after the Heartland Flyer connection schedule with the Eagles. *shrug* Only drawback I see is ABQ loses a one seat ride to just about anywhere but DEN.

 

[Casinocim]

Err, Denver sees the CZ every day, that's a heck of a lot more than some cities get.

Hey, what can I say, I want a perfect rail system. A train in Denver to every point I ever want to get to.

My first wish is to see a train come through Denver, to Las Vegas, to L.A. Not having to go up to Salt Lake City.

I just want a train going anywhere! I would even settle for having a thruway bus!

That must be very frustrating for you.

When reading this thread, my concern is, if they would cut out Raton, Lamy/Santa Fe, would Amtrak continue the thruway bus from Denver down in to NM?

On one of my SWC trips, for some reason, my thruway bus was late. So the thruway made a drive all the way down to Albuquerque. Which if I remember correctly was at least a 7 hour ride. And there were only 3 of us on that bus. I just hate the thought of being on a bus longer. When I go Amtrak, I want to ride on the train, not a bus.

The thruway from Denver to Raton, at least when I have been on it, is never full. Maybe the most 10 but I think less. Would it be worth it to Amtrak to continue this thruway with so few people?

I guess I'm surprised they have a thruway at all to NM. It will be interesting to see if there are more people on there when I ride before Christmas.

Yes, we have the CZ. But what a long haul to L.A.

Let's start our own train. Wherever you want to go we will take you!

 

[henryj]

I live in Amarillo and would love to have service here. I currently have to drive 4 hours to Lamy to catch a train.

Anyway, Albuquerque was somehow served both times. Not sure how, but they did it. Anyone know how this was handled those times?

The San Francisco Chief served Albuquerque via a connecting bus. But, the train carried through sleepers from Chicago to Lubbock via Amarillo. Now days Railrunner would serve as the connecting train to Albuquerque and Santa Fe. Like the man said, Raton and Trinidad are just our of luck. But you gain Wichita, pop 360,000 and Amarillo, pop 200,000 plus Lubbock is nearby, pop 250,000 and you lose only Trinidad, pop 9.000 and Raton, 7,000. Might be a good trade. The Raton route has interesting scenery, but not that interesting. If you put on a Denver to Albuquerque day train then people can still get to Raton and Trinidad from Chicago and the Midwest via the CZ/Denver and from the west via Belen.

Now if we could only get that Texas Zephyr from Dallas to Denver back and service between Houston and Dallas.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Hey, what can I say, I want a perfect rail system. A train in Denver to every point I ever want to get to.

You know, you don't really want that. If we had a system that wasteful, very quickly we'd have no system at all. Amtrak can only justify itself by being efficient and heavily loaded.

Congress has a tough time killing the system if all the trains are full and passenger counts keep expanding. They can, and will, oppose Amtrak on ideological grounds (government-operated business) but that's where it ends. They wouldn't have a leg to stand on about "government waste" when it is a service used and valued by everyone.

Contemplate how hard it would be to actually get rid of Medicare. Which is why you know it isn't going away with the new health plan. Killing it is political suicide and politicians mantra is self-preservation.

Show pictures of empty Amtrak trains running from Norfolk to Cattlettsberg, however, and you can start laughing at the waste and calling the late unlamented Hilltopper the Staggers Special or Byrd Express.

 

[dart330]

What happens to the cities that would lose service? Are they just wiped from the map? Any thruway service? Is Amtrak obligated in any way to maintain service at any level to smaller communities (knowing major routes have been wiped out before, I am guessing not), or do they just focus on getting from A to B (LA to Chicago) with whatever communities they pick up on the way just having luck of the draw? I would think this would have a major negative economic impact on those communities.

I lived in Dodge City for 3 years and know they spent a lot of time and money restoring the station there. Shame for it to go to waste. Plus they just lost air service to KC, so losing the train service would be another major loss. Just sad to see the little towns like that fall off the public transit grid. I'm sure not driving there anytime soon....