Survey shows strong interest in adding bike service to Capitol Limited

[j653]

Thanks Amtrak will listen?

The Great Allegheny Passage and the C&O Canal Towpath connect in Cumberland, MD, to create a continuous biking or hiking pathway from Pittsburgh to DC. This non-motorized route parallels the rail line that carries Amtrak’s Capitol Limited route, which provides service from Chicago to Pittsburgh to DC. This ready-made shuttling service by rail presents a great opportunity for bicyclists who wish to transport themselves and their bikes to a destination and bike back to their starting point, or vice versa.
The Trail Town Program and Allegheny Trail Alliance recently conducted an online survey to determine how much consumer interest there is for Amtrak to expand upon its bicycle service on the Capitol Limited route. The Trail Town Outreach Corps compiled the results from nearly 1,300 individuals who completed the survey. Here is what we learned:

http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=1...id=174968430389

 

[transit54]

To add roll-on, roll-off service, you'd have to modify a Superliner and have a captive pool of equipment for the CL. But I think allowing unboxed bikes to be checked as baggage (and increasing the number of stops with checked baggage service) would be a realistic solution.

 

[AlanB]

Actually I'm not so sure that you'd have to modify the Superliners. I've never measured the locker, and I'm sure that one would have to remove the handlebars and possibly the pedals, but there is a locker on the outside of the Superliner cars that can carry skies and other long objects like that. Each car can probably only hold one bike max, but still that would give them the capacity for at least 5 or 6 bikes, depending on the number of coaches. Not sure if those lockers are also available on the dining cars and lounge cars, but they do exist on all sleepers and coaches.

 

[wayman]

Thanks Amtrak will listen?

The Great Allegheny Passage and the C&O Canal Towpath connect in Cumberland, MD, to create a continuous biking or hiking pathway from Pittsburgh to DC. This non-motorized route parallels the rail line that carries Amtrak’s Capitol Limited route, which provides service from Chicago to Pittsburgh to DC. This ready-made shuttling service by rail presents a great opportunity for bicyclists who wish to transport themselves and their bikes to a destination and bike back to their starting point, or vice versa.
The Trail Town Program and Allegheny Trail Alliance recently conducted an online survey to determine how much consumer interest there is for Amtrak to expand upon its bicycle service on the Capitol Limited route. The Trail Town Outreach Corps compiled the results from nearly 1,300 individuals who completed the survey. Here is what we learned:

http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=1...id=174968430389

There was a great article about this trail in the NY Times recently: Biking Coal Country's Tracks and Tunnels. And the lead photo is of the Western Maryland Scenic Railroad, which parallels the first portion of the trail, from Cumberland to Frostburg. It's not just cool for railfans: the WMd takes you up part of the steepest grade on the trail, and allows you to take your bike on board. The distance from the Cumberland Amtrak station to the Cumberland WMd station is only half a mile.

So, if the Capitol Limited allowed bikes, I can envision some really nifty intermodal rail/bike trips becoming possible, from the really simple:

Pittsburgh-Cumberland on Amtrak (arriving around 10 AM), WMd to Frostburg (uphill), bike back to Cumberland (downhill), Cumberland-Pittsburgh on Amtrak (leaving around 7 PM). It's a long one-day trip, and yes, you can rent a bike in Cumberland so there's no real need to bring your own, but it'd be nifty. (Washingtonians could of course do the same if they spent a couple nights in Cumberland.)

... to the most serious one-way bike ride:

Pittsburgh-Cumberland on Amtrak, and biking home again!

... with a lot of possibilities in-between. I hope this happens!

 

[PaulM]

Actually I'm not so sure that you'd have to modify the Superliners. I've never measured the locker, and I'm sure that one would have to remove the handlebars and possibly the pedals, but there is a locker on the outside of the Superliner cars that can carry skies and other long objects like that. Each car can probably only hold one bike max, but still that would give them the capacity for at least 5 or 6 bikes, depending on the number of coaches. Not sure if those lockers are also available on the dining cars and lounge cars, but they do exist on all sleepers and coaches.

I've often thought about using the so-called ski lockers for bicycles. I wouldn't be surprised if they could hold at least two bicycles each, since they extend the entire width of the car. Rotating the handlebars parallel to the bike would help considerably. But removing them would be problematic; and I don't think it wouldn reduce the volume much compared to rotating them.

Also, what about a coach-baggage car? Couldn't a cyclist board though the baggage door and bungee or lock their bike to a luggage rack post or attachment on the wall - nothing high tech? Is there a shortage of these cars, or would that reduce coach capacity too much?

But there is always Amtrak's "no new service" mindset, even for something that wouldn't cost anything, except a few minutes dwell time to handle passengers they wouldn't otherwise have.

 

[PaulM]

There was a great article about this trail in the NY Times recently: Biking Coal Country's Tracks and Tunnels. And the lead photo is of the Western Maryland Scenic Railroad, which parallels the first portion of the trail, from Cumberland to Frostburg. It's not just cool for railfans: the WMd takes you up part of the steepest grade on the trail, and allows you to take your bike on board. The distance from the Cumberland Amtrak station to the Cumberland WMd station is only half a mile.
So, if the Capitol Limited allowed bikes, I can envision some really nifty intermodal rail/bike trips becoming possible, from the really simple:

Pittsburgh-Cumberland on Amtrak (arriving around 10 AM), WMd to Frostburg (uphill), bike back to Cumberland (downhill), Cumberland-Pittsburgh on Amtrak (leaving around 7 PM). It's a long one-day trip, and yes, you can rent a bike in Cumberland so there's no real need to bring your own, but it'd be nifty. (Washingtonians could of course do the same if they spent a couple nights in Cumberland.)

... to the most serious one-way bike ride:

Pittsburgh-Cumberland on Amtrak, and biking home again!

... with a lot of possibilities in-between. I hope this happens!

I believe Pittsburgh to Cumberland is much more popular with cyclists than the other way round. The climb from Pittsburgh to the eastern continental divide near the Big Savage Tunnel is almost imperceptible. The view of the Cumberland Narrows as you come out of the tunnel is spectacular; and the descent into Cumberland is exhilarating.

I've biked Pittsburgh - DC, arriving in Pittsburgh on the eastbound CL and returning on the westbound from DC. I've also done the Cumberland - DC part, but needed a SAG wagon to get to Cumberland. One problem is the long distances between lodging on the Cumberland - DC stretch, which leaves some interested riders out.

A Connellsville - Cumberland ride would be great. If you come from the west, the timing is perfect: arriving in Connellsville around 7AM and returning from Cumberland around 7PM with overnight in Confluence and Meyersdale, perhaps.

The Great Allegheny Passage/C&O Canal is indeed a rolling civil engineering museum.

 

[AlanB]

Also, what about a coach-baggage car? Couldn't a cyclist board though the baggage door and bungee or lock their bike to a luggage rack post or attachment on the wall - nothing high tech? Is there a shortage of these cars, or would that reduce coach capacity too much?

There are 43 of those cars, so I suspect that they have more than enough to setup the Capitol that way. The issues are that you do loose 13 seats and they are critical lower level seats, which are often in high demand. And of course people might start clamoring for similar service on other runs, and 43 cars wouldn't cover all the Superliner runs.

 

[profwebs]

I requested info on the GAP trail earlier this year. It included a map of the trail and also came with a guide of The Laurel Highlands. I haven't lived here for long and I didn't know how much there was to do so close to home.

I'm thinking about biking or hiking the trail next year. You can request the info here.

 

[transit54]

Actually I'm not so sure that you'd have to modify the Superliners. I've never measured the locker, and I'm sure that one would have to remove the handlebars and possibly the pedals, but there is a locker on the outside of the Superliner cars that can carry skies and other long objects like that. Each car can probably only hold one bike max, but still that would give them the capacity for at least 5 or 6 bikes, depending on the number of coaches. Not sure if those lockers are also available on the dining cars and lounge cars, but they do exist on all sleepers and coaches.

But having to remove pedals and/or handlebars wouldn't be the "roll-on roll-off" solution that the group is seeking. The survey indicates a significant decrease in riders likely to use the service if their bike needs to be disassembled. If one could fit a bike in the lockers without said modifications (and/or only required removal of the front wheel, which is very easy), then I agree that would be the best solution. Short of that, checking unboxed bikes as luggage seems to be the best option. Most people (including myself) have a real aversion to trying to disassemble their bikes, even if its something they could manage to do if they tried.

 

[Rumpled]

As we fairly regularly see ?'s here about bringing bikes on board; I think that adding bike capabilities to train cars would be good.

I'm most familiar with our Surfliner cars and each coach has storage for three bikes (or surfboards!; though I've not seen that yet.)

I'm not sure of the exact layout of other Superliners, but I think it would be a pretty easy refurb to put similar racks on them.

Spread it as systemwide as far as possible, there are many places where riding the rails and bikes fit together.

 

[PaulM]

And of course people might start clamoring for similar service on other runs, and 43 cars wouldn't cover all the Superliner runs.

Yeh, you can't have new passengers clamoring for service. To avoid this, I would simply institute a rule that says any route that has a very scenic and historic 325 mile bike trail paralleling it gets a coach baggage car.

 

[PaulM]

But having to remove pedals and/or handlebars wouldn't be the "roll-on roll-off" solution that the group is seeking. The survey indicates a significant decrease in riders likely to use the service if their bike needs to be disassembled. If one could fit a bike in the lockers without said modifications (and/or only required removal of the front wheel, which is very easy), then I agree that would be the best solution. Short of that, checking unboxed bikes as luggage seems to be the best option. Most people (including myself) have a real aversion to trying to disassemble their bikes, even if its something they could manage to do if they tried.

1. Without being there with a ruler, I can't say for sure; but I think the ski lockers would hold two bikes without doing anything. I'm taking the CZ in about 10 days; and I'll check them out.

2. I doubt you are talking about removing the handlebars; that would require disconnecting the brake and derailleur cables. And why? Removing the handlebar from the stem and letting it dangle is doable, but why? On the other hand, turning the handlebars parallel to the frame might buy you enough room to hold an additional two. Turning them is a simple adjustment, not dis-assembly.

3. Why would anyone want to remove the front wheel? It wouldn't buy you any space; and what are you going to do with it? Think about the Amtrak bike boxes. They are much smaller than the lockers; and you don't remove the front wheel. I'm not saying you don't have at least one Amtrak manager who agrees with you. See a weird new policy (#3).

3. I wouldn't attempt to bike on the GAP/C&O trail between any two Amtrak stations unless I felt comfortable doing simple adjustments and repairs, and had the necessary tools. If you have a break down, your best bet would be to swim across the river and hop a CSX freight.

4. I doubt the seriousness of survey respondents who say they would only use the service if it was roll-on roll-off.

5. I tend to agree with you about checked baggage. But I'm sure many could explain why baggage service is a cross between rocket science and brain surgery.

 

[Upstate]

3. Why would anyone want to remove the front wheel? It wouldn't buy you any space; and what are you going to do with it? Think about the Amtrak bike boxes. They are much smaller than the lockers; and you don't remove the front wheel. I'm not saying you don't have at least one Amtrak manager who agrees with you. See a weird new policy (#3).

Removing the front wheel lets you turn the handlebars sideways easily and when you stack the wheel next to the frame it buys a ton of space. I don't know how it all works with the train cars, but taking the front wheel off my bike allows me to lay my bike in the trunk of my mid sized sedan.

 

[Kramerica]

Spread it as systemwide as far as possible, there are many places where riding the rails and bikes fit together.

I really wish the Hiawatha would allow roll-on bikes. Both Chicago and Milwaukee are great biking cities. I'd love to take my bike to Chicago on the train, but instead I have to drive it down there.

 

[user 683]

I know a number of folks who would take advantage of any reasonable opportunity to take their bike on the train between DC, Harpers Ferry, Cumberland and Pittsburgh. Of course, reasonable is subject to individual interpretation. I for one would be willing to bring a few tools to remove pedals and adjust handle bars if it meant I could place the bike in the passenger car or other suitable location elsewhere on the train.

Perhaps I missed this somewhere else - does anyone know if Amtrak rents "bike boxes"? For example, could I rent a bike box at WAS and return it when getting off the train at my destination?

Deimos

Follow-up to last.... I saw in another thread that Amtrak sells bike boxes. Ok, great. But, I was still interested in a "one time" use option since then I would not need to think about what I would do with the bike box when I'm riding around. And, in the case of riding the C&O, for example, I could basically take the train in one direction and ride the bike in the other.

 

[Donctor]

I know a number of folks who would take advantage of any reasonable opportunity to take their bike on the train between DC, Harpers Ferry, Cumberland and Pittsburgh. Of course, reasonable is subject to individual interpretation. I for one would be willing to bring a few tools to remove pedals and adjust handle bars if it meant I could place the bike in the passenger car or other suitable location elsewhere on the train.
Perhaps I missed this somewhere else - does anyone know if Amtrak rents "bike boxes"? For example, could I rent a bike box at WAS and return it when getting off the train at my destination?

Deimos

Follow-up to last.... I saw in another thread that Amtrak sells bike boxes. Ok, great. But, I was still interested in a "one time" use option since then I would not need to think about what I would do with the bike box when I'm riding around. And, in the case of riding the C&O, for example, I could basically take the train in one direction and ride the bike in the other.

The bike boxes Amtrak sells are of the collapsable cardboard variety. They are cheap and flimsy. There is no way to "rent" one of those. Renting one would be like renting an old moving box.

 

[user 683]

I know a number of folks who would take advantage of any reasonable opportunity to take their bike on the train between DC, Harpers Ferry, Cumberland and Pittsburgh. Of course, reasonable is subject to individual interpretation. I for one would be willing to bring a few tools to remove pedals and adjust handle bars if it meant I could place the bike in the passenger car or other suitable location elsewhere on the train.
Perhaps I missed this somewhere else - does anyone know if Amtrak rents "bike boxes"? For example, could I rent a bike box at WAS and return it when getting off the train at my destination?

Deimos

Follow-up to last.... I saw in another thread that Amtrak sells bike boxes. Ok, great. But, I was still interested in a "one time" use option since then I would not need to think about what I would do with the bike box when I'm riding around. And, in the case of riding the C&O, for example, I could basically take the train in one direction and ride the bike in the other.

The bike boxes Amtrak sells are of the collapsable cardboard variety. They are cheap and flimsy. There is no way to "rent" one of those. Renting one would be like renting an old moving box.

Thanks.... I was thinking this was the case. Basically, I was just hoping for a way to use a reasonably secure bike box without the hastle of storing it somewhere when I didn't need it.