Surfliner becoming expensive

[WhoozOn1st]

Invest in more public transportation. Add more cars. Double track the right of way. Rail is a public good.

Off the main gist, Surfliner/Coaster route doubletracking in progress at Carlsbad, seen 11-26-11:

From aboard private varnish sleeper Pacific Sands, attached to Pacific Surfliner 566.

​

 

[RRUserious]

Another thing that occurs to me in this federal budget-cutting environment. Management is probably under pressure to charge a larger percentage of what a trip costs. The pressure for the "cheap seat" has helped make airlines go into bankruptcy. Customers will have to go with what is most affordable to them. But management can't make pricing decisions in this business environment on the basis of "oh if we raise the price people will switch to cheaper alternatives". It is mistaken to think somehow you can always pay less and the taxpayer or the lenders to the government will pick up the difference. Discounting has devastated the American landscape, people who always assume they are being overcharged. That's the Sam Walton world view. But at some point, business has to push back any way it can.

 

[Spokker]

They lost me as a passenger and will operate an even emptier train at 10:10PM out of Los Angeles.

Get ready to be called a whiner, you whiner!

I was going to go to LA the other day. Take Metrolink there, Pacific Surfliner back at night. Decided not to because a one-way trip between Anaheim and LA is $14. Just didn't go.
It's getting to the point where even if I take the train, I'm afraid of taking a bag because I don't want it to be searched. So when I do take the train it's for non-productive purposes.

 

[Spokker]

But at some point, business has to push back any way it can.

Assuming Amtrak is a business.
Transportation is hardly a competitive business environment. Either until all subsidies end or rail is put on a level playing field with roads, it won't happen.

 

[Oldsmoboi]

Use it or lose it. Be thankful you have the option. I prefer to take the train over driving for almost all of my long distance trips, but I only have the Pennsylvanian and the Capitol Ltd to choose from.

 

[AlanB]

The ticket revenue cost recovery numbers for the 3 California trains is not very good, so the state of California is kicking in a lot to keep the prices as low as $16. And will have to kick in more in FY2013 looking at the Amtrak May monthly report.

The State of California actually controls the prices to my knowledge, not Amtrak. That's why reason why the trains remain unreserved, because that's what the State wants. Not Amtrak.

 

[Spokker]

Use it or lose it. Be thankful you have the option. I prefer to take the train over driving for almost all of my long distance trips, but I only have the Pennsylvanian and the Capitol Ltd to choose from.

If I can't afford it then I can't take the train. That's the reality. The cost per mile exceeds that of the operating costs of my Honda Civic. Because I need the car for work and school anyway, I cannot get rid of the car so I must disregard fixed costs. If we had a proper bus system with local and rapid service where I live, I would make a Jewish car donation.

 

[VentureForth]

Invest in more public transportation. Add more cars. Double track the right of way. Rail is a public good.

Off the main gist, Surfliner/Coaster route doubletracking in progress at Carlsbad, seen 11-26-11:

From aboard private varnish sleeper Pacific Sands, attached to Pacific Surfliner 566.

​

With the porta potty there, I thought that was a pic of a new station.

Keep in mind, you don't get 100 AGR points riding Metrolink and Coaster. Maybe not a big deal...

 

[afigg]

The ticket revenue cost recovery numbers for the 3 California trains is not very good, so the state of California is kicking in a lot to keep the prices as low as $16. And will have to kick in more in FY2013 looking at the Amtrak May monthly report.

The State of California actually controls the prices to my knowledge, not Amtrak. That's why reason why the trains remain unreserved, because that's what the State wants. Not Amtrak.

Looking at the Route Performance tables in the monthly reports, the 3 CA corridor services operate at a deficit even with the state subsidy unless there are state payments that have been made later after the end of the FY. My interpretation is that Amtrak has been making up the difference with the annual federal operating grant. It is frustrating that the route performance reports are missing in the most recent monthly reports, but we have the numbers through May 2011. As of May, the Surfliner had $33.7 million in ticket revenue, $54.3 million in total revenue (which has to include state payments), $72.5 million in total costs, and a fully allocated loss of $21.6 million. That is the largest loss of all the state corridors with the Empire service a close second at $21.2 million.

Amtrak received only $466 million in the FY12 operating grant, $150 million less than they asked for. They may have to go to the states and ask the states to contribute more than previously agreed to for FY12, ahead of the requirement that the states provide the full subsidy for FY13. It will have to be negotiated and discussed on a state by state basis dependent on the agreements with the state and whether the state or state operating agency is able to provide additional contributions this FY. Amtrak can say, look, we are doing our part by cutting overhead with management and non-union buy-outs and RIFs, adopting e-ticketing to modernize our system, etc. California may set the ticket prices, but if Amtrak says to CA that we can't really afford to cover a $50 to 60 million operating shortfall for the FY, either you contribute some additional state funding or agree to raise ticket prices enough to cut the projected losses to something we can manage.

One result of the very lean FY12 $466 million operating grant subsidy is likely to be ticket price increases on state corridors and some aspects of the more aggressive revenue management approach that we see with the NEC and the LD trains.

 

[FunNut]

What is a private varnish sleeper? (post #26)

 

[Oldsmoboi]

Invest in more public transportation. Add more cars. Double track the right of way. Rail is a public good.

Off the main gist, Surfliner/Coaster route doubletracking in progress at Carlsbad, seen 11-26-11:

From aboard private varnish sleeper Pacific Sands, attached to Pacific Surfliner 566.

​

With the porta potty there, I thought that was a pic of a new station.

AmCrap

 

[WhoozOn1st]

What is a private varnish sleeper? (post #26)

Generically, "private varnish" means privately owned vintage passenger cars available for charters and excursions. Trip report soon about riding this particular one, the sleeper Pacific Sands.

L.A. Rail Vintage Rail Cars For Charter

 

[johnny.menhennet]

The ticket revenue cost recovery numbers for the 3 California trains is not very good, so the state of California is kicking in a lot to keep the prices as low as $16. And will have to kick in more in FY2013 looking at the Amtrak May monthly report.

The State of California actually controls the prices to my knowledge, not Amtrak. That's why reason why the trains remain unreserved, because that's what the State wants. Not Amtrak.

All segments of the San Joaquin are fully reserved... The other two are bot though

 

[bombcar]

http://reasonrail.blogspot.com/2011/12/pacific-surfliner-to-move-to-yield.html explains it:

As presented in the meeting’s agenda, Amtrak has already embarked upon the first phase of the new fare structure by keeping fares at the peak level of the summer months rather than reducing them following Labor Day, as had previously been the norm.

 

[sportbiker]

http://reasonrail.blogspot.com/2011/12/pacific-surfliner-to-move-to-yield.html explains it:

As presented in the meeting’s agenda, Amtrak has already embarked upon the first phase of the new fare structure by keeping fares at the peak level of the summer months rather than reducing them following Labor Day, as had previously been the norm.

Now it all makes sense. Thank you for posting that! It's a huge change to the Surfliner SOP.

 

[Anderson]

http://reasonrail.bl...e-to-yield.html explains it:

As presented in the meeting's agenda, Amtrak has already embarked upon the first phase of the new fare structure by keeping fares at the peak level of the summer months rather than reducing them following Labor Day, as had previously been the norm.

Now it all makes sense. Thank you for posting that! It's a huge change to the Surfliner SOP.

Honestly, in the long run this is probably both good and necessary...for FY10, Amtrak reported the following for the Surfliners:

-$107.2m in non-OPEB/"other" costs

-$4.4m in OPEB/"other" costs

-$49.5m in ticket revenue

-$80.8m in "total revenue" (i.e. incl. state support, presumably somewhere around the $31.3m difference)

-$26.5m/$30.9m in Amtrak-absorbed losses.

For comparison, FY11 revenue was $55.3m, and that only includes one month of the increased fares (which seem to have raked in about $800k for the month...probably about $500k net of what they would have otherwise).

Assuming that Amtrak can improve revenue by 20% with this move (which they indicated they managed to), that would bring in about an extra $10m/year (putting them somewhere in the $60-65 million range in terms of revenue, depending on what baseline you use). Also, though CA will probably put in some money towards filling that $30 million gap, I'm guessing that this is a way to bring about a "soft increase" in prices rather than trying to make up that $30m gap all at once. I'll also note that, given where the numbers are going on Amtrak's ridership, this is probably one of those places that there's room to make up the gap in operating costs...the Surfliners are closing in on 3 million riders per year, and I don't know what the theoretical capacity looks like, but they've added around 600,000 riders since 2003.

 

[FunNut]

What is a private varnish sleeper? (post #26)

Generically, "private varnish" means privately owned vintage passenger cars available for charters and excursions. Trip report soon about riding this particular one, the sleeper Pacific Sands.

L.A. Rail Vintage Rail Cars For Charter

That car looks fabulous. They have some interesting excursions. It's going on my "list." Hope to read your trip report soon.

 

[John Bredin]

Invest in more public transportation. Add more cars. Double track the right of way. Rail is a public good. Riders pay more while more and more general funding is shifted to prop up the highway trust fund. Or end all subsidies for all modes of transportation.

You're preaching to the choir here. :giggle: That argument will fly as far as a lead zepplelin with Tea-Party types who profess that there's no such thing as a public good and say with a straight face that we must maintain investment in the modes that "real Americans" use while ending subsidies for modes that only "those people" in LaLaLand use.* To paraphrase Goldfinger, they don't want Amtrak to improve, they want it to die. Or, going way retro for a sound-bite to mangle, "Billions for highways, not one cent for rail!"

*LaLaLand not being specifically metropolitan Los Angeles, though (1) people call it that, and (2) metro L.A. is a LaLaLand in the sense I'm using it. For this purpose, LaLaLand is where-ever a stereotypical "them" lives differently in some way than the "us" someone is trying to get to vote for him or make donations. :lol: Scott Walker made urban Milwaukee and Chicago, and particularly their use of transit and passenger rail, into a LaLaLand for his exurban and rural drive-everywhere constituency, and he rode that (pardon the pun) into the governor's mansion. :angry: It wasn't that extending the Hiawatha to Madison was going to be particularly expensive -- as shown by the fact that Walker wanted to repurpose the money to highways, so much for deficit reduction -- it's that putting the money into rail was highly symbolic to the constituency he was pandering catering to. The Northeastern states, and particularly NYC-Boston, are often spun as a LaLaLand by social conservatives.