D
Daniel
Guest
Why has the Sunset been run 3x a week back to the SP days? Is it because there isn't enough ridership to support a daily train? Has it always been a 3x a week train? Maybe it is time to just cut this route into smaller corridors.
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I think it goes back to when the SP was trying to run off its passenger business, so they downgraded the Sunset to a coach and automat-only train (i.e. no sleepers or dining car). Some regulatory group (possibly the ICC?) didn't want that level of service on a route that long, so they allowed SP to reduce frequencies to 3 days per week in exchange for restoring the sleepers and diner. That's the way it has been ever since, pretty much.
Splitting the route into smaller corridors would be pointless, without:
1) Investment in the infrastructure to improve capacity and reliability
2) A lot more frequencies than currently operate
3) More connections to other cities that aren't along the Sunset Route (i.e. a hub-and-spoke system to feed passengers into these corridors).
Splitting the route into smaller corridors would be pointless, without:
1) Investment in the infrastructure to improve capacity and reliability
2) A lot more frequencies than currently operate
3) More connections to other cities that aren't along the Sunset Route (i.e. a hub-and-spoke system to feed passengers into these corridors).
That said however, if Amtrak had the needed equipment, running the train daily would most likely increase ridership considerably. This was proved when the Texas Eagle went daily, and the train saw a dramatic increase in ridership.rmadisonwi said:
Viewliner
Engineer
I did a little searching and I found the approximate time periods which all of that happened (as stated by rmadisonwi). The cutback of the Sunset (the train lost the Limited portion of the name in 1958 and was later restored by Amtrak) to coach and automat only occured in the late 1960s. It was the ICC that urged SP (which agreed) on October, 1 1970 to restore Sleeping Cars and Dining Cars in exchange for being allowed to cut it back to tri-weekly service.
Hopefully at some point down the road (which is pretty far away still) Amtrak will have enough equipment to make the Sunset Limited daily, as well as the Cardinal and maybe even to add a few of the old routes back.
Hopefully at some point down the road (which is pretty far away still) Amtrak will have enough equipment to make the Sunset Limited daily, as well as the Cardinal and maybe even to add a few of the old routes back.
G
Guest
Guest
Indeed , the history as stated by rmadison and Viewliner is correct, I know, being alive and kicking at the time..
And I agree with Alan's thoughts that daily operation would help it, if we had enough equipment, etc, etc,etc.
The Southern Pacific was one of the most publicly adament against the passenger train of any road. Too bad, too, because it was a far flung empire with quite a few neat trains. The present day Coast Starlight route, for example, was actually SP from Portland(not Seattle) to LA. The present day California Zephyr route from Salt Lake City to SF was actually SP tracks. The pre-Amtrak CZ ran a different route, Western Pacific, for that final leg of the westward trip.
Funny thing,my own experiences of SP travel were quite pleasant. I personally did not experience any of the "automats" or that foolishness. Passengers loathed those automat cars.
One light note of something good about the old SP, which Amtrak took over. That is this: the neat carafe of coffee we get today on Amtrak. So far as I remember that was only done on the SP. On other roads, if you ran out of coffee, you had to signal a waiter to come over and pour some more for you, bouncing around. But with that carafe, we can sip two or three refills. That is especially helpful if you are served in your room.
I guess I worry---actually worry----more about the poor beleagured Sunset than any other train.....such beautiful equipment, (hauling living breathing human beings, by the way, just for the record,FWIW ) , sitting around on sidings for hours at a time. What a horror.
And I agree with Alan's thoughts that daily operation would help it, if we had enough equipment, etc, etc,etc.
The Southern Pacific was one of the most publicly adament against the passenger train of any road. Too bad, too, because it was a far flung empire with quite a few neat trains. The present day Coast Starlight route, for example, was actually SP from Portland(not Seattle) to LA. The present day California Zephyr route from Salt Lake City to SF was actually SP tracks. The pre-Amtrak CZ ran a different route, Western Pacific, for that final leg of the westward trip.
Funny thing,my own experiences of SP travel were quite pleasant. I personally did not experience any of the "automats" or that foolishness. Passengers loathed those automat cars.
One light note of something good about the old SP, which Amtrak took over. That is this: the neat carafe of coffee we get today on Amtrak. So far as I remember that was only done on the SP. On other roads, if you ran out of coffee, you had to signal a waiter to come over and pour some more for you, bouncing around. But with that carafe, we can sip two or three refills. That is especially helpful if you are served in your room.
I guess I worry---actually worry----more about the poor beleagured Sunset than any other train.....such beautiful equipment, (hauling living breathing human beings, by the way, just for the record,FWIW ) , sitting around on sidings for hours at a time. What a horror.
I seem to have become a "Guest"---will try to correct that. This is Bill Haithcoat who made that last entry.
Viewliner
Engineer
This has me curious though, can anyone tell me the date/year the Sunset was (re-)re-named the Sunset Limited. Looking at the timetables I have I know it's some time between 1971 and 1979 (I currently don't have any between the two)
Viewliner said:
I will see if I can find the answer to that tonight. Will let you know tomorrow, if somebody else does not find out first.
You couldn't make Sunset a daily again until UP builds enough additional sidings to park them all on. And imagine the conversations with agents, trying to find out when to expect a particular train: "Well, do you mean the one that was supposed to be here today, or the one that was supposed to be here yesterday? Or the one that will be here next tuesday that is supposed to be here tomorrow?" Wheew, that would be confusing.
RE: name of train
I have a July 12, 1971 Amtrak timetable which still shows it as just "Sunset". Next timetable I have in order is Nov. 14, 1971 and in that the word "Limited" has been restored. If there were any timetables between July and November, I have no copy of them.
So, Amtrak did not waste much time getting the right name back.
By looking at Sunset Limited material last night I was reminded of one of the reasons the automat was such a slap in the face. The SL had been one of those trains which had "themed" diners and lounges. Its diner was based on an Audobon Bird theme--paintings by the naturalist James Audobon. One lounge had a French Quarter theme and the coffee shop lounge had a Texas theme. Of course all that went down the drain with that automat. I think SP used automats on some other trains as well.
Now, I have always said there are some things that are BETTER under Amtrak than in the "good old days". One of these is the profusion, today, of showers. Back then they were quite rare. Looking through 50's timetables I noted that the SL was one of the very few trains "back then" which had a shower. This was a public shower for pullman passengers in one of the lounge cars. It also had valet service.
Those qualify as well justified status symbols for a great and grand train.
My first time to see or ride SL was also my first time to see or ride superliners. I guess they were less than a year old. I recall how beautiful and shiny they were in the 10 p.m. darkness at LAUPT. I rode in a deluxe bedroom. Of course this was the equipment where the button to flush the toilet and the button for the shower were too close. Somehow I managed to not make that mistake, however. Got to NOL 40 minutes early. Now THAT was a trip!!!!!
I have a July 12, 1971 Amtrak timetable which still shows it as just "Sunset". Next timetable I have in order is Nov. 14, 1971 and in that the word "Limited" has been restored. If there were any timetables between July and November, I have no copy of them.
So, Amtrak did not waste much time getting the right name back.
By looking at Sunset Limited material last night I was reminded of one of the reasons the automat was such a slap in the face. The SL had been one of those trains which had "themed" diners and lounges. Its diner was based on an Audobon Bird theme--paintings by the naturalist James Audobon. One lounge had a French Quarter theme and the coffee shop lounge had a Texas theme. Of course all that went down the drain with that automat. I think SP used automats on some other trains as well.
Now, I have always said there are some things that are BETTER under Amtrak than in the "good old days". One of these is the profusion, today, of showers. Back then they were quite rare. Looking through 50's timetables I noted that the SL was one of the very few trains "back then" which had a shower. This was a public shower for pullman passengers in one of the lounge cars. It also had valet service.
Those qualify as well justified status symbols for a great and grand train.
My first time to see or ride SL was also my first time to see or ride superliners. I guess they were less than a year old. I recall how beautiful and shiny they were in the 10 p.m. darkness at LAUPT. I rode in a deluxe bedroom. Of course this was the equipment where the button to flush the toilet and the button for the shower were too close. Somehow I managed to not make that mistake, however. Got to NOL 40 minutes early. Now THAT was a trip!!!!!
