Sunset Limited detour in Louisiana

[NativeSon5859]

On 9/21 and 9/23, #1 will take a detour and make no stops between New Orleans and Lake Charles due to BNSF railway work. Also #2 on 9/22 is affected. Does anyone know which route the train will take?

 

[NativeSon5859]

Well whatever route they end up using it'll be some nice rare mileage for some folks. I may try to get on one of those.

 

[Guest_George Harris_*]

There is only one practical alternate between these points

Lake Charles to Iowa Jct. on regular route

Iowa Jct. to Kinder LA, ex MoPac to Little Rock, follows US 165. This section is unsignaled.

Kinder LA to Livonia LA, ex MoPac Gulf Coast Lines Baton Rouge to Houston line, follows US 190

....On this route the major town is Opelousas

Livonia LA to West Bridge Jct, ex Texas and Pacific line New Orleans to Alexandra to Shreveport to Marshall TX

....Goes past new Livonia yard just after making the turn. Crosses I-10 near Gross Tete. Through Addis, Plaquemine, Avondale. South of Addis more or less follows Louisiana state Hwy 1 and the west bank of the Mississippi River. Unlikely to be able to see the river, but probably can see the Levee.

From West Bridge Jct, back to the original route. West Bridge Jct is the end of the Huey P. Long bridge trackage.

When I get my hands on my employee timetables, I can give the milage for this route.

 

[NativeSon5859]

Thanks George! Much appreciated!

 

[had8ley]

There is only one practical alternate between these points
Lake Charles to Iowa Jct. on regular route

Iowa Jct. to Kinder LA, ex MoPac to Little Rock, follows US 165. This section is unsignaled.

Kinder LA to Livonia LA, ex MoPac Gulf Coast Lines Baton Rouge to Houston line, follows US 190

....On this route the major town is Opelousas

Livonia LA to West Bridge Jct, ex Texas and Pacific line New Orleans to Alexandra to Shreveport to Marshall TX

....Goes past new Livonia yard just after making the turn. Crosses I-10 near Gross Tete. Through Addis, Plaquemine, Avondale. South of Addis more or less follows Louisiana state Hwy 1 and the west bank of the Mississippi River. Unlikely to be able to see the river, but probably can see the Levee.

From West Bridge Jct, back to the original route. West Bridge Jct is the end of the Huey P. Long bridge trackage.

When I get my hands on my employee timetables, I can give the milage for this route.

George;

Funny how time flies. I was on the first job to work Livonia Hump yard at the "new" yard~ that was in May of 1994; over 15 years ago !!!

 

[Rafi]

On 9/21 and 9/23, #1 will take a detour and make no stops between New Orleans and Lake Charles due to BNSF railway work. Also #2 on 9/22 is affected. Does anyone know which route the train will take?

Here's what I'm hearing:

The Sunset will detour via the UP Livonia, Beaumont, and Lake Charles subs between Avondale (just west of NOL) and Iowa Junction. Here's how the frequencies break down:

1(20) will detour Avondale to Iowa Junction on September 21

2(20) will detour Iowa Junction to Avondale on September 22

1(22) will detour Avondale to Iowa Junction on September 23

The trains won't make stops at SCH, NIB, or LFT, and it's expected to add about 45" to the runtime.

Rafi

 

[had8ley]

With the added mileage and the need to change pilots at Livonia and Iowa Jct I would almost bet a fez that you can add two to three hours to the time that #1 and #2 start their detours. It wasn't so long ago that the UP headed #1 through an Avondale yard track (mainly because they use the main line to build freight trains on) and derailed an Amtrak engine and the baggage car. The last time I checked the employee TT the track between Livonia (where you turn off the old Gulf Coast Lines) was only rated for 70 mph for pax trains adding to the delays already mentioned.

 

[George Harris]

Livonia Subdivision: Ex T&P: Speed limit 60 mph

“UP Passenger Trains: Between MP 114.8 and MP 69.0, where no permanent or temporary speed restrictions are in effect for freight trains, UPRR passenger trains may operate at ten (10) MPH above maximum authorized speed for freight trains.”

There are only two speed restrictions in this distance, summing up to slightly under 2 miles.

..10.2 West Bridge Jct

..11.4 Avondale

..20.9 Ama Jct (end double track)

..62.9 Donaldsonville

..87.3 Addis

112.4 begin yard, Livonia

114.8 Livonia

Total: 104.6 miles

Based on the yard detail, it appears that 114.8 on the Livonia Sub equals 621.0 on the Beaumont Sub.

Beaumont Subdivision Ex Missouri Pacific, speed limit 60 mph.

Same statement on passenger trains is given here.

There are four speed restrictions in this section, but all are relatively short.

621.0 Livonia

610.8 Atchafalaya River (Drawbridge)

599.2 Port Barre

590+/- Opelousas

544.8 LC Jct.

544.5 Kinder

Total 76.5 miles

Lake Charles Subdivision, ex Missouri Pacific

Speed Limit 49 mph. (this piece of railroad is dead straight, but has no signals.)

660.7 Crossing Beaumone Sub

680.2 Iowa Jct

Total 19.5 miles

Total distance from west bridge to Iowa Jct: 200.6 miles

direct route 195.2 miles

Extra distance 5.4 miles

Now back to the Lafayette Sub, ex Southern Pacific:

205.4 Iowa Jct

218.6 Lake Charles

Total 13.2 miles

 

[NativeSon5859]

Livonia Subdivision: Ex T&P: Speed limit 60 mph“UP Passenger Trains: Between MP 114.8 and MP 69.0, where no permanent or temporary speed restrictions are in effect for freight trains, UPRR passenger trains may operate at ten (10) MPH above maximum authorized speed for freight trains.”

There are only two speed restrictions in this distance, summing up to slightly under 2 miles.

..10.2 West Bridge Jct

..11.4 Avondale

..20.9 Ama Jct (end double track)

..62.9 Donaldsonville

..87.3 Addis

112.4 begin yard, Livonia

114.8 Livonia

Total: 104.6 miles

Based on the yard detail, it appears that 114.8 on the Livonia Sub equals 621.0 on the Beaumont Sub.

Beaumont Subdivision Ex Missouri Pacific, speed limit 60 mph.

Same statement on passenger trains is given here.

There are four speed restrictions in this section, but all are relatively short.

621.0 Livonia

610.8 Atchafalaya River (Drawbridge)

599.2 Port Barre

590+/- Opelousas

544.8 LC Jct.

544.5 Kinder

Total 76.5 miles

Lake Charles Subdivision, ex Missouri Pacific

Speed Limit 49 mph. (this piece of railroad is dead straight, but has no signals.)

660.7 Crossing Beaumone Sub

680.2 Iowa Jct

Total 19.5 miles

Total distance from west bridge to Iowa Jct: 200.6 miles

direct route 195.2 miles

Extra distance 5.4 miles

Now back to the Lafayette Sub, ex Southern Pacific:

205.4 Iowa Jct

218.6 Lake Charles

Total 13.2 miles

Very interesting George, thanks for that. I wonder if those lines are still heavily used by freights?

 

[had8ley]

Livonia Subdivision: Ex T&P: Speed limit 60 mph“UP Passenger Trains: Between MP 114.8 and MP 69.0, where no permanent or temporary speed restrictions are in effect for freight trains, UPRR passenger trains may operate at ten (10) MPH above maximum authorized speed for freight trains.”

There are only two speed restrictions in this distance, summing up to slightly under 2 miles.

..10.2 West Bridge Jct

..11.4 Avondale

..20.9 Ama Jct (end double track)

..62.9 Donaldsonville

..87.3 Addis

112.4 begin yard, Livonia

114.8 Livonia

Total: 104.6 miles

Based on the yard detail, it appears that 114.8 on the Livonia Sub equals 621.0 on the Beaumont Sub.

Beaumont Subdivision Ex Missouri Pacific, speed limit 60 mph.

Same statement on passenger trains is given here.

There are four speed restrictions in this section, but all are relatively short.

621.0 Livonia

610.8 Atchafalaya River (Drawbridge)

599.2 Port Barre

590+/- Opelousas

544.8 LC Jct.

544.5 Kinder

Total 76.5 miles

Lake Charles Subdivision, ex Missouri Pacific

Speed Limit 49 mph. (this piece of railroad is dead straight, but has no signals.)

660.7 Crossing Beaumone Sub

680.2 Iowa Jct

Total 19.5 miles

Total distance from west bridge to Iowa Jct: 200.6 miles

direct route 195.2 miles

Extra distance 5.4 miles

Now back to the Lafayette Sub, ex Southern Pacific:

205.4 Iowa Jct

218.6 Lake Charles

Total 13.2 miles

Very interesting George, thanks for that. I wonder if those lines are still heavily used by freights?

Ah, there's the rub my friend. The stack trains to/from California run over the Gulf Coast Lines main to Livonia and down the T&P to Avondale. All manifest trains for/from Englewood and points west use this same route. There are too few sidings on the GCL (Gulf Coast Lines) side for the amount of traffic run on it so that would play into delays. And we're talking about single main tracks until we hit the outskirts of Avondale. Livonia yard is notorious for using the GCL side main for a "storage" track until they can find a spot to yard a train. With the economy down this should not be a factor unless there is a de-railment in Livonia yard.

 

[had8ley]

Livonia Subdivision: Ex T&P: Speed limit 60 mph“UP Passenger Trains: Between MP 114.8 and MP 69.0, where no permanent or temporary speed restrictions are in effect for freight trains, UPRR passenger trains may operate at ten (10) MPH above maximum authorized speed for freight trains.”

George;

Is there any mention of increased pax train speed between MP 69 (McCall) and Avondale? If not, you've got 50 plus miles of 60 mph max.

 

[George Harris]

Livonia Subdivision: Ex T&P: Speed limit 60 mph“UP Passenger Trains: Between MP 114.8 and MP 69.0, where no permanent or temporary speed restrictions are in effect for freight trains, UPRR passenger trains may operate at ten (10) MPH above maximum authorized speed for freight trains.”

George;

Is there any mention of increased pax train speed between MP 69 (McCall) and Avondale? If not, you've got 50 plus miles of 60 mph max.

No. What I quoted is all their is. What I have is a download of the July 30, 2007 Houston Area ETT. I had the same queston in mind.

There was a while in mid 2008 that UP's ETT's (and those of some other companies as well) were available on a publicly accessible US FRA web site. That is where and when I got it. The specific address for the site is still there, but the ETT's are no longer on it.

 

[NativeSon5859]

Livonia Subdivision: Ex T&P: Speed limit 60 mph“UP Passenger Trains: Between MP 114.8 and MP 69.0, where no permanent or temporary speed restrictions are in effect for freight trains, UPRR passenger trains may operate at ten (10) MPH above maximum authorized speed for freight trains.”

There are only two speed restrictions in this distance, summing up to slightly under 2 miles.

..10.2 West Bridge Jct

..11.4 Avondale

..20.9 Ama Jct (end double track)

..62.9 Donaldsonville

..87.3 Addis

112.4 begin yard, Livonia

114.8 Livonia

Total: 104.6 miles

Based on the yard detail, it appears that 114.8 on the Livonia Sub equals 621.0 on the Beaumont Sub.

Beaumont Subdivision Ex Missouri Pacific, speed limit 60 mph.

Same statement on passenger trains is given here.

There are four speed restrictions in this section, but all are relatively short.

621.0 Livonia

610.8 Atchafalaya River (Drawbridge)

599.2 Port Barre

590+/- Opelousas

544.8 LC Jct.

544.5 Kinder

Total 76.5 miles

Lake Charles Subdivision, ex Missouri Pacific

Speed Limit 49 mph. (this piece of railroad is dead straight, but has no signals.)

660.7 Crossing Beaumone Sub

680.2 Iowa Jct

Total 19.5 miles

Total distance from west bridge to Iowa Jct: 200.6 miles

direct route 195.2 miles

Extra distance 5.4 miles

Now back to the Lafayette Sub, ex Southern Pacific:

205.4 Iowa Jct

218.6 Lake Charles

Total 13.2 miles

Very interesting George, thanks for that. I wonder if those lines are still heavily used by freights?

Ah, there's the rub my friend. The stack trains to/from California run over the Gulf Coast Lines main to Livonia and down the T&P to Avondale. All manifest trains for/from Englewood and points west use this same route. There are too few sidings on the GCL (Gulf Coast Lines) side for the amount of traffic run on it so that would play into delays. And we're talking about single main tracks until we hit the outskirts of Avondale. Livonia yard is notorious for using the GCL side main for a "storage" track until they can find a spot to yard a train. With the economy down this should not be a factor unless there is a de-railment in Livonia yard.

Interesting. I guess I always assumed (incorrectly) that most of the freights used the BNSF line via LFT.

 

[alanh]

You can see where the detour is on BNSF's Gulf district map. (Although it shows Acadiana Railway between Eunice and Opelousas, this is actually trackage rights over UP.)

 

[Guest_had8ley_*]

Livonia Subdivision: Ex T&P: Speed limit 60 mph“UP Passenger Trains: Between MP 114.8 and MP 69.0, where no permanent or temporary speed restrictions are in effect for freight trains, UPRR passenger trains may operate at ten (10) MPH above maximum authorized speed for freight trains.”

There are only two speed restrictions in this distance, summing up to slightly under 2 miles.

..10.2 West Bridge Jct

..11.4 Avondale

..20.9 Ama Jct (end double track)

..62.9 Donaldsonville

..87.3 Addis

112.4 begin yard, Livonia

114.8 Livonia

Total: 104.6 miles

Based on the yard detail, it appears that 114.8 on the Livonia Sub equals 621.0 on the Beaumont Sub.

Beaumont Subdivision Ex Missouri Pacific, speed limit 60 mph.

Same statement on passenger trains is given here.

There are four speed restrictions in this section, but all are relatively short.

621.0 Livonia

610.8 Atchafalaya River (Drawbridge)

599.2 Port Barre

590+/- Opelousas

544.8 LC Jct.

544.5 Kinder

Total 76.5 miles

Lake Charles Subdivision, ex Missouri Pacific

Speed Limit 49 mph. (this piece of railroad is dead straight, but has no signals.)

660.7 Crossing Beaumone Sub

680.2 Iowa Jct

Total 19.5 miles

Total distance from west bridge to Iowa Jct: 200.6 miles

direct route 195.2 miles

Extra distance 5.4 miles

Now back to the Lafayette Sub, ex Southern Pacific:

205.4 Iowa Jct

218.6 Lake Charles

Total 13.2 miles

Very interesting George, thanks for that. I wonder if those lines are still heavily used by freights?

Ah, there's the rub my friend. The stack trains to/from California run over the Gulf Coast Lines main to Livonia and down the T&P to Avondale. All manifest trains for/from Englewood and points west use this same route. There are too few sidings on the GCL (Gulf Coast Lines) side for the amount of traffic run on it so that would play into delays. And we're talking about single main tracks until we hit the outskirts of Avondale. Livonia yard is notorious for using the GCL side main for a "storage" track until they can find a spot to yard a train. With the economy down this should not be a factor unless there is a de-railment in Livonia yard.

Interesting. I guess I always assumed (incorrectly) that most of the freights used the BNSF line via LFT.

The most desirable job, as far as freight crews go, is the Houston to Livonia long pool. It pays very well because of the mega miles one way.

 

[George Harris]

As a freight route, via Livonia is probably better due to fewer drawbridges, if nothing else, and it appears a smaller number of lower speed areas.

Then remember UP owns all of this one, and BNSF is the owner of the ex SP between Iowa Jct and Avondale. Railroads prefer to run on tracks they own rather than on trackage rights on somebody else's railroad.

One reason among many: All the contracts in the world that say to the effect that dispatchers will be blind to the ownership of the trains when giving priority are only so much paper when the Super is calling the dispatcher and saying why are you delaying my hot train.

 

[had8ley]

As a freight route, via Livonia is probably better due to fewer drawbridges, if nothing else, and it appears a smaller number of lower speed areas.
Then remember UP owns all of this one, and BNSF is the owner of the ex SP between Iowa Jct and Avondale. Railroads prefer to run on tracks they own rather than on trackage rights on somebody else's railroad.

One reason among many: All the contracts in the world that say to the effect that dispatchers will be blind to the ownership of the trains when giving priority are only so much paper when the Super is calling the dispatcher and saying why are you delaying my hot train.

George;

You are absolutely correct. Strange things happen in that bunker in Omaha (UP dispatching center.) The last Sunset I piloted I was on duty 10 minutes shy of the hogs eating me up (11'50") and I only brought #1 from NOUPT to MP 115 where the GCL turns out off of the T&P underneath the Highway 190 overpass. I was on continuous time and didn't get back to New Orleans until 10 hours later. (This went on Amtrak's bill.) BTW, I can't remember a siding that the dispatcher DIDN'T put us in Let's see how well things go next week; they can only get better

 

[NativeSon5859]

As a freight route, via Livonia is probably better due to fewer drawbridges, if nothing else, and it appears a smaller number of lower speed areas.
Then remember UP owns all of this one, and BNSF is the owner of the ex SP between Iowa Jct and Avondale. Railroads prefer to run on tracks they own rather than on trackage rights on somebody else's railroad.

One reason among many: All the contracts in the world that say to the effect that dispatchers will be blind to the ownership of the trains when giving priority are only so much paper when the Super is calling the dispatcher and saying why are you delaying my hot train.

George;

You are absolutely correct. Strange things happen in that bunker in Omaha (UP dispatching center.) The last Sunset I piloted I was on duty 10 minutes shy of the hogs eating me up (11'50") and I only brought #1 from NOUPT to MP 115 where the GCL turns out off of the T&P underneath the Highway 190 overpass. I was on continuous time and didn't get back to New Orleans until 10 hours later. (This went on Amtrak's bill.) BTW, I can't remember a siding that the dispatcher DIDN'T put us in Let's see how well things go next week; they can only get better

Ha, I hope things go sort of well, 'cause right when I get to SAT I catch a ride on the long dog back to NOL...of course I have a few to choose from but I'm planning on missing the first one which is supposed to leave SAS at 4:30am. If I make that one it'll be a miracle!