Steak Lovers Beware!

[Ispolkom]

So, on LD trains that are not the EB or AT, do they carry enough silverware and wine glasses that they don't need to run the dishwasher, or do they do one overnight load of just those items?

On the Capitol Limited this weekend plates, glasses, coffee cups, and wine glasses were all plastic, but the flatware was metal. On the Empire Builder, everything was washable, and I noticed the dishwashing station visible through the door when I walked by the diner at MSP.

We were very happy with the quality of the food, with standouts being the pork verde for lunch on #30, and the braised lamb shank for dinner on #7. I was also surprised this morning to see that the "breakfast sandwich" special on #7 was an actual sandwich, made with slices of bread, which looked made to order. I had assumed that it would be something frozen and reheated on an English muffin.

Longford, did you win the bottle of Columbia Crest at the wine tasting?

 

[Longford]

No, I didn't win the bottle - I purchased it after the tasting. The smaller bottles of wine offered for sale on the train (which would fill two glasses of wine) were priced at $13 and the full-sized bottle of this better wine was sold - as a promotion - for $14. I brought the bottle to dinner and shared its contents with the three other people at my table. The bottles handed out as prizes during the wine/cheese event were, for the most part, 1/4 full because their contents had been sampled by the guests.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

They've been slowly rolling back the SDS stuff. I noticed they've gone back to cloth napkins, as well.

 

[wayman]

Flat Iron Steak on the Empire Builder, Saturday, May 23rd. There was no mention on the Menu of the posibility of a change in the cut of meat.

Here's my steak from the Silver Star, Monday 25 May. I like my steak rare, and got exactly what I wanted:



As you can see, the ceramic plate (in Longford's photo from the Empire Builder) and plastic plate (in my photo from the Silver Star) look very similar!

I've just uploaded lots of photos from Amtrak's current menu to my Amtrak diners set on Flickr. The flatiron steak, crab cakes, Thai curry chicken, pulled pork stew, railroad French toast, key lime pie, and berry lemon tart are all there to whet your appetite When you follow that link to the photo set, the photos from this weekend start with "Thai curry chicken", the first photo in the third row. You can also compare this flatiron steak to one I ate in January 2008, and compare the current key lime pie to the one provided by the previous caterer.

 

[sunchaser]

Flat Iron Steak on the Empire Builder, Saturday, May 23rd. There was no mention on the Menu of the posibility of a change in the cut of meat.

Here's my steak from the Silver Star, Monday 25 May. I like my steak rare, and got exactly what I wanted:



As you can see, the ceramic plate (in Longford's photo from the Empire Builder) and plastic plate (in my photo from the Silver Star) look very similar!

I've just uploaded lots of photos from Amtrak's current menu to my Amtrak diners set on Flickr. The flatiron steak, crab cakes, Thai curry chicken, pulled pork stew, railroad French toast, key lime pie, and berry lemon tart are all there to whet your appetite When you follow that link to the photo set, the photos from this weekend start with "Thai curry chicken", the first photo in the third row. You can also compare this flatiron steak to one I ate in January 2008.

The plates do look very close to each other! Your steak is a little too rare for my taste, though. Thanks for the pics.

 

[wayman]

The plates do look very close to each other! Your steak is a little too rare for my taste, though. Thanks for the pics.

Fortunately, with the steaks cooked-to-order by the chef, we can all get our steaks just as we like them

(Well, except for possibly not being able to get them this rare during the summer months. We'll have to wait and see how that works. I might have to travel somewhere just to try the food again in a few months! )

 

[amtrakwolverine]

The plates do look very close to each other! Your steak is a little too rare for my taste, though. Thanks for the pics.

Fortunately, with the steaks cooked-to-order by the chef, we can all get our steaks just as we like them

(Well, except for possibly not being able to get them this rare during the summer months. We'll have to wait and see how that works. I might have to travel somewhere just to try the food again in a few months! )

the only train that has a chief is the autotrain and EB. how can they been cooked to order when there just tossed in a microwave.

 

[wayman]

The plates do look very close to each other! Your steak is a little too rare for my taste, though. Thanks for the pics.

Fortunately, with the steaks cooked-to-order by the chef, we can all get our steaks just as we like them

(Well, except for possibly not being able to get them this rare during the summer months. We'll have to wait and see how that works. I might have to travel somewhere just to try the food again in a few months! )

the only train that has a chief is the autotrain and EB. how can they been cooked to order when there just tossed in a microwave.

Every diner on a long-distance train has a chef, who uses an oven and grill to prepare your food. Some meals, such as the steaks and omelets, are cooked on the grill when you order them; others have been mostly prepared ahead-of-time and are warmed in the oven. The chef isn't tossing anything in a microwave.

The EB and Auto Train are the only trains which have an assistant chef in addition to the chef. The assistant chef is able to do additional cooking preparation in the kitchen as well as wash dishes, which is why those two trains are still able to serve meals on ceramic china instead of plastic china.

 

[AlanB]

The plates do look very close to each other! Your steak is a little too rare for my taste, though. Thanks for the pics.

Fortunately, with the steaks cooked-to-order by the chef, we can all get our steaks just as we like them

(Well, except for possibly not being able to get them this rare during the summer months. We'll have to wait and see how that works. I might have to travel somewhere just to try the food again in a few months! )

the only train that has a chief is the autotrain and EB. how can they been cooked to order when there just tossed in a microwave.

Every LD train, except for the Cardinal, still has a chef. Even the Lake Shore still runs with a chef, even though he has no oven or grill to cook on.

And except for the LSL and the Cardinal, steaks are indeed cooked to order on the grill by a chef.

 

[AlanB]

The EB and Auto Train are the only trains which have an assistant chef in addition to the chef. The assistant chef is able to do additional cooking preparation in the kitchen as well as wash dishes, which is why those two trains are still able to serve meals on ceramic china instead of plastic china.

That's not exactly true, Will. The EB and the Auto Train are the only two trains that are guaranteed to always have an assistant chef in the kitchen. The other LD's, except for the LSL and the Cardinal, may or may not have an assistant chef depending on the passenger load for that train.

 

[Cho Cho Charlie]

As you can see, the ceramic plate (in Longford's photo from the Empire Builder) and plastic plate (in my photo from the Silver Star) look very similar!

They do look similar, but I can definitely see the difference between ceramic and plastic just by noting the thickness at the edge of the plates.

BTW, I would have sent the steak back to be cooked a bit longer. It is easy to cook a rare steak a bit more, but difficult to uncook an overcooked steak.

 

[AlanB]

BTW, I would have sent the steak back to be cooked a bit longer. It is easy to cook a rare steak a bit more, but difficult to uncook an overcooked steak.

It's easy to do, but against health regulations. They have to cook you a new steak, they can't put that one back on the grill. I'm not sure if they can put it into the convection oven for a few minutes or not.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

Every LD train, except for the Cardinal, still has a chef. Even the Lake Shore still runs with a chef, even though he has no oven or grill to cook on.
And except for the LSL and the Cardinal, steaks are indeed cooked to order on the grill by a chef.

He or she... The one chef on the LSL is indeed female. She handled the "kitchen" very well on Thursday.

 

[wayman]

The EB and Auto Train are the only trains which have an assistant chef in addition to the chef. The assistant chef is able to do additional cooking preparation in the kitchen as well as wash dishes, which is why those two trains are still able to serve meals on ceramic china instead of plastic china.

That's not exactly true, Will. The EB and the Auto Train are the only two trains that are guaranteed to always have an assistant chef in the kitchen. The other LD's, except for the LSL and the Cardinal, may or may not have an assistant chef depending on the passenger load for that train.

Wow, I didn't know that Alan. Thanks for the clarification, and I'm glad to know there's some flexibility in the system to allow for assistant chefs occasionally. But I wonder how often they actually add one...

Based on passenger load, they certainly could have used an assistant chef on Train 91 on Saturday--the train was sold out and the diner was packed for all meals--but the staff was just a chef, LSA, and two SAs (unless the assistant chef was hiding in the dishwasher when I peeked into the kitchen!). Then again, the service on 91 was prompt and efficient, and food arrived very promptly from the kitchen, even without an assistant.

Train 92 on Monday had a lighter passenger load, with the diner maybe 2/3 full for each meal, and it had only a chef, LSA, and one SA, and service was a little slower as a result. The difference that second SA can make is huge. I can only imagine how much improved things can be with an assistant chef too! (Well, actually I do know--I've eaten on the EB. And it was definitely a cut above even the very best dining car crews on other trains. I can only imagine how much better the food on the Crescent, Silvers, etc, will get when they also get a second chef on every train!)

 

[Tony]

It's easy to do, but against health regulations. They have to cook you a new steak, they can't put that one back on the grill. I'm not sure if they can put it into the convection oven for a few minutes or not.

I was never aware of that. Though I have never personally had to do it at any restaurant, I always thought that one could send an under-cooked meal back to the kitchen for a bit more heating.

Also, let me add, I thought serving raw meat (and poultry) was a health violation too. :unsure:

 

[Tony]

...Based on passenger load, they certainly could have used an assistant chef on Train 91 on Saturday--the train was sold out and the diner was packed for all meals--but the staff was just a chef, LSA, and two SAs (unless the assistant chef was hiding in the dishwasher when I peeked into the kitchen!). Then again, the service on 91 was prompt and efficient, and food arrived very promptly from the kitchen, even without an assistant.

Train 92 on Monday had a lighter passenger load, with the diner maybe 2/3 full for each meal, and it had only a chef, LSA, and one SA, and service was a little slower as a result. The difference that second SA can make is huge. I can only imagine how much improved things can be with an assistant chef too! (Well, actually I do know--I've eaten on the EB. And it was definitely a cut above even the very best dining car crews on other trains. I can only imagine how much better the food on the Crescent, Silvers, etc, will get when they also get a second chef on every train!)

I have been traveling on the Silvers for years (91,97,98), and experienced all the combinations of crew members in the dining car.

From my observations, prompt and efficient service vs. slow service, seems to be more of function of the individuals themselves, rather than the customer load and a second SA. Some groups of individuals working in the dining car just happen to make more of an well organized "team" than others, and with that, seem to be so much more efficient in their overall jobs. They seem to put together a better "system", better choreography, in serving their passengers.

The one LSA named Michelle, was one that was really great. No matter how crowed the dining car was, tables got cleared fast, waiting people got seated quickly, drink orders were taken and filled within minutes, salads and bread appeared on your table with little wait, etc.

 

[Longford]

BTW, I would have sent the steak back to be cooked a bit longer. It is easy to cook a rare steak a bit more, but difficult to uncook an overcooked steak.

It's easy to do, but against health regulations. They have to cook you a new steak, they can't put that one back on the grill. I'm not sure if they can put it into the convection oven for a few minutes or not.

Is there a set of federal regulations governing food preparation on all trains? If so, where are such regulations published? If there are no such federal regulations, local and/or state regulations would apply and in that case I don't think there are uniform regulations covering the matter (most probably state regulations, because trains move through so many different communities so quickly).

I live in Chicago and it's commonplace and, from what I understand, perfectly legal for a restaurant to adjust the cooking time of a steak if a diner sends it back because it's not done to the point it's been ordered. I've never heard (until now) of the (or a) regulation mandating the throw-out of a steak and the cooking of a new one if a customer sends an undercooked one back to the kitchen for adjustment.

 

[wayman]

It's easy to do, but against health regulations. They have to cook you a new steak, they can't put that one back on the grill. I'm not sure if they can put it into the convection oven for a few minutes or not.

I was never aware of that. Though I have never personally had to do it at any restaurant, I always thought that one could send an under-cooked meal back to the kitchen for a bit more heating.

Also, let me add, I thought serving raw meat (and poultry) was a health violation too. :unsure:

Actually, serving beef far more raw than this is common in some cultures. Steak tartare (all around Western Europe) is raw beef, marinated and chilled. Kefto (Ethiopian/Eritrean) is totally raw minced beef, never cooked. Shabu shabu (Japanese) is beef served raw, with a pot of warm stew broth for cooking it yourself on the table. Fondue (Swiss) is the same idea with a pot of hot cooking oil on the table. You get to cook the shabu shabu or fondue meat exactly how you want it, or even eat it raw if you like. And the kefto and steak tartare are simply is eaten exactly as served. And all of these are widely available in American restaurants. Compared to these, the rarest flatiron steak is quite cooked--the outside is completely seared, after a few minutes on the grill on each side, and the inside is slightly (very slightly) cooked as well. The FDA requires a footnote saying uncooked meat is risky, but it's not a violation of any rules.

 

[Tony]

The FDA requires a footnote saying uncooked meat is risky, but it's not a violation of any rules.

Possibly it is a local heath bureau thing.... most of the restaurants around here have that footnote, but then add to it, a notice that they will not serve any meat cooked less than medium.

One of the reasons, I think (just a guess) is that unlike grocery stores, I know that restaurants are legally sold known contaminated meat. Or least they could be. Because of that, they have to ensure it is cooked well enough (which is medium) to kill any of the nasty stuff (germs, etc).

 

[Green Maned Lion]

The FDA requires a footnote saying uncooked meat is risky, but it's not a violation of any rules.

Possibly it is a local heath bureau thing.... most of the restaurants around here have that footnote, but then add to it, a notice that they will not serve any meat cooked less than medium.

One of the reasons, I think (just a guess) is that unlike grocery stores, I know that restaurants are legally sold known contaminated meat. Or least they could be. Because of that, they have to ensure it is cooked well enough (which is medium) to kill any of the nasty stuff (germs, etc).

Actually, your key word here is "most". Most cheap/bad restaurants don't trust the quality of the meat they sell, do not wish to get sued, and therefore do not offer rare meat. Offering rare as an option on a hamburger is one pre-order indicator of whether a place knows or doesn't know how to properly cook one.

Truth be told, if the restaurant does not offer rare as an option on cooked to order food, I'd say don't dine there. Doesn't matter if you like your food rare or not. It really is indicative of a lack of confidence in their ability to provide quality, safe food. I, for one, do not wish to eat in a restaurant that is not comfortable with providing a cooked but rare burger.

Moreover, and I knock wood saying this, I prefer my burgers like my steaks- rare as all get out. When I make them at home I use various different kinds of meat- kobe beef, buffalo, lamb, veal, venison, duck- usually in combination. I always cook it rare to medium rare, and both at restaurants and in my own home, I have yet to get sick from eating it.

By the way, I, for reasons that elude my logical brain, like choke-and-pukes (AKA greasy spoons, grease pits, truck stops, et al), I usually order my burgers rare there, if they offer cooked to order burgers, and I still haven't gotten sick. I don't even know what the big brouhaha is about.

 

[Longford]

The FDA requires a footnote saying uncooked meat is risky, but it's not a violation of any rules.

......... I know that restaurants are legally sold known contaminated meat. Or least they could be.

Sorry, but I find it difficult to accept such a statement . . . that the law/regulations anywhere in the USA permit a supplier to sell contaminated meat. I'm not saying it doesn't happen - because we know it has - but I doubt any government regulations permit it. Then again, how one defines "contaminated" could change the discussion.

 

[AAARGH!]

Actually, your key word here is "most". Most cheap/bad restaurants don't trust the quality of the meat they sell, do not wish to get sued, and therefore do not offer rare meat. Offering rare as an option on a hamburger is one pre-order indicator of whether a place knows or doesn't know how to properly cook one.
Truth be told, if the restaurant does not offer rare as an option on cooked to order food, I'd say don't dine there. Doesn't matter if you like your food rare or not. It really is indicative of a lack of confidence in their ability to provide quality, safe food. I, for one, do not wish to eat in a restaurant that is not comfortable with providing a cooked but rare burger.

Moreover, and I knock wood saying this, I prefer my burgers like my steaks- rare as all get out. When I make them at home I use various different kinds of meat- kobe beef, buffalo, lamb, veal, venison, duck- usually in combination. I always cook it rare to medium rare, and both at restaurants and in my own home, I have yet to get sick from eating it.

By the way, I, for reasons that elude my logical brain, like choke-and-pukes (AKA greasy spoons, grease pits, truck stops, et al), I usually order my burgers rare there, if they offer cooked to order burgers, and I still haven't gotten sick. I don't even know what the big brouhaha is about.

You may have well built up a tolerance over time for (slightly) contaminated meat sold at less-than-fancy places. It's the kids who played in the mud who built up the most immunity and thus are the healthiest.

 

[sunchaser]

Actually, your key word here is "most". Most cheap/bad restaurants don't trust the quality of the meat they sell, do not wish to get sued, and therefore do not offer rare meat. Offering rare as an option on a hamburger is one pre-order indicator of whether a place knows or doesn't know how to properly cook one.
Truth be told, if the restaurant does not offer rare as an option on cooked to order food, I'd say don't dine there. Doesn't matter if you like your food rare or not. It really is indicative of a lack of confidence in their ability to provide quality, safe food. I, for one, do not wish to eat in a restaurant that is not comfortable with providing a cooked but rare burger.

Moreover, and I knock wood saying this, I prefer my burgers like my steaks- rare as all get out. When I make them at home I use various different kinds of meat- kobe beef, buffalo, lamb, veal, venison, duck- usually in combination. I always cook it rare to medium rare, and both at restaurants and in my own home, I have yet to get sick from eating it.

By the way, I, for reasons that elude my logical brain, like choke-and-pukes (AKA greasy spoons, grease pits, truck stops, et al), I usually order my burgers rare there, if they offer cooked to order burgers, and I still haven't gotten sick. I don't even know what the big brouhaha is about.

You may have well built up a tolerance over time for (slightly) contaminated meat sold at less-than-fancy places. It's the kids who played in the mud who built up the most immunity and thus are the healthiest.

Exactly what do you consider 'slightly contaminated'? If you are referring to e-coli, salmonella, botulism, etc., as contaminates, there is really no such thing as 'slightly contaminated'. All of these will at the very least would make you quite ill, if not kill you. Once in the human system, they multiply rapidly and make you ill quite quickly, within hours.

The reason for the undercooked meat warning is that there is a risk that IF the meat does have these bacteria in it, you could get sick if it is undercooked.

 

[Cho Cho Charlie]

Truth be told, if the restaurant does not offer rare as an option on cooked to order food, I'd say don't dine there. Doesn't matter if you like your food rare or not. It really is indicative of a lack of confidence in their ability to provide quality, safe food. I, for one, do not wish to eat in a restaurant that is not comfortable with providing a cooked but rare burger.

I agree with you, 100%.

 

[Cho Cho Charlie]

Sorry, but I find it difficult to accept such a statement . . . that the law/regulations anywhere in the USA permit a supplier to sell contaminated meat. I'm not saying it doesn't happen - because we know it has - but I doubt any government regulations permit it. Then again, how one defines "contaminated" could change the discussion.

I think it is, unfortunately, true.

If I remember, it has to do with USDA's jurisdiction, and the difference between retail sales (grocery stores) and wholesale (to restaurants).

Plus little things like section 623, "Exemptions from inspection requirements... Pizzas containing meat food products. " How in the world did Pizza get a specific exception written into the law?