Southwest Chief Re-Route?

[gdj]

I don't know how much they would use it, but Clovis is home to Cannon AFB.

 

[California Special]

I think there should be service to Clovis and Amarillo, but those people should not rob service to Raton and Dodge City in order to acquire it. Fight for your own train, and I will support you, but don't steal someone else's train.

 

[printman2000]

I think there should be service to Clovis and Amarillo, but those people should not rob service to Raton and Dodge City in order to acquire it. Fight for your own train, and I will support you, but don't steal someone else's train.

How many times is someone going to say this??

No one is "robbing" a route. It would only be rerouted if the current route is no longer financially feasible.

 

[Paulus]

Colorado claims they've gotten their price tag down to $8.9 million

 

[rubber duck]

So they have! What does that have to with New Mexico's dilemma? If you notice these funds in question went to Kansas and Colorado. Notice New Mexico was not invited in on the event and that BNSF put in their support in asking. Don't you smell oil train? I do.

 

[cirdan]

There's a downside for BNSF, of course. But the Transcon line is nearly entirely double-tracked (funding for the bridge in Vaughn has apparently been committed) -- that leaves, by my count, the bridge in Ft Sumter and three bridges northeast of Avard OK, and I'd expect BNSF to double-track those for its own account. With this line double-tracked and running mostly fast intermodals, Amtrak should be able to cruse between stations at 70 mph without causing much interference. BNSF might ask for some sidings between Mulvane, Wichita, and Newton, where Amtrak would run contrary to BNSF's "flow of traffic".

Maybe BNSF is planning to upgrade these sections on its own dollar. But once Amtrak has switched routes and bits of Raton Pass get dismantled so they can't siwtch back, BNSF may yet try to get Amtrak to share the costs for these improvements. I hope Amtrak is asking for written assurances putting a cap on the costs that are coming its way.

 

[neroden]

Great for Colorado, but that part of the line was always going to be maintained for freight service.

The problem is really in New Mexico, and the situation there is bad. It looks like the legislature may be swayed into "providing funding" in a manner which will later be declared illegal by the courts, which would be a god-awful mess.

 

[twa904]

The SWC runs thru New Mexico's 3rd Congressional district. Congressman Ben Lujan who represents the district should get his but busy and secure a few million $$ for this line to be maintained. To me, that is part of his job.

Oh, That's right, Congress never does it's job.

 

[New Mexican]

The SWC runs thru New Mexico's 3rd Congressional district. Congressman Ben Lujan who represents the district should get his but busy and secure a few million $$ for this line to be maintained. To me, that is part of his job.

Oh, That's right, Congress never does it's job.

He's hard at work on the matter.

 

[CHamilton]

An update from the Facebook page for the Southwest Chief Coalition.

At my request, Bobbie Ferrell, Staff Liaison with Senator Udall in Santa Fe, requested staff in Washington to contact Joe Boardman to request (I know, too many “requests”) a letter committing Amtrak to run its train over the northern route for a period of at least 20 years, and committing that the annual maintenance share required of New Mexico not exceed $4 Million. Bobbie reports that Amtrak has told Senator Udall that they are compiling what the state needs.


I met with Patricia Dominguez, Staff Liaison with Senator Heinrich in Santa Fe, and other staff members last week to update her and them on the issue. I asked her to also have Senator Heinrich contact Boardman with the same request we made through Bobbie Ferrell.

Lynn Aldrich, NM Representative to the NARP Governing Council, has reached out to Jim Mathews, President of NARP, to request he also contact Joe Boardman. We sent Mr. Mathews a draft letter to forward to Boardman which contained the same request made through Bobbie Ferrell. We have not heard back yet.

These requests were premised on sidebar conversations with various NM legislators after both interim hearings earlier this fall.

The Colorado Commission met last Friday. Amtrak released new cost estimates for CO and KS based on new data received from BNSF. Amtrak has not completed new estimated costs for New Mexico. The numbers that were released are attached. The commission heard that NM capital costs will be less but maintenance costs may be more due to Amtrak’s sole use of the line from Trinidad to Lamy. The Commission voted to negotiate with NMDOT as well at KDOT, CDOT, Amtrak and BNSF and to join in a new TIGER grant application for capital funding. They were told that Sec Tom Church is willing to join such a venture. The Federal budget bill recently signed by President Obama contains renewal TIGER Grant funding. We will be urging NM to join in the new TIGER application.

 

[rubber duck]

The legal issue still stands and how are you going to replace rail & ties ,replace bridges, and do roadbed work, plus install PTC on 40 million dollars for 200 miles of track? Have people from Colorado become so ignorant from "pot", that they can not understand English?

 

[neroden]

At my request, Bobbie Ferrell, Staff Liaison with Senator Udall in Santa Fe, requested staff in Washington to contact Joe Boardman to request (I know, too many “requests”) a letter committing Amtrak to run its train over the northern route for a period of at least 20 years, and committing that the annual maintenance share required of New Mexico not exceed $4 Million. Bobbie reports that Amtrak has told Senator Udall that they are compiling what the state needs.

Oh god dumb dumb dumb Amtrak. Don't fall for this, it's a trap!

What's going to happen is that

(a) It will cost more than $4 million/year; Amtrak will initially pay this out of pocket, and then in the next cash crisis, will cut it and the trains will slow down even more....

(b) in a few years, NM will not provide the $4 million/year because it will be ruled unconstitutional at the state level as long as BNSF owns the line

Amtrak has not completed new estimated costs for New Mexico. The numbers that were released are attached.

NM is not going to be happy with these costs.
You know, or NM could *buy the line* and settle all of this. With BNSF not using the line, buying it makes sense. Which is why Richardson *already bought it*, until Martinez reneged.

 

[rubber duck]

So if some in NM gov't went for federal grants and NM was awarded them,New Mexico could not spend them, so what good to go for them?

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Don't fall for this, it's a trap!

 

[chakk]

Perhaps Belen will simply become the latest rendition of Maricopa?

 

[greatcats]

chakk - It has been reported here a number of times that due to the track layout around Belen, it is impractical to have Amtrak stop there. If the re-route does take place, it seems to have been the intention all along to run the train to Albuquerque and reverse it on the wye track.

 

[Anderson]

I wonder if Raton Pass could get some sort of PTC waiver so long as there's nobody else using it but the SWC...I'm sure there will end up being some other odd-and-end waivering here and there for extremely thinly-used lines (if nothing else, expect the Class Is to imitate the sheriff's escape from the mob in Blazing Saddles...threaten to just cut service if they have to dump a lot into a random branch for a stray couple of hazmat cars).

Edit: I do wonder...could something be set up whereby Amtrak would buy the section of track BNSF wants to dump with, say, TIGER money (thereby nominally getting NM off the hook for the "funding to a private company" mess that seems to be at issue)? Assuming that freight could be routed over the line, I'd be surprised if the line didn't get pushed into use eventually, even as a backup "vent" route.

 

[neroden]

Edit: I do wonder...could something be set up whereby Amtrak would buy the section of track BNSF wants to dump with, say, TIGER money (thereby nominally getting NM off the hook for the "funding to a private company" mess that seems to be at issue)?

NM could even buy the track itself. The key is for the track to not be controlled by a private company when the state funds upgrades to it, that keeps it all in the clear.
Given that Amtrak leased track from CSX using funds from NY, something could be done along similar lines in NM,... if the state government was willing to actually *do* it.

Given that Martinez reneged on a signed-and-sealed purchase agreement for this exact line, I am extremely suspicious.

 

[Ryan]

chakk - It has been reported here a number of times that due to the track layout around Belen, it is impractical to have Amtrak stop there. If the re-route does take place, it seems to have been the intention all along to run the train to Albuquerque and reverse it on the wye track.

Lots of people say that, but I'm not sure how accurate it is. At present, the platform track dead ends just to the south of the station, but it appears there is plenty of space to add a connection at that end to make it a run-through track that Amtrak would be able to access.

 

[rubber duck]

A leased track to Amtrak by BNSF still leaves that track owned by BNSF. Even the free use of the track by BNSF, if owned by New Mexico would be prohibited. That Clause is very plain and blunt. The phrase directly or indirectly is quite a "monkey wrench".

 

[les]

I've heard two things recently that favor Amtrak not rerouting.

1) Cost of stations and other expenses are prohibitive "Lang also emphasized that moving the Chief to the Southern Transcon will be a very expensive proposition -- much more expensive than retaining the train on the current route -- due to the need to lengthen sidings, re-time grade crossing signals, and upgrade the signaling system to handle the Chief which operates at speeds higher than freight trains. He also emphasized that Amtrak does not have the funding available to re-route the train."

2) Maintaining the current route will be a lot less than originally thought. "Pueblo County Commissioner Sal Pace, who chairs the Southwest Chief Commission, said the formal, one-time cost to upgrade the rail through Southern Colorado is $8.9 million. “That’s significantly less than the $40 million we were dealing with less than a year ago,” Pace said Friday, following the group’s meeting in Trinidad.

He said the price tag is the result of negotiating with the Burlington Northern and Santa Fe Railroad to get the railroad to cover the costs of maintaining the line while joining with Kansas to secure a $22 million federal TIGER grant to help upgrade portions of the line from Southeastern Colorado to Topeka, Kan."

It's too bad Gov. Martinez isn't a visionary. With the line purchased and Colorado working on connecting Pueblo and eventually Colo Springs/Denver

to the line it would be a huge economic boost to the area.

 

[Chey]

Too bad nothing ever got going with the Caprock Chief. The cities it would have served - FTW, Lubbock, Amarillo, Pueblo, the Springs and Denver... it would have been a godsend to a lot of people who were (are) hoping against hope for the SWC alternate route.

 

[neroden]

It's too bad Gov. Martinez isn't a visionary. With the line purchased and Colorado working on connecting Pueblo and eventually Colo Springs/Denver

to the line it would be a huge economic boost to the area.

Yeah, I think we were all hoping for that. :-( But no, she's not a visionary like Richardson was.

 

[rubber duck]

What you have heard is not the truth, it is high pressure sales talk and garbage. The stations needed have already been committed to by cities and owner, so that is no cost to Amtrak. The needed sidings is for station platforms. Current sidings are all able to handle current train lengths on Transcon route: where as all sidings on current "Chief" route would have to be lengthened for freight traffic to meet BNSF spec. PLUS the entire portion of New Mexico part will have to be replaced included bridges and a lot of roadbed reworked. PLUS PTC will begin soon and current "Chief" route from La Junta to 22 miles west of Lamy does not have PTC and will not have it. When PTC goes into effect passenger trains can only haul passengers on PTC protected rail. The 22 million$ grant ask for was granted at 12.5 million$ and applies from Las Animas Co eastward to Newton Ks. Maybe back to back oil trains??? Go back and read all the post to this thread, you will enjoy it.

 

[MattW]

Is PTC really as a big a deal for Raton? As I understand it, the Downeaster will not be operating over PTC-protected trackage, but will continue on its current schedule of 5 roundtrips, not separated from freight trackage. I know they have a waiver, is the problem simply that there isn't enough time to get Raton waivered now?