Southwest Chief News & Future Operations

[fredmcain]

The status quo *IS* an option if Congress mandates it. So far they have just passed a resolution but I would be surprised if they back down.

Regards,

FMC

 

[Thirdrail7]

The status quo *IS* an option if Congress mandates it. So far they have just passed a resolution but I would be surprised if they back down.

Regards,

FMC

You mean if Congress (or someone else) FUNDS it.

 

[fredmcain]

The status quo *IS* an option if Congress mandates it. So far they have just passed a resolution but I would be surprised if they back down.

Regards,

FMC

You mean if Congress (or someone else) FUNDS it.

Well, yes, of course. The current pending legislation provides $50 million (if I understood that right) and taken together with state monies that should bring us closer to the $100 million figure that was thrown out in the "leak". *BUT* this legislation has NOT passed the House yet! The house could raise the funding, cut it, or elimination the whole thing altogether. We have no choice but to wait and see. In the meantime, if you feel strongly about this, keep hammering on your rep.

Regards,

FMC

 

[jis]

Don't worry, as soon as the $100 million is secured, the mysterious Amtrak fake number generator will up the ante to $200 million

 

[RPC]

Adding another twist to an already complicated plot...has anyone else noticed that the bus bridge is described as between Albuquerque and Dodge City or wherever? But the SWC line from the west joins the Rail Runner tracks in Isleta Village, ten miles or so south of Albuquerque. So if PTC is the sticking point, the Chief can't even get to ABQ from the west and the train/bus transfer would need to take place in Isleta (or Belen). (Can you say "blech?")

 

[Mystic River Dragon]

That's the 10 miles that you hike from the train to the bus.

 

[cpotisch]

Don't worry, as soon as the $100 million is secured, the mysterious Amtrak fake number generator will up the ante to $200 million

And then after upping it to $200 million, they'll say that that's just too much for it to be justifiable altogether.

 

[cpotisch]

Adding another twist to an already complicated plot...has anyone else noticed that the bus bridge is described as between Albuquerque and Dodge City or wherever? But the SWC line from the west joins the Rail Runner tracks in Isleta Village, ten miles or so south of Albuquerque. So if PTC is the sticking point, the Chief can't even get to ABQ from the west and the train/bus transfer would need to take place in Isleta (or Belen). (Can you say "blech?")

No. The plan was for the train to terminate in Albuquerque coming east, passengers would switch to a bus to Dodge City or Kansas City, and then the train would resume there and continue on to Chicago. It was not that the train stops before Albuquerque and only the bus runs there.

 

[fredmcain]

Adding another twist to an already complicated plot...has anyone else noticed that the bus bridge is described as between Albuquerque and Dodge City or wherever? But the SWC line from the west joins the Rail Runner tracks in Isleta Village, ten miles or so south of Albuquerque. So if PTC is the sticking point, the Chief can't even get to ABQ from the west and the train/bus transfer would need to take place in Isleta (or Belen). (Can you say "blech?")

No. The plan was for the train to terminate in Albuquerque coming east, passengers would switch to a bus to Dodge City or Kansas City, and then the train would resume there and continue on to Chicago. It was not that the train stops before Albuquerque and only the bus runs there.

I dunno. I get the idea that, after reading through that "leaked" article again, that the whole concept of a "bus bridge" is probably dead. But they did not say what they intend to do other than "all options". They did say that they are willing to continue working with the states to find a solution so maybe the whole thing really is an attempt at gold digging.

Another possible falsehood in the leak is that there is no PTC for the 348 miles from Dodge to Albuquerque. Is that for sure right? JIS and I were discussing this before and I thought we'd decided that it is only WEST of Trinidad that will not get PTC. I thought I saw BNSF installing PTC-like "Darth Vader" signals when I rode over the line last summer as far west as Trinidad. The historic open-wire code lines were also coming down along there.

Regards,

Fred M. CaIN

 

[railiner]

Adding another twist to an already complicated plot...has anyone else noticed that the bus bridge is described as between Albuquerque and Dodge City or wherever? But the SWC line from the west joins the Rail Runner tracks in Isleta Village, ten miles or so south of Albuquerque. So if PTC is the sticking point, the Chief can't even get to ABQ from the west and the train/bus transfer would need to take place in Isleta (or Belen). (Can you say "blech?")

No. The plan was for the train to terminate in Albuquerque coming east, passengers would switch to a bus to Dodge City or Kansas City, and then the train would resume there and continue on to Chicago. It was not that the train stops before Albuquerque and only the bus runs there.

RPC is pointing out that the train coming from the west, can't reach Albuquerque all the way, due to that PTC issue over the last few miles from Isleta to Albuquerque...

 

[fredmcain]

Adding another twist to an already complicated plot...has anyone else noticed that the bus bridge is described as between Albuquerque and Dodge City or wherever? But the SWC line from the west joins the Rail Runner tracks in Isleta Village, ten miles or so south of Albuquerque. So if PTC is the sticking point, the Chief can't even get to ABQ from the west and the train/bus transfer would need to take place in Isleta (or Belen). (Can you say "blech?")

No. The plan was for the train to terminate in Albuquerque coming east, passengers would switch to a bus to Dodge City or Kansas City, and then the train would resume there and continue on to Chicago. It was not that the train stops before Albuquerque and only the bus runs there.

RPC is pointing out that the train coming from the west, can't reach Albuquerque all the way, due to that PTC issue over the last few miles from Isleta to Albuquerque...

Kinda seems to me - in at least a few cases - that it is actually *ANDERSON* who is making some of the PTC mandates, not Congress or the FRA. Several people on this group have already pointed out some puzzling inconsistencies.

-FMC

 

[cpotisch]

redacted. Sorry y'all!

 

[jis]

Adding another twist to an already complicated plot...has anyone else noticed that the bus bridge is described as between Albuquerque and Dodge City or wherever? But the SWC line from the west joins the Rail Runner tracks in Isleta Village, ten miles or so south of Albuquerque. So if PTC is the sticking point, the Chief can't even get to ABQ from the west and the train/bus transfer would need to take place in Isleta (or Belen). (Can you say "blech?")

No. The plan was for the train to terminate in Albuquerque coming east, passengers would switch to a bus to Dodge City or Kansas City, and then the train would resume there and continue on to Chicago. It was not that the train stops before Albuquerque and only the bus runs there.

RPC is pointing out that the train coming from the west, can't reach Albuquerque all the way, due to that PTC issue over the last few miles from Isleta to Albuquerque...

Kinda seems to me - in at least a few cases - that it is actually *ANDERSON* who is making some of the PTC mandates, not Congress or the FRA. Several people on this group have already pointed out some puzzling inconsistencies.

-FMC

Nope. Congress made the mandate. Anderson is the one choosing how to deal with it, but Congress made the mandate.

Congress did not make a mandate about requiring PTC on a segment that carries only one train each way. That is something that even the FRA did not mandate. That is something that Anderson dreamed up. So either you are just plain wrong, or are being disingenuous.

 

[cpotisch]

Kinda seems to me - in at least a few cases - that it is actually *ANDERSON* who is making some of the PTC mandates, not Congress or the FRA. Several people on this group have already pointed out some puzzling inconsistencies.

-FMC

Nope. Congress made the mandate. Anderson is the one choosing how to deal with it, but Congress made the mandate.

Congress did not make a mandate about requiring PTC on a segment that carries only one train each way. That is something that even the FRA did not mandate. That is something that Anderson dreamed up. So either you are just plain wrong, or are being disingenuous.

The former. I was thinking of the F&B mandate and got it confused with Anderson's PTC one.

 

[jis]

http://www.dodgeglobe.com/news/20180815/future-of-southwest-chief-remains-in-balance

 

[frequentflyer]

So what does BNSF spend 50 million on this route? Does it get banked and spent over the period of 20 years some posters are stating that BNSF states will keep mx up on the line?

 

[jis]

So what does BNSF spend 50 million on this route? Does it get banked and spent over the period of 20 years some posters are stating that BNSF states will keep mx up on the line?

My understanding is that BNSF's commitment is contingent upon getting the trackage up to state of good repair and the signals upto current standards. That Capital Cost is what is being bickered about and where the $50 million and $100 million numbers are being tossed about, that is to be spent over the next 5 or so years. Once the track and signal are in that state BNSF has offered to maintain them in that state for 20 years.

Mind you, this is my vague understanding and it could be wrong.

Unfortunately at present given Amtrak's attitude it is to their advantage to obfuscate and stretch truth to the limit or a bit beyond to give a picture that the SWC is hopelessly expensive, and that is what they are doing. They should be asked to provide a full detailed accounting of their claims since they have not proved to be very trustworthy.

 

[fredmcain]

So what does BNSF spend 50 million on this route? Does it get banked and spent over the period of 20 years some posters are stating that BNSF states will keep mx up on the line?

My understanding is that BNSF's commitment is contingent upon getting the trackage up to state of good repair and the signals upto current standards. That Capital Cost is what is being bickered about and where the $50 million and $100 million numbers are being tossed about, that is to be spent over the next 5 or so years. Once the track and signal are in that state BNSF has offered to maintain them in that state for 20 years.

Mind you, this is my vague understanding and it could be wrong.

Unfortunately at present given Amtrak's attitude it is to their advantage to obfuscate and stretch truth to the limit or a bit beyond to give a picture that the SWC is hopelessly expensive, and that is what they are doing. They should be asked to provide a full detailed accounting of their claims since they have not proved to be very trustworthy.

Nope. Congress made the mandate. Anderson is the one choosing how to deal with it, but Congress made the mandate.

Congress did not make a mandate about requiring PTC on a segment that carries only one train each way. That is something that even the FRA did not mandate. That is something that Anderson dreamed up. So either you are just plain wrong, or are being disingenuous.

Well, yes, Congress did come up with the PTC mandate after the devastating wreck on the UP near Ventura a number of years ago. But, I guess what I meant by Anderson making the mandate is that he is INTERPRETING the mandate in such a way as to fit his own agenda.

Regards,

FMC

 

[Devil's Advocate]

IIRC, there is a federal mandate for PTC on qualifying sections of track, such as designated hazardous materials routes and segments that carry passenger traffic above a given speed or frequency. What Anderson has done is implement a SEPARATE Amtrak-specific zero tolerance policy which states ALL passenger traffic MUST be over PTC compliant track REGARDLESS of any applicable mandates or waivers at the federal level. Or at least that is my understanding.

 

[west point]

Any truth that Senate passed Amtrak portion of bill guaranteeing SWC will operate full route ?

 

[RPC]

Adding another twist to an already complicated plot...has anyone else noticed that the bus bridge is described as between Albuquerque and Dodge City or wherever? But the SWC line from the west joins the Rail Runner tracks in Isleta Village, ten miles or so south of Albuquerque. So if PTC is the sticking point, the Chief can't even get to ABQ from the west and the train/bus transfer would need to take place in Isleta (or Belen). (Can you say "blech?")

No. The plan was for the train to terminate in Albuquerque coming east, passengers would switch to a bus to Dodge City or Kansas City, and then the train would resume there and continue on to Chicago. It was not that the train stops before Albuquerque and only the bus runs there.

RPC is pointing out that the train coming from the west, can't reach Albuquerque all the way, due to that PTC issue over the last few miles from Isleta to Albuquerque...

Thanks. I was also obliquely pointing out that the original bus bridge proposal was even more capricious than it first seemed. Look at it from east to west: it's okay to run from CHI to Dodge City (we all agree on that), not okay to run from Dodge City to Rosario (north junction with RailRunner)(okay with FRA, not okay with Anderson), not okay to run from Rosario to ABQ (not okay with FRA or Anderson), okay to run from ABQ to Isleta (south junction with RailRunner)(not okay with FRA, apparently okay with Anderson), okay to run from Isleta to Dalies (okay with FRA, okay with Anderson, but I don't think this segment is getting PTC). This is "decision-based data making" at its finest.

 

[me_little_me]

Kinda seems to me - in at least a few cases - that it is actually *ANDERSON* who is making some of the PTC mandates, not Congress or the FRA. Several people on this group have already pointed out some puzzling inconsistencies.

-FMC

Wasn't that the case a few months ago when he said something about not running his trains on tracks w/o PTC after the end of the year?

 

[jis]

We are all waiting with bated breath to see the objective documented SMS analysis supporting the absurd stance. Maybe American Engineers have to be modeled as the most incompetent in the world to arrive at Anderson’s desired results. But it would be good to know what the assumptions are that go into the analysis.

 

[fredmcain]

Any truth that Senate passed Amtrak portion of bill guaranteeing SWC will operate full route ?

Oh, probably not but at the very least it could well make Anderson's life politically more difficult. I'm not sure Congress can fire Anderson (we've discussed that here before) but what they COULD do is make things miserable enough for him that he might just resign.

Regards,

Fred M. Cain

 

[fredmcain]

We are all waiting with bated breath to see the objective documented SMS analysis supporting the absurd stance. Maybe American Engineers have to be modeled as the most incompetent in the world to arrive at Anderson’s desired results. But it would be good to know what the assumptions are that go into the analysis.

Alright, JIS, I'm going go out and expose my ignorance here. What is the "SMS analysis"?

Regards,

FMC