Slumbercoaches

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NativeSon5859

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I remember seeing in old Crescent timetables that the train used to have a Slumbercoach operate ATL-NYP. My question is this....

What made the Slumbercoach rooms less expensive than the standard Heritage Roomettes? Did they just have room for one person in those? Were the meals not included in the price?

I think these cars lasted until the mid 90's on 19/20. Perhaps revisting the Slumbercoach concept would be a good idea down the road.
 
Meals were not included and the rooms were much smaller. Bill Haithcoat utilized these accommodations in the 1980s and could probably give some more information. :)
 
My experiences with slumbercoaches were mostly positive, though I would not want them to be the ONLY option.There were single rooms and double rooms. In each case considerably smaller than corresponding "heritage" roometes and double bedrooms.

One thing to be said of a single slumbercoach over a rooomette--you could definately put the "bed" up(such as it was) and use the toilet at night without any trouble

You had to keep from bumping your head in the lower level single rooms because the single rooms were staggered, duplex style. People like me who fancy themselves as being at home in a sleeping car room even at night in the dark had to be extra careful.

One thing I finally figured out-----the best way for me to travel as a single and somewhat heavy passenger was to use a double room. It was all I needed and more. And well worth the price difference, as the prices were still WAY below standard sleeper. You saved more on prices than you lost in amenities is what I am trying to say.

Slumbercoach design meant you could cram a larger number of people into the car than in a standard sleeper, thus contributing to the lower cost.

The cost of the slumbercoaches was it's big draw. No meals were included. But do keep in mind that meals did not even begin to be included in standard sleepers until 1986......that is not something from the"good old days"...........so, go further back in time when there were both standard sleepers(not only with roomettes and bedrooms but also compartments, drawing rooms, master rooms, etc) and slumbercoaches, you had to pay for your meals regardless so that was not part of the buy out, that is, until 1986. From 1986 forward, of course, it was a legtimate difference.

I don't think they shined your shoes either. They probably did not volunteer to serve you in your room but I cannot imagine them turning down a handicapped person, surely not.

Of course there was no free provided coffee, tea etc but that, too , was a 1986 development, not something from standard sleepers in the "old days". Supposedly you did not get a wake-up call but I never knew that NOT to happen....they cheerily ignored that rule.

Slumbercoach interior furnishings were not as luxurious as standard sleeper rooms---a lot of exposed steel, counter tops, and other surfaces, low on cushions, etc.

TRUE slumbercoaches were a stainless steel Budd Company 1956 invention for the re-equipping of the Denver Zephyr, a train which did last into the Amtrak era but was eventualy discontinued, not to be confused with the CZ.

But pre-Amtrak, there were various other types and designs of "budget sleepers"(i.e. various names) . For example, some railroads took an old heavy weight sleeper out of the mothballs, put it on an otherwise streamlined light weight train , perhaps stripped if of an amenity or two and called it names like "thrify-T sleepers". Understand that these are just examples. There were a number of ploys. I recall the New York Central took some 22 roomette cars, stripped them down in some fashion(exactly what was striped away I do not remember, probably fewer sheets, fewer pillows, close off the shoeshine box, things like that) and charged a very small price for them. Don't remember what they called them....

One of the most interesting true slumbercoach operations was a through car in pre-Amtrak days which went from Baltimore to San Antonio. It was handled by the B&O's National Limited from Baltimore to St. Louis, then transferred to the Missouri Pacific Texas Eagle at St.Louis to to go San Antonio. Each of these trains were predominantly blue but this was an unpainted stainless steel car.

Many readers on this forum are well aware that there were a number of through sleeper sleeping cars across the country like that, but so far as I know this was the only slumbercoach operation of that sort.

Few trains which had slumbercoaches( or thrifty sleepers etc etc) had more than one in their consists. through
 
Very interesting Bill, thank you!

So the rooms were actually stacked on top of each other? Perhaps I misunderstood you. That would surely make for a tight squeeze in those Heritage cars!
 
The single rooms were stacked partly on each other. Yes, they were tight. Double slumbercoach rooms and regular sleepers were not done so.

I you have ever seen a picture of a slumbercoach you will notice that window pattern.

You use the word "heritage"-----I am not sure if slumbercaoches lasted into the era when Amtrak rejuvenated its old cars(HEP, retention toilets etc) and began calling them "heritage". Maybe so, maybe not.

There were also rooms in standard pre-Amtrak sleepers which were called " duplex roomettes"and they, too, were stacked partially on top of each other.
 
Thanks for providing the photo.

That answers the doubt I had as to whether the slumbercoaches made it into the point in time when Amtrak began calling its remaining better old cars "heritage". Obviously, from this, that did include slumbercoaches.

Hard to tell about the window patterns. In a way, those windows at the far left look like they could be the rooms staggered on top but yet that would not be enough windows to answer for that , so I can't tell from looking.
 
I have looked at all the pictures others have linked. Some of the cars have 6 of the above & below windows and others have 12. Were there two different styles of this car, or is it different from side to the other?
 
MrFSS said:
I have looked at all the pictures others have linked.  Some of the cars have 6 of the above & below windows and others have 12.  Were there two different styles of this car, or is it different from side to the other?


Some of each, I suspect. Go back to my long post and how I mentioned actually that there were several cars of this type, including some rebuilt for NYC, and other railroads, as well as some built as slumbercoaches originally. I think that could answer the question about more than one design; but it is also possible that some of them looked different on each side of the car. Pardon if the memory is a little hazy.

I note that the photos above do not show any of the heavyweights rebuilt as budget sleepers. But even of the streamlined slumbers some were built that way originally and some were rebuilt into it.
 
I'm quite interested in this thread as the concept of a less expensive sleeper is very appealing.

I've looked at the pictures and am having a hard time envisioning the interior of the cars. How were the single rooms on the top accessed? Were the cars physically divided into two short levels, or were there steps to each room in the hallway?

Thanks

Chad
 
No, not two levels. There were steps to the higher rooms in the hallway. Walk down the hall way, every other room would be at floor level. The

other rooms you would walkup two or three short steps.

I recently was reminded of this on the "Canadian"--not that it has slumbercoaches, but it does in some few sleepers have the duplex roomettes from the past (mentioned in my second post near the beginning of this thread).

If you can find a floor plan of the "Chateau" sleepers (with its duplex roomettes) on Viarail Canada, it might help you visualize a slumbercoach floor plan. The via timetable has such, I think.
 
If you ever get down here to Miami, make sure to check out the Gold Coast Railroad Museum. They have many (if not all of the cars) from the Cal Zephyr. You can walk through the cars and really get a feel for what they were like.
 
battalion51 said:
If you ever get down here to Miami, make sure to check out the Gold Coast Railroad Museum. They have many (if not all of the cars) from the Cal Zephyr. You can walk through the cars and really get a feel for what they were like.




That is neat- I just checked up on the Gold Coast Museum and saw some interesting cars there, including a Denver Zephyr slumbercoach, as well as several cars from the Cal Zephyr, as you stated.
 
Northern Pacific's North Coast Limited was another famous train that used and advertised slumbercoaches for many years.
 
steve_relei said:
Northern Pacific's North Coast Limited was another famous train that used and advertised slumbercoaches for many years.


Indeed it was. And I believe, the secondary train on that route, the Mainstreeter, ended life with nothing but coaches and a slumbercoach, no pullmans. That was a little unusual.
 
They had 16-10 Slumbercoaches as well as 24-8s. They lasted till Early 1996 IIRC.
 
I miss the "Slumbercoaches." They were easy to work! And rode nice, too! :D
 
Too bad about the slumbercoaches. They were a good idea and relatively popular. Guess they were part of the "too little---too late" package for passenger railroading.

I have a theory about the decline of passenger rail. This is in addition to improved highways, improved airways, lack of funding , and, in the late 60's, the loss of the U.S. mail contract.

My thinking centers around the timing of WW 2. Before WW11 streamlining, diesels, air conditoning, reclining coach seats had begun on a small scale. They were to expand a great deal after WW11. Then the dome was invented in 1946 or so, the slumbercoach in 1956 and hi-levels about the same time. Just barely before the war, much more after it, roomettes were invented and tended to replace old section sleepers.

Problem is, the railroad riding public had already been alienated, because WW11 caught the railroads "with their pants down" so to speak. Equipment was old and rusty, and many of our military rode in outdated contraptions(and with soot from the steam engines getting into the non air-conditoned equipment.) That soot thing is great if you are by choice on a steam engine excursion, today, but back then you had no choice. Probably not so much fun.

Then there were "troop sleepers",i.e., old freight cars rebult into bunks three a top each other, few windows.

What I am trying to say is that if our fighting men and women had ridden in more diesels, streamliners, air conditioning, domes, slumbercoaches roomettes, RDC's, etc, etc,etc they would have brought back with them from the war a much better impression of passenger railroading, would have been willing for themselves and their new families to continue riding trains after the war.

As it is, what the railroads valiantly tried to do after the war was play catch-up and it never quite happened. Slumbercoaches were part of this. Too bad they were not invented in 1936 instread of 1956.

We might be looking at a very different passenger train landscape in this country today if only the military had ridden in newer better equipment.
 
Nice to hear from you again Bill. I too, rode the Slumbercoaches many times especially on the Broadway and Lake Shore. True you could use the toilet without raising the bed. The bed however was quite small with a very thin matress.

New York Central actually sent some 22 Roomette cars back to Budd and had them converted into "Sleepercoaches" in the 1960's for use on the 20th Century and New England States. These cars were similar to NP's but interestingly had 4 single rooms that were roomette size in dimensions. I believe these were rooms 1,2,3 and 4. I usually asked to get one of these rooms if one of an ex NYC car was used. These cars were usually on the Lake Shore.

They were a great value. It's too bad economy sleepers are no longer an option on Amtrak. The cars were always popular but were plagued with the same toilet issues of the 10-6. In addition, the cars were quite old and trouble prone by the end.

If anyone is interested there are some currently for sale.
 
:D a great day for the LOCH SLOY a ex Northern Pacific Slumbercoach. It is at the Illinois Railway Musuem just northwest of Ohare Airport in Chicago.

the AMTRAK marking on one side are already stripped of and the NP Lettering will be restored this summer.

[email protected]
 
its too bad amtrak doesnt have economical sleepers for single passengers these days. I cannot afford the outrageous prices amtrak charges for sleepers (im a low budget single traveller)
 
I rode slumbercoach CIN-WAS many times. Upper level Single every time. I really liked it. There were cars that had just gone HEP, so everything worked.

Slumbercoaches aren't set up like so many believe: They're "L" shaped, with the "L" laying on its side, facing up and facing down, alternatingly. Whether upper or lower, the entry part of the compartment is full-height, with the upper having a step-up. The overlapping part is where your feet go when you go to bed.

Slumbercoaches lived until Amtrak was required to convert from Hopper to Retention toilets-- they weren't worth the cost, especially when they were getting so old that existing rules would require x-raying parts of the trucks and frames, as well as parts having to be custom-machined.
 
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