Silver Star has new Café menu and no diner

[OBS]

I was afraid this was going to happen. The new National timetable makes NO mention of Dining Car for the Silver Star ( as opposed to mentioning it returning in the spring).

As soon as I saw that, I smelled trouble....

 

[Devil's Advocate]

With no proof, I find it hard to believe that the dinner will never come back.

Maybe it'll be back in the form of a vending machine with "Amtrak Diner" on the front.

I was afraid this was going to happen. The new National timetable makes NO mention of Dining Car for the Silver Star ( as opposed to mentioning it returning in the spring). As soon as I saw that, I smelled trouble....

I smelled trouble when Boardman promised that major dining service loses would somehow be resolved or erased in the next few years.

 

[Bob Dylan]

I was afraid this was going to happen. The new National timetable makes NO mention of Dining Car for the Silver Star ( as opposed to mentioning it returning in the spring).

As soon as I saw that, I smelled trouble....

Yep, the vending machines are on the way for the Star and the CONO! Right out of the old SP Playbook,!

 

[AmtrakLKL]

I wonder if Amtrak could do a "reverse" experiment with the Silver Meteor.

Add a Business Class coach, physically located on the Sleeper side of the Dining Car, and have BC include meals too. Kind of echoing the AutoTrain upgrading their new BC passengers to Sleeper level meals.

Silver Star: No meals. Bring a bologna sandwich from home, or buy a Kwik-E-Mart hot dog from café.

Silver Meteor: Meals for Sleeper and Business Class. Maybe even add a second Dining Car to handle the number of diners (the one the Star will never be using).

There was talk of adding a business class to the Meteor many years ago. Called for coaches with 2-1 leather seating and providing an upgraded soft product (amenity kit, coffee, tea, juice, newspaper, etc). Obviously didn't happen, possibly due to the upfront cost of re-configuring the cars and the subsequent loss of coach capacity. Maybe with Amtrak proving the existing seats sell with just the upgraded soft product, perhaps it'll come back around.

In the back of my mind I just worry business class coming to the Star would spell the end of sleepers there. Not that Amtrak has a history of replacing sleepers with business class on a Silver Service train before...

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

I was afraid this was going to happen. The new National timetable makes NO mention of Dining Car for the Silver Star ( as opposed to mentioning it returning in the spring).

As soon as I saw that, I smelled trouble....

Yep, the vending machines are on the way for the Star and the CONO! Right out of the old SP Playbook,!

Interestingly, some of the new super hi-tech Vending Machines can actually dish out chow that is better than what the Diners currently put out. I've even seen Vending Machines that dump out Sushi, but unless Amtrak starts to allow cats on board, we'll stay away from those

 

[jis]

The future of the Amtrak Florida services looks very poor from where I'm looking. All Aboard Florida is poised to eat their intra-Florida business; first Orlando-Miami, then Orlando-Jacksonville and Miami-Jacksonville, and everyone expects Tampa next.

Brightline (formerly known as All Aboard Florida) can't get anyone to buy their tax-free municipal bonds to pay for the construction. They just received a second extension for one more year to sell the bonds. It appears investors are skeptical there will be enough riders to make a profit (gasp!).

Nah, they're just raising the interest rates. You can always sell bonds if the interest rate is high enough.
Construction is actually already *happening*, so the bonds are backfill financing.

AAF has said several times that using those bonds is a convenience, not a necessity. Even if they are not sold they have the ability to finance the entire project using other resources. It is amazing what sort of things are possible when a huge real estate empire is providing financial backing!

 

[AmtrakLKL]

The future of the Amtrak Florida services looks very poor from where I'm looking. All Aboard Florida is poised to eat their intra-Florida business; first Orlando-Miami, then Orlando-Jacksonville and Miami-Jacksonville, and everyone expects Tampa next.

Brightline (formerly known as All Aboard Florida) can't get anyone to buy their tax-free municipal bonds to pay for the construction. They just received a second extension for one more year to sell the bonds. It appears investors are skeptical there will be enough riders to make a profit (gasp!).

Nah, they're just raising the interest rates. You can always sell bonds if the interest rate is high enough.
Construction is actually already *happening*, so the bonds are backfill financing.

AAF has said several times that using those bonds is a convenience, not a necessity. Even if they are not sold they have the ability to finance the entire project using other resources. It is amazing what sort of things are possible when a huge real estate empire is providing financial backing!

I have no doubt it will be built and both hope and expect it to be successful. However, whatever ridership numbers they're trying to sell to investors must not be very convincing.

I don't expect Brightline will significantly impact Amtrak. There is a good chance it will raise Amtrak's ridership by growing awareness and the overall market for rail transportation. The new Brightline advertising and marketing will inevitably lead some people to Amtrak. Once there, people may find convenience in the additional stations Amtrak serves throughout Florida or the lower fares compared to Brightline.

 

[neroden]

I'm not as optimistic as you are. I think *overall*, *nationally*, Brightline will be good for Amtrak. I expect people riding Brightline will add to the Amtrak ridership from Florida to NY and beyond, as "train awareness" causes them to consider taking train trips they didn't know about before.

But the Silver Service has a lot of intra-Florida business, and I simply don't see that continuing once Brightline is serving the same corridor. Amtrak trains are slow and are often delayed because they're coming from up north. Brightline trains will run on time, and faster. Amtrak's intra-Florida business will mostly vanish.

Which is fine for passenger rail as a whole! It just means that Amtrak ought to be focusing on the Florida-Northwards business and I don't see them doing that.

 

[Palmetto]

Brightline has already mentioned the possibility of going up to JAX in the future. Going over to Tampa is a hope of some people there, but Brightline acknowledged they'll have to deal with CSX, and it would be more of a challenge than it would be to go up to JAX on their own tracks.

 

[CHamilton]

From the Facebook Silver Star and Silver Meteor group.

 

[greatcats]

Morons.

 

[Acela150]

I think Jishnu had a good response to it.

 

[Anderson]

In light of recent events...I agree a lot more than I wish I did.

 

[rrdude]

Saw this on a FB posting yesterday, in "America's Amtrak" FB group. Can someone confirm or deny? Amtrak's booking engine shows the SS diner only removed thru April 30th. This would truly suck, and increase the angle of the so-called, "Slippery Slope".

Apologies: Saw this was already announced in another thread, HERE, so if Mods want to merge or delete this fine, so it DOES look official, that really, really, really, sux.

 

[Paulus]

Not surprising given the massive amount of money Amtrak saves by not hauling a diner.

 

[niemi24s]

I think this is great. One less diner for the food snoots to bellyache about food quality.

 

[rrdude]

I think this is great. One less diner for the food snoots to bellyache about food quality.

You think an LD train without a diner is a good idea?

I guess I am one of the "Food Snoots" you refer to, but having worked on board Amtrak as a kid, I know the quality of food that CAN be produced and served in the diners. It is like watching your favorite restaurant, of 30 or 40 years, start serving food that is not even as good as what you get at a Denny's or Applebee's. I guess if you think that is good food, (and I certainly do not) that makes me a food snoot.

If there is not going to be a diner, then I am all for contracting the AmCan food service out, it cannot be any worse............(maybe it can, but that would be a new low)

 

[edjbox]

Amtrak should've put a diner/lounge on the Silver Star like they do with the Cardinal

 

[Cho Cho Charlie]

You think an LD train without a diner is a good idea?

Its a good idea, only as long as the Amtrak LD trains makes regular stops to give all passengers a chance to get off, and have a local meal; breakfast, lunch, and dinner/supper.

Remember, dining cars were added to LD passenger trains, not because the RR wanted to get into the lucrative restaurant business, but rather to eliminate these long meal stops.

 

[Philly Amtrak Fan]

You think an LD train without a diner is a good idea?

Its a good idea, only as long as the Amtrak LD trains makes regular stops to give all passengers a chance to get off, and have a local meal; breakfast, lunch, and dinner/supper.

Remember, dining cars were added to LD passenger trains, not because the RR wanted to get into the lucrative restaurant business, but rather to eliminate these long meal stops.

Contrary to popular opinion, lounge car food is still food. I went from Pennsylvania to California and back on lounge car food and I survived.

 

[jis]

Though it would be trivial to improve the menu for the lounge fare a bit on trains where they are subbing for diners.

 

[niemi24s]

You think an LD train without a diner is a good idea?

Sorry. Looks like my feeble attempt at a bit of humor fell flat on its face.

 

[Thirdrail7]

As many people suspected and Amtrak has a history of doing, once something is gone it tends not to come back. The Silver Star is now permanently diner-less. Inventory from May 1 on is currently closed while the pricing adjustments are entered. As before, anyone booked after May 1 is entitled to a refund or rebooking to the Silver Meteor.

Well, look at the bright side. Years ago, the Palmetto was a combined train that made local stops on the NEC. Then, they separated it and ran it as an additional train. Now, it is back to the way it used to be. See? it came back! Hope springs eternal, my young apprentice!!! :giggle:

Remember it is Amtrak. Inconsistency and unkept promises is their forte. You can never tell what will actually happen "forever" based on anyone's statement.

A change of regime is coming up. No choice other than to wait and see IMHO.

Indeed. Who knows what the next group will attempt. They learn by doing....and undoing....and redoing....and not doing...... :help:

 

[neroden]

Though it would be trivial to improve the menu for the lounge fare a bit on trains where they are subbing for diners.

Amtrak is remarkably unwilling to improve the lounge car menus on long-distance trains. This seems like a totally obvious thing to do but they won't do it.

 

[neroden]

Brightline has already mentioned the possibility of going up to JAX in the future. Going over to Tampa is a hope of some people there, but Brightline acknowledged they'll have to deal with CSX, and it would be more of a challenge than it would be to go up to JAX on their own tracks.

Why would they have to deal with CSX? They'll use the I-4 highway median which was reserved for high speed rail. Station at 22nd St. in Tampa.

Even if they want to go to Tampa Union Station, CSX couldn't care less about the last mile from Tampa Union Station and I'm sure they could get something running down Nuccio Parkway.