Secaucus Junction's cost ate up new Hudson River tunnel money

[jis]

Yes it would be way more expensive. But the original ARC MIS in the early '90s had set a clear goal to provide access to upper east side from NJ. This they abandoned on the way and devolved the project into one which met exactly none of the goals of the original study by the time it came time to construct anything. So I don't think anyone will ever bother with another station in Manhattan (other than Penn Station expansion possibly) unless it is on the upper east side. Hence the attraction of #7 to Secaucus, since it provides a more straightforward access to upper east side from across the river.

 

[BuzzKillington]

ARC tunnel design made no sense. #7 to Secaucus makes a little sense. Gateway makes more sense and is needed. I don't fault them for stopping ARC, but they really should have come up with a "better" plan before they cancelled it outright. Whatever they are doing back and forth now will not solve the problem.

 

[Andrew]

Thus, what do you see happening--just new tunnels into Penn Station via the Tunnel Box with or without Block 780's:

southern extension

OR

Deep-Level, which enables new tunnels to be extended to the East Side/Queens?

 

[Andrew]

Yes it would be way more expensive. But the original ARC MIS in the early '90s had set a clear goal to provide access to upper east side from NJ. This they abandoned on the way and devolved the project into one which met exactly none of the goals of the original study by the time it came time to construct anything. So I don't think anyone will ever bother with another station in Manhattan (other than Penn Station expansion possibly) unless it is on the upper east side. Hence the attraction of #7 to Secaucus, since it provides a more straightforward access to upper east side from across the river.

ARC tunnel design made no sense. #7 to Secaucus makes a little sense. Gateway makes more sense and is needed. I don't fault them for stopping ARC, but they really should have come up with a "better" plan before they cancelled it outright. Whatever they are doing back and forth now will not solve the problem.

Thus, what is more likely to occur: new tunnels connecting into Penn Station via the Tunnel Box without Block or, in contrast, with Block 780, but with:

a Block 780 Current Extension at the same track level

OR

A Deep-Level Block 780 Station--which enables tunneling to the East Side/Queens?

 

[jis]

Andrew, the official position as stated by the current lead agency, which is Amtrak has not changed since we started this conversation on AU 12 months back. It is two tunnels through the tunnel box connecting to Penn Station and the shallow Block 780 station first. You have seen pretty close to the latest slideset since I posted pointers to them here on AU.

As for what will happen .... stay tuned, maybe for quite a while. Afterall even ESA won't be done until 2019 now.

 

[Andrew]

Andrew, the official position as stated by the current lead agency, which is Amtrak has not changed since we started this conversation on AU 12 months back. It is two tunnels through the tunnel box connecting to Penn Station and the shallow Block 780 station first. You have seen pretty close to the latest slideset since I posted pointers to them here on AU.

As for what will happen .... stay tuned, maybe for quite a while. Afterall even ESA won't be done until 2019 now.

Thanks for clarifying that for me.

However, I can only imagine how much community opposition that will occur if the shallow Block 780 Station gets built. After all, this would create so much noise and dust that I can actually foresee many New Yorkers complaining about it (as some New Yorkers have complained about the noise from the Hudson Yards' Project).

Do you know of any Gateway-related PDF's that are due out soon?

 

[jis]

Thanks for clarifying that for me.

You are most welcome.

However, I can only imagine how much community opposition that will occur if the shallow Block 780 Station gets built. After all, this would create so much noise and dust that I can actually foresee many New Yorkers complaining about it (as some New Yorkers have complained about the noise from the Hudson Yards' Project).

It will all depend on what the real estate barons think they can get out of razing block 780 and building towers above the station. If they think it will be a profitable venture I am sure they will take care of any protestations just like they are with Hudson Yards. All that Amtrak has to do is offer air rights at a rate that the real estate folks like Vornado et. al. think is an attractive rate. It will be a nice connected extension of Hudson Yards Moynihan Station all the way to 7th Ave., in some sense.

Do you know of any Gateway-related PDF's that are due out soon?

No

 

[Andrew]

Thanks for clarifying that for me.

You are most welcome.

However, I can only imagine how much community opposition that will occur if the shallow Block 780 Station gets built. After all, this would create so much noise and dust that I can actually foresee many New Yorkers complaining about it (as some New Yorkers have complained about the noise from the Hudson Yards' Project).

It will all depend on what the real estate barons think they can get out of razing block 780 and building towers above the station. If they think it will be a profitable venture I am sure they will take care of any protestations just like they are with Hudson Yards. All that Amtrak has to do is offer air rights at a rate that the real estate folks like Vornado et. al. think is an attractive rate. It will be a nice connected extension of Hudson Yards Moynihan Station all the way to 7th Ave., in some sense.

Do you know of any Gateway-related PDF's that are due out soon?

No

Thus, perhaps New York City can issue bonds to fund the Block 780 Station (to be repaid back by property tax revenue from the new Block 780 Development) in the same way that the Seven Subway Extension was financed by the Bloomberg Administration issuing bonds to be paid by by property tax revenues from the new development.

 

[railiner]

Senator Schumer has laid some of the groundwork for such in the form of his proposed high speed connection to Stewart International Airport (I know, another airport and operated by PANYNJ most mysteriously, but I guess so is Atlantic City now). This would also involve building the loop at Secaucus that NE was railing against in this thread too.

Sorry for straying a bit off-topic, but I was surprised to read that the PANYNJ operates the Newburgh and Atlantic City airports....

Boy, talk about "Empire Building"....what next?