Seating together on overnight train

[Destiny]

My husband and I will be taking the Coast Starlight from Albany, Oregon to Martinez, California. Due to the fact that we are getting on in Albany rather than Portland or Seattle, we are concerned that we will not be able to sit together if the train is full. I called Amtrak about this concern but no one could say whether we would have to sit separately or not. It is an overnight trip so I would prefer sitting with husband. Any information about this issue would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

 

[the_traveler]

Usually the coach attendant tries to seat couples, groups or families together. Sometimes they may ask a single traveler to move to another seat so a group could sit together. (Most people are glad to comply.

) They usually also set aside seats "for groups of 2 or more" - usually the front portion of the car or the back portion of the car.

Nothing is guaranteed, but I'd say you have a 95% or better chance that the coach attendant will find seats next to each other for you!

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Amtrak can and does reserve and set aside specific seats for groups over a certain size. But when it comes to smaller groups they will suddenly pretend they don't have that ability and that you're simply on your own. Frankly I wish they allowed for reserved seating for everyone.

 

[hello]

I know that you may think how we do it is strange ... but we love riding on the train. We take the train to our son in Eugene once a year ... from LAX to EUG, then on the return, we ride the Cascades from EUG-PDX and then the Coast Starlight from PDX-LAX -- we would rather wait for a late train in PDX than in EUG ... I know you will have a great train ride ... enjoy it!!

 

[IowaGirl]

I have traveled with groups of 12 - 15 and they would not do anything. I tried calling early and asking, but once we got on the train - there was nothing they would do. It was later at night and no one would move. Had a very difficult time even getting sleeping singles to sit up and share the second seat - they wouldn't move. It was a very unpleasant experience to say the least. We were spread out through all the cars. Tried very hard to get the younger kids at least within view of an adult.

Just two people would not be nearly as much of an issue though.

 

[VentureForth]

That's where Amtrak lacks appropriate technology in its reservation system.

It would take some start up costs and training, but imagine how the entire system would become much more efficient with reserved seats, not to mention the customer service benefits.

You can't say it can't be done; JR East has been doing it for years on ALL their long distance trains. I don't want to hear flak about trains being much more complex than airlines - I understand that. Software can handle it. Heck, the Japanese (and the Europeans I presume) have been doing this for over 30 years!

That being said, a typical long distance Japanese train (shinkansen [bullet train] or otherwise) have consists that are typically 10-16 coaches long. They offer first class (green seats, all reserved), and regular class (either reserved-seat assigned, or unreserved). Heck, folks actually PAY MORE to have their seat assigned - a revenue concept.

It would be much more difficult to get the matrix you need to get this to work with an average of 2-3 coach cars and 1-3 sleepers on the long distance trains as the availability is limited.

But the payoffs would be tremendous. With regular consists, you could actually produce signage at rail stations that point people to the coach or sleeper they will get on, eliminating kindergarten lines & time consuming boarding at large stations. Groups booked far in advance could sit together. Want a window seat or aisle seat? Book it. No more seat check tags - your ticket is linked to the manifest and an easy audit for the crew.

 

[the_traveler]

That's where Amtrak lacks appropriate technology in its reservation system.

...............

With regular consists, you could actually produce signage at rail stations that point people to the coach or sleeper they will get on, eliminating kindergarten lines & time consuming boarding at large stations.

Actually Amtrak does already have the technology. When Acela first began, they did offer the passengers to chose their own seats! But over time, some did not like the seats they chose, and moved to another seat. (One thing was maybe that the seat the chose - which in the diagram was facing forward - was on the train facing backwards! And they did not want to ride backwards.) So eventually that system was turned off.

The other thing you said is very important. WITH REGULAR CONSISTS! What happens to the person who choses (say) seat #69 on an Amfleet, but it is bad ordered and replaced with a Horizon coach - and there is no seat #69?

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Actually Amtrak does already have the technology. When Acela first began, they did offer the passengers to chose their own seats! But over time, some did not like the seats they chose, and moved to another seat.

This happens on airplanes from time to time. So long as they're not changing to more expensive seats or taking anybody else's seat I don't see this as a big deal. However, I'd be much more interested in reserving a specific seat on a three day trip than a three hour trip.

One thing was maybe that the seat the chose - which in the diagram was facing forward - was on the train facing backwards! And they did not want to ride backwards. So eventually that system was turned off.

So, in other words, maybe Amtrak does not have the technology necessary to make this happen?

The other thing you said is very important. WITH REGULAR CONSISTS! What happens to the person who choses (say) seat #69 on an Amfleet, but it is bad ordered and replaced with a Horizon coach - and there is no seat #69?

On those occasions they are reassigned a seat that may not be of their choosing. Just as is currently done and just like what happens on airplanes that have a technical problem and are replaced with substantially different models. It's not a perfect solution but it's substantially better than what they currently do.

 

[the_traveler]

On my recent trip last month, I went

coach

on the CL from WAS to CHI. I was never assigned seating on this route out of WAS, so I hurried so I could get a good seat. Because I was the second person to enter the car, I was assigned seat #2! This was the very first row of the car (next to the door to the next car) and had no tray table and the foot rest was unmovable on the wall. Of course, I could not extend my legs under the next row in front of me - because there wasn't one!

And the Acela is normally not turned at the end of it's run. That's why 1/2 of the seats are forward and 1/2 are backwards. So from WAS-BOS, seat #4 may face forward (as shown on the diagram), but from BOS-WAS it's facing backwards! Or it could be the other way too!

That is why you hear announcements saying "The First Class car is on the rear of the train" or "The First Class car is on the front of the train"! You don't know until it's at the station.

 

[Ryan]

One thing was maybe that the seat the chose - which in the diagram was facing forward - was on the train facing backwards! And they did not want to ride backwards. So eventually that system was turned off.

So, in other words, maybe Amtrak does not have the technology necessary to make this happen?

It's not a technology thing, it's a "have the time and ability to make sure that cars are in the consist pointing in the same direction" thing.

There's also the problem of intermediate stops that the airplanes don't have. Say an the Captiol Limited is sold out save for two seats. One person books one of the remaining seats WAS-PGH. Someone else books the other seat PGH-CHI. Anyone coming along after that looking to book WAS-CHI isn't going to be able to get a seat, since there isn't a single seat open for the entire length of the journey. That's a bit of an oversimplified example, that's easy to solve, but when you're looking at hundreds of seats on a train making dozens of stops, you can see that it'll quickly spiral out of control and allowing people to choose their own seat will reduce capacity.

You can do assigned seating and have the computer assign seats in a logical way that will help the problem greatly, but that won't give people the ability to say "I want seat 27 in the 2931 car".

 

[AlanB]

It would take some start up costs and training, but imagine how the entire system would become much more efficient with reserved seats, not to mention the customer service benefits.

As noted by others, Amtrak already has the technology. All that is needed is a minor redesign of the Amtrak.com site and the RailRes software that ticket agents use.

But the payoffs would be tremendous. With regular consists, you could actually produce signage at rail stations that point people to the coach or sleeper they will get on, eliminating kindergarten lines & time consuming boarding at large stations. Groups booked far in advance could sit together. Want a window seat or aisle seat? Book it. No more seat check tags - your ticket is linked to the manifest and an easy audit for the crew.

The only payoff would be that people could pick their seats and that it might speed up boardings.

Otherwise as noted by Ryan, it would result in lost revenue to Amtrak by doing so since they would now be unable to juggle seats like they currently do. Hotels don't assign a room at the time of booking for the very same reason. Most hotels don't assign rooms until the overnight shift immediately prior to checkin.

Additionally while I freely admit that some crews fail at this, a family traveling last minute would almost certainly be unable to get seats together perhaps not even in the same car, whereas when the crew is doing its job this is not a problem with the current system.

 

[AlanB]

(One thing was maybe that the seat the chose - which in the diagram was facing forward - was on the train facing backwards! And they did not want to ride backwards.)

Nope, the diagram showed exactly which way the seat faced and even if you were picking a seat at a table. It was 100% correct all the time. Even though the Acela sets aren't always wyed or looped at the end points, the seats not at tables all rotate 180 degrees and are flipped by the cleaning crews to put the bulk facing forward and in the days of assigned seats to accurately reflect the diagram.

The real problem was that too many just didn't pay attention to things when they were booking and didn't realize that seats were now being assigned, they were used to the Metroliner FC service, or that the bookings were made by a corporate agent who didn't care and/or didn't consult with the person traveling to find out what they wanted.

So between the passenger revolts over assigned seating and the fact that the assigned seating was to tie into the eTicketing and overhead displays on Acela software which never materialized, Amtrak simply turned off the seat picking routines after maybe 6 months to perhaps a year.

 

[AlanB]

Actually Amtrak does already have the technology. When Acela first began, they did offer the passengers to chose their own seats! But over time, some did not like the seats they chose, and moved to another seat.

This happens on airplanes from time to time. So long as they're not changing to more expensive seats or taking anybody else's seat I don't see this as a big deal. However, I'd be much more interested in reserving a specific seat on a three day trip than a three hour trip.

In most cases in Acela FC you're taking someone else’s seat. In fact, I had that happen at least 3 or 4 times where the seat that I had specifically picked was occupied by someone else. Only once could I get the person to move. So once despite my picking a single forward facing seat, I had to ride backwards in a single and on another occasion I ended up in a two seater.

And the FC crews refused to enforce things for fear of losing tips. Needless to say they lost mine!

One thing was maybe that the seat the chose - which in the diagram was facing forward - was on the train facing backwards! And they did not want to ride backwards. So eventually that system was turned off.

So, in other words, maybe Amtrak does not have the technology necessary to make this happen?

Wrong!

As already noted in an earlier post.

 

[VentureForth]

One thing was maybe that the seat the chose - which in the diagram was facing forward - was on the train facing backwards! And they did not want to ride backwards. So eventually that system was turned off.

So, in other words, maybe Amtrak does not have the technology necessary to make this happen?

It's not a technology thing, it's a "have the time and ability to make sure that cars are in the consist pointing in the same direction" thing.

There's also the problem of intermediate stops that the airplanes don't have. Say an the Captiol Limited is sold out save for two seats. One person books one of the remaining seats WAS-PGH. Someone else books the other seat PGH-CHI. Anyone coming along after that looking to book WAS-CHI isn't going to be able to get a seat, since there isn't a single seat open for the entire length of the journey. That's a bit of an oversimplified example, that's easy to solve, but when you're looking at hundreds of seats on a train making dozens of stops, you can see that it'll quickly spiral out of control and allowing people to choose their own seat will reduce capacity.

You can do assigned seating and have the computer assign seats in a logical way that will help the problem greatly, but that won't give people the ability to say "I want seat 27 in the 2931 car".

This is exactly what is not the problem with assigning seats. And, please understand that I'm not necessarily advocating USERS assigning their own seats, but rather the agent, or better yet a computer algorythm. That would avoid much of this scenario. It's done all over the world, and has been for decades. Book early for the best seats, book a family at the last minute, and not only are you going to pay higher prices, but risk sitting apart from each other.

This scenario is also best mitigated by INCREASE FREQUENCY of trains. The more choices, the better opportunities. That's what happened when I took five of us on the shinkansen back in '05. First train didn't have 4 together, so we took one 20 minutes later.

The other thing about Japan (and I presume Europe) is that the train isn't waiting for the coach attendant or conductor to direct the passenger to the proper car. Every platform has signage where their car will stop. They board their car (without a kindergarten line or assistance) and then they find their seat (if reserved).

That being said, there is very little if any baggage service on trains in Japan. Everything better fit in the compartment overhead. There is NO checked luggage which is also a time killer on Amtrak.

 

[The Davy Crockett]

...whereas when the crew is doing its job this is not a problem with the current system.

This is the real problem with the current system, IMHO. Amtrak needs more consistency from crew to crew. If policies for things like seating were more clearly spelled out and followed by all crews, there would be higher 'customer satisfaction' system wide.

 

[AlanB]

That being said, there is very little if any baggage service on trains in Japan. Everything better fit in the compartment overhead. There is NO checked luggage which is also a time killer on Amtrak.

No. More often than not I'll hear the AC radio that he's done in the Bag before the conductor is done boarding the pax. Amtrak is pretty good about getting baggage on and off the train.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

On my recent trip last month, I went

coach

on the CL from WAS to CHI. I was never assigned seating on this route out of WAS, so I hurried so I could get a good seat. Because I was the second person to enter the car, I was assigned seat #2! This was the very first row of the car (next to the door to the next car) and had no tray table and the foot rest was unmovable on the wall. Of course, I could not extend my legs under the next row in front of me - because there wasn't one!

Thanks for the heads-up. I will be traveling on the CL later this year. I'll make a note to NOT be one of the very first ones to board the car.

 

[anir dendroica]

If you do end up seated separately, chances are good that a couple will detrain in Eugene or Klamath Falls, and you can move into their seats. If you remember to take your destination tags (above your seat) with you, the attendant may not even notice. This should work if the train is not full through the southern Oregon/northern California stretch. If the train is full, the attendant may preassign soon-to-be-empty seats to soon-to-be-boarding passengers and you might want to ask him/her if you can switch to a pair of seats when they become available. They will most likely oblige.

I'm traveling Albany to Martinez with my girlfriend on June 19 - will we be on the same train?

~Mark

 

[fredandgingermad]

The first trip i took on Amtrak i got confused by no reserved seating, i get far to used to trains where it is not advised to even travel if you don't have a reserved seat hboy:

Slightly worried now, only on two of the trips that we'll take on Amtrak in July will we board at the starting point, my 4 year old is used to sitting next to strangers (in the UK she still travels free and so is not automatically entitled to a seat) but i'd at least hope i wouldn't have to be to far from her :unsure:

 

[anir dendroica]

The first trip i took on Amtrak i got confused by no reserved seating, i get far to used to trains where it is not advised to even travel if you don't have a reserved seat hboy:

Slightly worried now, only on two of the trips that we'll take on Amtrak in July will we board at the starting point, my 4 year old is used to sitting next to strangers (in the UK she still travels free and so is not automatically entitled to a seat) but i'd at least hope i wouldn't have to be to far from her :unsure:

I can assure you that Amtrak won't separate you from your 4-year-old. They would ask someone to move, or find you both a seat in the lounge temporarily, before they would do that.

Mark

 

[fredandgingermad]

Thats very good to know, thanks

 

[anir dendroica]

With a few exceptions (e.g. accommodating passengers from canceled or delayed trains), Amtrak doesn't overbook like the airlines do. They are also quite concerned about unaccompanied children, to the point of occasionally asking children and young teens to leave the lounge car if unaccompanied (there was a thread about this a while back). I don't work for Amtrak so can't say 100% what they will do, but in the US most parents would throw a fit if asked to sit apart from their young children.

Mark

 

[fredandgingermad]

If it was only a day trip then it'd be ok for me, my 4 year old is far to independent but overnight i'd much rather she be with me and i'm guessing most people would agree with that