Rough Track

[jis]

The sleepers have been moved up from the rear of the LSL. When I boarded west bound on June 26th the first sleeper was right off the elevator that takes you down to the platform. In a few more days I'll be boarding east bound out of CHI and will check in that direction... if I remember that is! :unsure:

Only the Boston Sleeper (the xx20 car) is in the front. The New York sleepers (xx11 and xx12) are in the back just ahead of the New York baggage car, and just behind the Amfleet II Diner-Lite or whatever it is called.

 

[rogers55]

I had a neighbor who was a retired Santa Fe engineer. He traveled by train for free of course but he always said the he was embarrassed by the state of the track. It would not have been tolerated in his day.

My contention has always been that the best single thing we could do to improve service is to fix the track so trains don't have to run at reduced speeds.

 

[taking the cars]

Anywhere in the southern half of Mississippi on the CONO this past January.

 

[Guest_timetableflagman_*]

The old Hoosier Line seemed pretty rough about two years ago. I think it's jointed. The dinette on the CARDINAL did a hula dance going down it!

Our VIEWLINER on the CARDINAL seemed to be bottoming out on a truck, at least at one end, at most switches or dips on two separate trips with two different cars. It reminded me of air-ride suspension giving out.

I've gotten slammed into the bulkhead on a highballing BUILDER, mostly at switches, I think it was where others have noted rough track. I hope that problem has been fixed.

I've been on excursions where, as a rail-riding friend once described it, the coal car "tap-danced on the track". That was in the Appalachians in the '70s. I think re-built track from previous coal derailments was the cause there.

 

[railiner]

Southwest Chief between La Junta and Newton. Very bad.

This may be the case today, but when I rode over that line back around 1970, the Super Chief/El Capitan rolled over it at 90 miles per hour, and even though it was (still is?), jointed rail, the ride was superb, even up in the Hilevel chair cars.

Now that we've heard about some rough spots, where is the smoothest rail line?

 

[jackal]

Standard rail lengths for many years was 39 feet. Now most is rolled in either 78 feet or longer lengths and then welded up. Roughness in welded rail has many causes. Sun kinks are not one of them if the line is still in service. They will derail a train. that is what derailed the autotrain a few years back.
Why 39 feet? Because they would fit in a 40 feet long freight car. Why 78 feet? Becuase a lot of the plants that were set up to weld up rail when it was still produced in 39 ft lengths could work 78 ft rail without having to rearrange the various shearing and grinding points in the layout.

60 feet was and so far as I know is the standard length of a rail stick in the UK.

Thanks for confirming I wasn't going senile. When I read rnizlek's post, I was thinking to myself, "I'm pretty sure they're 39 feet long!" Then I started second-guessing myself until your post.

60 feet was and so far as I know is the standard length of a rail stick in the UK.

You know, I seemed to recall it was about 40 feet, and then Wikipedied it and subsequently edited my post to 60, figuring I was confused. Most have been written by someone over in the UK. Thanks for the clarification, George.

Shoulda gone with your gut!

I've edited the Wikipedia article to reflect George's information. (I thought about including the info about why--to fit in a 40-foot rail car--but unless I can find an official source to confirm that, it's probably too apocryphal for an encyclopedia. If someone else wants to work it in, you're of course more than welcome to.)

 

[DET63]

The only rough track I specifically recall (probably for having ridden over it several times) was at a switch or something in Kalama, WA, between Vancouver and Kelso. I've seen a video of the Cascades Talgo going over a crossing in which the trailing NPCU seemed to nearly bounce off the track. I don't know if it was at the exact same location, however.

Here's the video of the Cascades:

 

[Larry H.]

Agreed that for me the really worst ride ever has been as mentioned during the night after leaving Wisconsin on the Empire Builder. I can't even guess why with all the other fine track the Great Northern has that they have allowed those to awful stretches to remain?

Also in agreement with the fact that on the CZ last year there were places which were quite startling that made one wonder if the cars were indeed going to stay on the track.. Violent jolts that swerved the cars severely. I was very surprised that those existed and as mentioned they were in a number of spots from Denver though to San Francisco.

I live along the CN route and ride it fairly frequently at least 5 hours south of Chicago. There are some grade crossings mostly that cause a lurching effect when your crossing them, but nothing in comparison to the EB or what I experienced on the CZ.

I would also think that standards for passenger rail have slipped greatly over the years and would never have been tolerated by the premier passenger companies, the others never did care.

 

[anir dendroica]

Western Minnesota/eastern North Dakota on the EB.

Yep, that's a very rough area. Between about 11pm and 1am on train #8 and around 6am in the morning on train #7.

One of the worst track I've been on was through White Rock, in Canada. The really bad track combined with the pendulum action of the Talgo trainsets made for a crazy rocking back and forth motion that was extreme.

Oh yes, a very bad stretch.

The EB follows the busy, smooth BNSF northern transcon between Portland/Seattle and Minneapolis (but still a bit bouncy on the frequent crossovers and switches) except for the line between Minot and Fargo. Here nearly all freights take the Surrey Cutoff, bypassing all population centers, while the EB follows a less-used, jointed-rail track through Stanley, Rugby, Devils Lake, and Grand Forks. That is the rough part, as I remember. From Minneapolis to Fargo is smooth, fast, and nearly all double track.

 

[jphjaxfl]

Agreed that for me the really worst ride ever has been as mentioned during the night after leaving Wisconsin on the Empire Builder. I can't even guess why with all the other fine track the Great Northern has that they have allowed those to awful stretches to remain?

The Empire Builder uses the former NP doubletracked route from Minneapolis to Fargo which is also heavily used by frieghts. As another poster stated, it goes back to the former GN line at Fargo north to Grand Forks and west to Minot. Most of the freights travel from Fargo to Minot through New Rockford which is a more direct route. GN actually had two lines between Minneapolis and Fargo with one being via Willmar and Breckenridge which was used by the Empire Builder until around 1979 and the second being via St. Cloud and Alexandria. All 3 lines from Minneapolis to Fargo had passenger service immediately before Amtrak started in 1971. Occasionally the Empire Builder would used the Alexandria line as a reroute in the early and mid 1970s. Its too bad they don't dedicate one of the 3 routes to Amtrak.

 

[jphjaxfl]

The worst track I experienced on Amtrak is from Kankakee, Ill to Indianpolis and Indianapolis to Louisville on the South Wind later Floridian. There were frequent slow orders for 10MPH. Often the train would take 12 to 14 hours to cross Indiana which has a lot to do with the train being discontinued. Amtrak brought back the KY Cardinal on the Indianapolis Louisville section for a while but nothing was done to improve the tracks.

I don't know how the Dining Car waiters did it with the track being so bad. You knew better than to more than half fill your coffee cup. The sad thing is only 5 years prior to Amtrak in 1966, the Southwind made it from Chicago Union Station to Louisville Union Station via Logansport and Indianapolis in just 6 1/2 hours with 3 intermediate stops and 2 flag stops and no slow orders.

 

[Guest_timetableflagman_*]

Some of the smoothest track I've ridden was on NS's on the CAROLINIAN/PALMETTO route. I remember BNSF's EMPIRE BUILDER route (GN) as having mostly smooth track except for the occassional rough spots mentioned. It seems that some switches caused most of the jolts, and most were what I'd consider normal, minor jiggles.

I've noticed that even welded rail can have seemingly un-explainable rough spots, even where there is no visible sign of anything but smoothness. I guess it's just one of those things. It doesn't take much to cause noticeable roughness. Yet, some places where it's a visible mystery how a train can run on the track; there's nothing noticeable from how it rides over it.

Highways have some similar characteristics. It does seem that someone in charge could simply run over a rough spot and inspect to see what little could be done to smooth it out. An otherwise invisible defect in surface probably doesn't need much to smooth it. Curves, even gentle ones, or amount of superelevation, grades and such can appear to have subtle, yet profound, compounding effects on otherwise un-noticeable irregularities.

 

[volkris]

You know, I bet that rough track doesn't feel so rough.... in a Turboliner

 

[George Harris]

Standard rail lengths for many years was 39 feet. Now most is rolled in either 78 feet or longer lengths and then welded up. Roughness in welded rail has many causes. Sun kinks are not one of them if the line is still in service. They will derail a train. that is what derailed the autotrain a few years back.
Why 39 feet? Because they would fit in a 40 feet long freight car. Why 78 feet? Becuase a lot of the plants that were set up to weld up rail when it was still produced in 39 ft lengths could work 78 ft rail without having to rearrange the various shearing and grinding points in the layout.

60 feet was and so far as I know is the standard length of a rail stick in the UK.

George;

I'm not in this for an argument but I've drug a train over a sun kink at night and never realized how bad it really was. The roadmaster said he didn't see how we stayed on the track. Sure most trains derail but I have had fellow engineers pull light power and a caboose over them and stay on the rail. Naturally, the track is pulled out of service once the defect is detected but sometimes that only happens when a train discovers it running down the rails. Most do NOT set red blocks unless they break a bonding wire.

Sometimes it is amazing what does stay on the rail. Usually if it is a little one the front part will make it, and maybe even the whole train if going slow, but usually if a small one the sideways forces of the wheels going through it will make it larger with each passing wheel until either a wheel climbs the rail or the rail breaks. Light power and a caboose going slow I can definitely believe.

Back in my railroad survey days, we were doing a survey for replacement of a about 10 to 12 bent wood trestle on an 8 degree curve on a 25 mph branch. Speed board said 10 mph over the bridge. Of course one of the twice a day trains comes along when we were about mid bridge. Flagmen? track time? at that time and place it was assumed the we had enough smarts to not be hit by a train when it came, so we never had track time granted. Anyway, we grabbed instrument and walked quick to the end, down the bank and under the bridge. When the engine hit the bridge the pile dropped about 6 inches. Looking along the bridge the whole thing was moving up and down with each truck. We did not know whether it was best to stay under it to avoid being hit by cars in case the train derailed, or run out into the briars so as to not be under the bridge in case in collapsed.

 

[MikeM]

You know, I bet that rough track doesn't feel so rough.... in a Turboliner

Oh, you're just a glutton for abuse! :blink:

 

[Green Maned Lion]

One time on the Auto Train he hit something involving the track- I have no idea what- and I was just about to walk out of the diner. We jolted so hard I almost fell- and I'm a seasoned subway rider who hates holding on to things. I don't fall easily. And then for one brief moment, I was looking at the end-light of the right side rearof the Superliner sleeper in front of me. The little shade thingies they pull up had knocked off of each other and rolled themselves up. I was half expecting to hear us go into emergancy, it was so bad. But that was the last I heard of the incident. I have no idea what caused that, but that is for sure the roughest amtrak ride I've ever had.

 

[Railroad Bill]

My two votes for roughest track we have been on.

The Texas Eagle in Arkansas. What a rough night trying to sleep through that!! :angry:

Next is the SWChief eastern Colorado and across western and central Kansas. Another nearly sleepless night!

 

[rile42]

A couple of years ago, there was such a bad "bump" in the Elkart region that the diner car attendants warned everyone in the car to be prepared for the bump. In fact, if I recall correctly, everyone in the dining car found a seat to sit in before hitting it. Oh the other hand, I might have that confused with being in emergency braking one time.

One of the worst sections of track I've experienced was the track between Harrisburg and Philly. I think that has all been fixed though by now.

 

[Gord]

Maple Leaf anywhere around Niagara Falls NY, particularly once you come off the CSX main to get on the connecting track to Niagara Falls, Canada.

39' foot jointed rail, battered rail ends, low joints, minimal maintenance... Good thing they only do 10 mph through this section.

Gord

 

[sky12065]

The sleepers have been moved up from the rear of the LSL. When I boarded west bound on June 26th the first sleeper was right off the elevator that takes you down to the platform. In a few more days I'll be boarding east bound out of CHI and will check in that direction... if I remember that is! :unsure:

Only the Boston Sleeper (the xx20 car) is in the front. The New York sleepers (xx11 and xx12) are in the back just ahead of the New York baggage car, and just behind the Amfleet II Diner-Lite or whatever it is called.

jis & Peter,

On Jun 26th I boarded the NY sleeper 4910 westbound and it was just slightly to the right (toward front of train) when we got off the elevator. Last year when I boarded it was way up in the front.

On Jul 12 (yesterday or I should say Friday) I boarded the Boston 4820 east bound and it was the third car on the consist behind the engine and baggage car. (see my full story of the LSL Boarding elsewhere in this topic)

 

[Guest_timetableflagman_*]

Actually, the best sleep I've had on a train was when the sleeping car was rocking. I actually am more likely to wake up at stops or when it's smooth. ...Sort of the cradle effect, I guess. I know children can be rocked to sleep by the train's motion.

 

[DET63]

Video of CZ #6 in Iowa. Looks like it was running over some rather rough track:

 

[George Harris]

Some of the smoothest track I've ridden was on NS's on the CAROLINIAN/PALMETTO route.

The state of North Carolina has spent quite a bit of money to get the ex Southern branch between Greensboro and Raleigh up to a 79 mph railroad.

 

[Shawn]

***Yes this is one, but the best track to eat a wall is at the Toutle River Bridge, Main 2...CP Toutle I believe it is. OUCH!

The only rough track I specifically recall (probably for having ridden over it several times) was at a switch or something in Kalama, WA, between Vancouver and Kelso. I've seen a video of the Cascades Talgo going over a crossing in which the trailing NPCU seemed to nearly bounce off the track. I don't know if it was at the exact same location, however.
Here's the video of the Cascades:

 

[Shawn]

Anyone else ever notice that on the CP portion of the EB, every grade crossing seems to have a sharp bump at each side of the crossing? It is enough to jam your head...it sucks!